Nova Scotia lobster war

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
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Nova Scotia lobster fishers are turning violent in protest over an early opening for native fishers based on a 20 year old supreme court decision. They are publicly assaulting native leaders and have burned down a packing plant that dared to do business with the natives. They set fire to a vehicle belonging to a native leader. People are afraid for their lives.
What they have managed to do is make sure that this native fishery is going to be a permanent.
There is no other choice now. If they were to suspend the fishery and cancel it for coming years it would set a terrible precedent that all you have to do is commit a few terrorist acts and you get your way.
It would actually be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
18,515
4,241
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
It is a goat rodeo. I agree with you. http://www.cjme.com/2020/10/18/n-s-...ate-livelihood-as-fishing-dispute-boils-over/

I'm from SK and I'm on the outside of this, but this is how I'm understanding this from the outside looking in. Lobsters mate and lay their eggs, etc...in the off-season from catching them (An adult lobster can lay up to 100,000 eggs, etc... depending on the size of the female). The Lobster Season on much of the East Coast is from the end of November until the last week in May for that reason.

HALIFAX — Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil is urging Ottawa to define what constitutes legal harvesting in a “moderate livelihood” fishery, after a dispute about Indigenous fishing treaty rights boiled over on the weekend. The Supreme Court of Canada issued a landmark decision in 1999 that said the Mi’qmaq and Maliseet people of Atlantic Canada and the Gaspe region of Quebec have a right to earn a “moderate livelihood” from fishing. Someone can go off about a "Traditional Commercial Out-Of-Season Lobster Industry, etc..." but lets see this one out...as sustenance hunting (or fishing, or whatever catching Lobsters would be called) and a commercial operation would be two different critters I'm assuming. Having a two tier system based upon race doesn't lead to harmony as we've seen over & over but that's where things are at. Tension has been building for weeks between Indigenous and non-Indigenous lobster fishers in southwest N.S.

Many non-Indigenous critics, however, cite a clarification issued by the court, stating the treaty rights would be subject to federal regulations. Commercial fishermen have also expressed concern with the conservation of fish and lobster stocks. Yet others have argued that commercial fishing seasons are based on the economy and trade, and the scale of the small Indigenous fishery doesn’t impact conservation. The dispute has become so heated that the head of a Maritime Fishermen’s Union local resigned, citing harassment and intimidation against himself and his family.

A spokesperson for the Maritime Fishermen's Union, Ruth Innis, describes what is happening in the community as anarchy – noting threats are being hurled from both sides. Innis says commercial fishermen have been vilified but says they’re not. The Maritime Fisherman’s Union is now calling on Ottawa to appoint an independent mediator to bring everyone to the table. “If the Government of Canada was doing their job, this would not be happening – communities would be safe, they would be living in peace,” says Innis. “Maybe we should ask Prime Minister Trudeau if he’s happy that his Canadian families are living in fear.”

The Gov't of Canada is too busy doing this though: http://www.cjme.com/2020/10/15/oppo...iberal-filibuster-over-we-documents-demand-2/

Proroguing & Filibustering to hide from the depths of the latest Liberal Scandal that we know some about so far: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/showthread.php?t=168103&page=15

Right now, Liberal MPs are filibustering two House committees over disputes about how to proceed with inquiries into the government's affairs. As a result, the Conservatives now might ask the House on Tuesday to establish the aforementioned "anti-corruption committee."

This committee would pursue several questions the Conservatives have about the government's handling of pandemic-related programs, including the WE Charity affair and allegations that the husband of Trudeau's chief of staff lobbied the government about one program. It also would demand disclosure of any internal government correspondence about the government's decision to prorogue Parliament. One of the other demands for documents in the Conservative motion — covering 12 years of records from the private agency that handled public speaking appearances by Trudeau, his wife, mother and brother — mirrors an order that was passed by a House committee this summer. But that previous order expired when Trudeau had Parliament prorogued. There's also an active dispute over whether government officials went too far in redacting information from some documents that have been turned over already. These 5000 or so redacted documents where released to the investigating committees AFTER Trudeau had Parliament prorogued in the spirit of openness & honesty, etc...


