Nova Scotia lobster war

[taxslave]

Just this specific case. Considering treaties were made, and should be honored. I am under the impression that the Natives are residing on the reserve. If they live in Halifax, or move off the reserve, they should lose their status.

Doesn't work that way. They even get to vote in band elections when living off Rez.

 

[taxslave]

Partisan politics create dickheads on both sides. They don't realize that both wings are attached to the same bird and that the division was designed to divide and conquer. I say, abolish party politics. All politicians should be independents and forced to cooperate and work for the greater good.

Not a bad idea. Got an idea on how to elect a leader? And how many have to agree on a subject to call it a majority?

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Though I haven't followed this closely, this is what I understand of some of the situation upon hearing from others.

1. This was legally decided by the SCOC years ago.
2. The Natives have a right to make a living off fishing.
3. The protestors are pissed because Natives are 'undercutting' "their" deals.

I think what seems to be also fueling it is what was granted the natives in the treaty. Likely wording of sustenance fishing or fishing for their food as they had done at the treaty signing. Certainly selling their catches for profit was not considered when the treaties were signed. If they are selling for profit, they might also be fishing more and endangering the whole flock of lobsters they all fish from.



But perhaps the immediate issue could be solved by forcing the natives not to undercut deals and sell the lobster at fair market value. Of course this would involved the Lieberals in Ottawa to actually get off their fat asses and do something which I don't see happening even though I think this whole situation is their fault.

 

[petros]

I dont recognize fascist race based Governments.

 

[taxslave]

Though I haven't followed this closely, this is what I understand of some of the situation upon hearing from others.
1. This was legally decided by the SCOC years ago.
2. The Natives have a right to make a living off fishing.
3. The protestors are pissed because Natives are 'undercutting' "their" deals.
4. The fishers make LOTS of cash because what isn't bought by foreign interests/Asia, the rest is mostly sent to the US.
5. The building burnt down that also had a man injured and sent to hospital? Didn't have native lobster in it at all, rather leftover stocks from the local fishermen. AKA they burned their OWN hard work, but because a Native guy was there, they assumed shit.
6. I'm sure this'll piss off the Western contingent here - fishermen don't work all year, they're part of the seasonal workers of the Maritimes. When their season is done, a good majority do NOT work anywhere else. Instead they collect EI. FYI, a lot of us locals do NOT like this, nor do we think it's fair what so ever and when there was push to change how that worked, the seasonal workers pushed back (though TBH I don't know where it stands now; I THINK seasonal workers do have to go find work beyond their seasons though). But this also leads to another discussion about the Maritimes I doubt anyone else gives a shit about so...
7. If you drove through a community where there are fishermen, you will see hundred thousand dollar plus homes, trucks, the boat, all the toys, etc. Well maintained. You won't see very many 'poor' fishermen. Just general info.
8. I won't disagree that some Natives are absolute shits about all this, but overall, this IS a race thing, where the Natives are fighting against these "poor white boy" fishermen for, again, being undercut. But fair is fair, is it not?
Personally I didn't really have thoughts about this until the burning down of the storage and one person was sent to hospital. THAT is going too far and all that blame falls on the side of the fishermen who burned the place down. So fuk em.
Also the Feds not doing SHIT to solve the issue and lack of the RCMP even protecting people only adds to the problem.
And all this is before you really do bring up 'treaty rights'.

Ocean fishing is Federal jurisdiction. The same Easterners make the rules for us and are mostly the same other than the fishery specific ones.
It is only a race thing because the Eastern controlled Federal government has made it that way.

 

[taxslave]

I dont recognize fascist race based Governments.

SO You will not be voting Liberal in the next Federal election?

 

[petros]

From what I remember, if there are too many lobster, the cod suffer, if too many cod the lobsters suffer.

What is the current state of that balance?

 

[pgs]

I disagree with Indigenous people keeping their status once they leave the Reserves, and settle and assimilate in the city or towns outsides their reserve.

Come now when they leave the reserve for the city they keep an on reserve address . Taxes you know .

 

[Hoid]

I think what seems to be also fueling it is what was granted the natives in the treaty. Likely wording of sustenance fishing or fishing for their food as they had done at the treaty signing..

There is no treaty.

It was a court case that said it was legal for them to earn a living in the same way that they always had. That was 21 years ago.

Please, deny the right thing.

 

[Twin_Moose]

There is no treaty.
It was a court case that said it was legal for them to earn a living in the same way that they always had. That was 21 years ago.
Please, deny the right thing.

Earn a moderate living within Federal regulations, what are the federal lobster fishing regulations? What seasons and limits are set Federally?

Another Trudie failure for not stepping in to sort this out before it went out of control.

 

[petros]

If they want to earn a good buck, raise "funeral deer" for their feasts.

 

[Jinentonix]

Do you support violence and property destruction in general or just when racists do it?

Do you support race-based laws as well? I find it funny that you created a thread about Democracy and yet seem clueless to the fact that race-based laws are undemocratic. And no, the idiots who burned down the fish plant went about things the entirely wrong way.


But you know, I guess some Canadians have been watching and learning from all the "peaceful" riots in the US. Act like an asshole and you get your way, right?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Do you support race-based laws as well?

Nope. I'm on record as advocating consistently for no special treatment.

I take it from your answer to my question that you're OK with illegal violence if the White people think they're being treated unfairly.

I find it funny that you created a thread about Democracy and yet seem clueless to the fact that race-based laws are undemocratic.

How do you figure? Was the United States, for example, not a democracy until 1924? And if not, what was it 1776-1924?

And no, the idiots who burned down the fish plant went about things the entirely wrong way.
But you know, I guess some Canadians have been watching and learning from all the "peaceful" riots in the US. Act like an asshole and you get your way, right?

Well, I suppose that's one excuse for your bad behavior. "People in another country did it, so I figured it was OK."

That's a level of mental and moral retardation I have trouble getting my head around. So I guess it works for you.

 

[Hoid]

Here is the real story: indigenous leaders in Nova Scotia struggling to prevent Mohawk Warrior response to racist attacks in Nova Scotia.

People are sadly mistaken if they think you can commit violence against indigenous people without consequence.

 

[bill barilko]

If you look closely at the debris from the arson it shows what was burned was boxes of Mackerel-aka Lobster bait not Lobster at all.

Sorry to interject some reality into this discussion but some of you really need comprehension lessons.

 

[Hoid]

If you look closely at the debris from the arson it shows what was burned was boxes of Mackerel-aka Lobster bait not Lobster at all.

Sorry to interject some reality into this discussion but some of you really need comprehension lessons.

Try as I might I can make no sense of your enlightening post, as is usual in your case.

Who said there was lobster there?

How is it that you are not on my ignore list?

 

[Serryah]

Interesting comment about the whole issue.

Christine Dowling for District 4, Inverness County


My step-father fished lobster in the Bras d'Or Lakes with his father on a “Class B” license. Every fishing season, they would set 83 traps in Area 27. I remember my step-father leaving the house before 3 a.m. usually getting back to the wharf by lunchtime. A good catch day for them would total around 100lbs. He worked hard those days, because he had to pull each trap from the water by hand, as they only had a small boat with no special hauling equipment. Many nights he fell asleep reading to my two younger sisters. The extra income helped support our family of 7, as well as supplement his father's pension. But let me tell you, no one is getting rich on 83 lobster traps.

Historically, Mi'kmaq have fished the waters, year round, to feed and support their families. It was done with respect for the environment, so that it would sustain them for years to come. And then European settlers decided that it needed to be regulated in order to preserve fish stocks. Suddenly, that option to support their families was taken from the Mi'kmaq. Without giving an alternative option. Without taking in to consideration that this was their livelihood. Without consultation or consideration.