The Liberals are countering the Conservative motion with their own proposal to establish a special committee that would look at all pandemic-related spending by the government — which is similar to an idea already floated by the NDP. Such a committee could end up looking into some of the same things the Conservatives want to examine (though it's not clear how the Liberals would deal with outstanding demands for document disclosure) but it would take a broader view that the Liberal Party would control even in their minority position. Presumably, it also wouldn't be called the "anti-corruption committee." http://ipolitics.ca/2020/10/15/libs...positions-efforts-to-reopen-we-charity-probe/
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
25,041
5,699
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B.C.
It is a goat rodeo. I agree with you. http://www.cjme.com/2020/10/18/n-s-...ate-livelihood-as-fishing-dispute-boils-over/

I'm from SK and I'm on the outside of this, but this is how I'm understanding this from the outside looking in. Lobsters mate and lay their eggs, etc...in the off-season from catching them (An adult lobster can lay up to 100,000 eggs, etc... depending on the size of the female). The Lobster Season on much of the East Coast is from the end of November until the last week in May for that reason.

HALIFAX — Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil is urging Ottawa to define what constitutes legal harvesting in a “moderate livelihood” fishery, after a dispute about Indigenous fishing treaty rights boiled over on the weekend. The Supreme Court of Canada issued a landmark decision in 1999 that said the Mi’qmaq and Maliseet people of Atlantic Canada and the Gaspe region of Quebec have a right to earn a “moderate livelihood” from fishing. Someone can go off about a "Traditional Commercial Out-Of-Season Lobster Industry, etc..." but lets see this one out...as sustenance hunting (or fishing, or whatever catching Lobsters would be called) and a commercial operation would be two different critters I'm assuming. Having a two tier system based upon race doesn't lead to harmony as we've seen over & over but that's where things are at. Tension has been building for weeks between Indigenous and non-Indigenous lobster fishers in southwest N.S.

Many non-Indigenous critics, however, cite a clarification issued by the court, stating the treaty rights would be subject to federal regulations. Commercial fishermen have also expressed concern with the conservation of fish and lobster stocks. Yet others have argued that commercial fishing seasons are based on the economy and trade, and the scale of the small Indigenous fishery doesn’t impact conservation. The dispute has become so heated that the head of a Maritime Fishermen’s Union local resigned, citing harassment and intimidation against himself and his family.

A spokesperson for the Maritime Fishermen's Union, Ruth Innis, describes what is happening in the community as anarchy – noting threats are being hurled from both sides. Innis says commercial fishermen have been vilified but says they’re not. The Maritime Fisherman’s Union is now calling on Ottawa to appoint an independent mediator to bring everyone to the table. “If the Government of Canada was doing their job, this would not be happening – communities would be safe, they would be living in peace,” says Innis. “Maybe we should ask Prime Minister Trudeau if he’s happy that his Canadian families are living in fear.”

The Gov't of Canada is too busy doing this though: http://www.cjme.com/2020/10/15/oppo...iberal-filibuster-over-we-documents-demand-2/

Proroguing & Filibustering to hide from the depths of the latest Liberal Scandal that we know some about so far: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/showthread.php?t=168103&page=15

Right now, Liberal MPs are filibustering two House committees over disputes about how to proceed with inquiries into the government's affairs. As a result, the Conservatives now might ask the House on Tuesday to establish the aforementioned "anti-corruption committee."

This committee would pursue several questions the Conservatives have about the government's handling of pandemic-related programs, including the WE Charity affair and allegations that the husband of Trudeau's chief of staff lobbied the government about one program. It also would demand disclosure of any internal government correspondence about the government's decision to prorogue Parliament. One of the other demands for documents in the Conservative motion — covering 12 years of records from the private agency that handled public speaking appearances by Trudeau, his wife, mother and brother — mirrors an order that was passed by a House committee this summer. But that previous order expired when Trudeau had Parliament prorogued. There's also an active dispute over whether government officials went too far in redacting information from some documents that have been turned over already. These 5000 or so redacted documents where released to the investigating committees AFTER Trudeau had Parliament prorogued in the spirit of openness & honesty, etc...