21 years ago, the Supreme Court of Canada affirmed a treaty right to hunt, fish and gather in pursuit of a ‘moderate livelihood’, arising out of the Peace and Friendship Treaties of 1760 and 1761. Since 1999, there has not been a description of what makes a 'moderate livelihood'. I'll bet it should include more than 50 lobster traps in LFA 34. There are already close to one thousand lobster licenses in that area, one of the biggest money making lobster fisheries in Atlantic Canada. The Sipekne'katik First Nation has started their own licensing body. Which they have every right to do under Treaty Law. From my understanding, they are taking a tiered approach.....start with 5 licenses at 50 traps each and monitor that before issuing more licenses or increases to the number of traps allowable. Doesn't that seem like an intelligent, sustainable approach? The racist backlash they (and Mi'Kmaq across Nova Scotia) are facing right now is far from intelligent.

Nova Scotia, we need to do better. The treaties were signed by our forefathers, but carried no expiration date. We are still bound by those promises. First Nations should no longer have to wait for their livelihood to be defined by the Canadian Government. It's been 21 years since the R. v. Marshall decision, but almost 260 years since the treaties were signed. I don't blame the Sipekne'katik First Nation for taking matters into their own hands.

 

[pgs]

Try as I might I can make no sense of your enlightening post, as is usual in your case.

Who said there was lobster there?

How is it that you are not on my ignore list?

The kiss of death Bill , Hoids ignore list , you must be devastated.

 

[Hoid]

Interesting comment about the whole issue.

Christine Dowling for District 4, Inverness County


My step-father fished lobster in the Bras d'Or Lakes with his father on a “Class B” license. Every fishing season, they would set 83 traps in Area 27. I remember my step-father leaving the house before 3 a.m. usually getting back to the wharf by lunchtime. A good catch day for them would total around 100lbs. He worked hard those days, because he had to pull each trap from the water by hand, as they only had a small boat with no special hauling equipment. Many nights he fell asleep reading to my two younger sisters. The extra income helped support our family of 7, as well as supplement his father's pension. But let me tell you, no one is getting rich on 83 lobster traps.

Historically, Mi'kmaq have fished the waters, year round, to feed and support their families. It was done with respect for the environment, so that it would sustain them for years to come. And then European settlers decided that it needed to be regulated in order to preserve fish stocks. Suddenly, that option to support their families was taken from the Mi'kmaq. Without giving an alternative option. Without taking in to consideration that this was their livelihood. Without consultation or consideration.

21 years ago, the Supreme Court of Canada affirmed a treaty right to hunt, fish and gather in pursuit of a ‘moderate livelihood’, arising out of the Peace and Friendship Treaties of 1760 and 1761. Since 1999, there has not been a description of what makes a 'moderate livelihood'. I'll bet it should include more than 50 lobster traps in LFA 34. There are already close to one thousand lobster licenses in that area, one of the biggest money making lobster fisheries in Atlantic Canada. The Sipekne'katik First Nation has started their own licensing body. Which they have every right to do under Treaty Law. From my understanding, they are taking a tiered approach.....start with 5 licenses at 50 traps each and monitor that before issuing more licenses or increases to the number of traps allowable. Doesn't that seem like an intelligent, sustainable approach? The racist backlash they (and Mi'Kmaq across Nova Scotia) are facing right now is far from intelligent.

Nova Scotia, we need to do better. The treaties were signed by our forefathers, but carried no expiration date. We are still bound by those promises. First Nations should no longer have to wait for their livelihood to be defined by the Canadian Government. It's been 21 years since the R. v. Marshall decision, but almost 260 years since the treaties were signed. I don't blame the Sipekne'katik First Nation for taking matters into their own hands.

The numbers are the numbers.

There are licenses in Nova Scotia for 400,000 traps,

900,000 in the maritimes as a whole.

Also you can throw Maine into the equation with about 3 million traps and year round fishing.

And this dispute is over 550 traps in an area nobody can fish anyway.

 

[Hoid]

^this what makes the claims of trying to protect the fishery so disingenuous.

if you are really concerned about protecting Nova Scotia lobster stock lets go to work on those 400,000 traps that white guys will be setting.....and suddenly conservation is not really the issue