The Liberals are countering the Conservative motion with their own proposal to establish a special committee that would look at all pandemic-related spending by the government — which is similar to an idea already floated by the NDP. Such a committee could end up looking into some of the same things the Conservatives want to examine (though it's not clear how the Liberals would deal with outstanding demands for document disclosure) but it would take a broader view that the Liberal Party would control even in their minority position. Presumably, it also wouldn't be called the "anti-corruption committee." http://ipolitics.ca/2020/10/15/libs...positions-efforts-to-reopen-we-charity-probe/
Well Rob well I agree with you about Trudeau and his Liberal government , this comes down to a totally different issue . The Department of Fisheries and Oceans who regulate this fishery has a mandate of bilingual speakers in senior management, hence are filled with primarily people from Quebec with little if any experience in fishery management. We have similar problems on the west coast .
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,331
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Vancouver Island
Nova Scotia lobster fishers are turning violent in protest over an early opening for native fishers based on a 20 year old supreme court decision. They are publicly assaulting native leaders and have burned down a packing plant that dared to do business with the natives. They set fire to a vehicle belonging to a native leader. People are afraid for their lives.
What they have managed to do is make sure that this native fishery is going to be a permanent.
There is no other choice now. If they were to suspend the fishery and cancel it for coming years it would set a terrible precedent that all you have to do is commit a few terrorist acts and you get your way.
It would actually be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Been working well for the indians for the past 20 years. About time they got some of their own back.
Quite simply we cannot even pretend to have a democracy when rights are based on skin colour.
Then again the left does not believe in democracy or rights anyway.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
50,959
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Washington DC
Been working well for the indians for the past 20 years. About time they got some of their own back.
Quite simply we cannot even pretend to have a democracy when rights are based on skin colour.
Then again the left does not believe in democracy or rights anyway.
Obviously, neither does the right.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,057
4,528
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Olympus Mons
Nova Scotia lobster fishers are turning violent in protest over an early opening for native fishers based on a 20 year old supreme court decision. They are publicly assaulting native leaders and have burned down a packing plant that dared to do business with the natives. They set fire to a vehicle belonging to a native leader. People are afraid for their lives.
What they have managed to do is make sure that this native fishery is going to be a permanent.
There is no other choice now. If they were to suspend the fishery and cancel it for coming years it would set a terrible precedent that all you have to do is commit a few terrorist acts and you get your way.
You mean like all the riots for "justice" in the US? I agree.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
191
63
Nakusp, BC
Of course. The right is beyond error or question. I'm sure Jesus loves them.
Partisan politics create dickheads on both sides. They don't realize that both wings are attached to the same bird and that the division was designed to divide and conquer. I say, abolish party politics. All politicians should be independents and forced to cooperate and work for the greater good.
 

Serryah

Senate Member
Dec 3, 2008
7,108
1,356
113
New Brunswick
Though I haven't followed this closely, this is what I understand of some of the situation upon hearing from others.

1. This was legally decided by the SCOC years ago.
2. The Natives have a right to make a living off fishing.
3. The protestors are pissed because Natives are 'undercutting' "their" deals.
4. The fishers make LOTS of cash because what isn't bought by foreign interests/Asia, the rest is mostly sent to the US.
5. The building burnt down that also had a man injured and sent to hospital? Didn't have native lobster in it at all, rather leftover stocks from the local fishermen. AKA they burned their OWN hard work, but because a Native guy was there, they assumed shit.
6. I'm sure this'll piss off the Western contingent here - fishermen don't work all year, they're part of the seasonal workers of the Maritimes. When their season is done, a good majority do NOT work anywhere else. Instead they collect EI. FYI, a lot of us locals do NOT like this, nor do we think it's fair what so ever and when there was push to change how that worked, the seasonal workers pushed back (though TBH I don't know where it stands now; I THINK seasonal workers do have to go find work beyond their seasons though). But this also leads to another discussion about the Maritimes I doubt anyone else gives a shit about so...
7. If you drove through a community where there are fishermen, you will see hundred thousand dollar plus homes, trucks, the boat, all the toys, etc. Well maintained. You won't see very many 'poor' fishermen. Just general info.
8. I won't disagree that some Natives are absolute shits about all this, but overall, this IS a race thing, where the Natives are fighting against these "poor white boy" fishermen for, again, being undercut. But fair is fair, is it not?

Personally I didn't really have thoughts about this until the burning down of the storage and one person was sent to hospital. THAT is going too far and all that blame falls on the side of the fishermen who burned the place down. So fuk em.

Also the Feds not doing SHIT to solve the issue and lack of the RCMP even protecting people only adds to the problem.

And all this is before you really do bring up 'treaty rights'.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
20,707
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Twin Moose Creek
Just this specific case. Considering treaties were made, and should be honored. I am under the impression that the Natives are residing on the reserve. If they live in Halifax, or move off the reserve, they should lose their status.

Well they should move back to Newfoundland then, but the Mi'kmaq got landless rights which allowed them to claim parts of the other areas on the East coast as their own

Mi'kmaq Organizations and Land Claims
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
102,796
7,816
113
Moccasin Flats
Partisan politics create dickheads on both sides. They don't realize that both wings are attached to the same bird and that the division was designed to divide and conquer. I say, abolish party politics. All politicians should be independents and forced to cooperate and work for the greater good.
Your scenario requires a 3rd that does the dividing and conquering. Whom might that be?