National Child care, a reason to do away with provinces

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Your tax dollars should, in part, be (and the latest federal budget really sucks on this) going towards a National Daycare Program. Whether you use the program or not is immaterial because it is something that is wanted and needed by your fellow citizens.

 

[tibear]

Why should parents have the "right" to a subsidized daycare program??

All of the other programs provide a necessary service for the public, however I don't see any public benefit to a subsidized daycare program. Could you explain how I benefit from a subsidized daycare?? Unlike healthcare and roads that everyone uses at one time or another, the subsidized daycare is only of benefit to people who have children who choose to work outside the home.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Do you know how many people I know who choose to work, tibear? None. I don't know one solitary person on this planet who doesn't have to work, but does anyway.

Most people work to maintain a certain standard of living for their families. In recent years, due largely to corporatists setting the political agenda, more and more people have been entering the workforce. Stay at home parents are now the exception rather than the rule.

We cannot afford to pay them enough to maintain their present standard of living, nor is there an equitable way top decide who gets how much when. That leaves us the option of providing a National Childcare Program or leaving the nation's children in some very vulnerable positions. Given the fact that the poorest, as always, suffer the most under those conditionsm it isn't really much of an option.

June Cleaver was a myth based on a society that never existed in the first place, tibear. Our present society is so far removed from the one that created the myth in the first place that to consider June Cleaver any sort of standard at all is laughable.

 

[tibear]

The main problem I have with your entire statement is that for some reason, everyone has to have the same standard of living.

Many people choose to stay at home with their children and sacrifice their standard of living for a time because the development of their children is so important to them.

I will acknowledge that there are some situations, like single parents, that don't have that luxury. However, the vast majority of people can choose to have a lower standard of living for a brief period of time. If you can't afford the morgage without two jobs, then perhaps your living in too large a home.

Its all a matter of choice.

As I've stated in other threads, I know many families with as many as 10 children where only one parent works outside the home. They have happy and healthy families. They certainly don't have the later vehicle or the million dollar home but they have what they need, not necessarily what they want.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

I know plenty of families where if one or the other were to quit work they would lose half of their income. These aren't wealthy people, they are working class people in working class neighbourhoods. They don't own million dollar homes and don't buy new cars.

Losing half of their income represents moving to a poorer neighbourhood with worse schools. It means the kids not being in sports or ballet or whatever after-school activity they are involved in. It means the kids might not be able to go to university. It means poverty.

The government cannot afford to make up that kind of shortfall for each and every family. The corporations are the ones who allowed wage stagnation to bring us to this point, so they aren't going to pick up the slack. That leaves National Child Care, tibear.

You know all those times you voted Conservative? Now you are reaping what you sowed.

 

[tibear]

RB,

So now your telling me that a poorer neighbourhood has a worse school. You and I know that a bunch of BS. There are great school in poor neighbourhoods and poor school in rich neighbourhoods.

Your arguements simply don't wash!! I know many families where they live on an income of 40K for a family of 9. The kids are involved in all kinds of activities because the community clubs ensure everyone has a chance to play regardless of income. All of these kids attend university on student loans.

They believe in standing on their own two feet and not relying on others to support them. Sure they have debts when they graduate, so did I, that's life. You can't wait for the government to always pick up the tab for you.

People make choices all of the time. If you can't afford daycare then sell one of your SUV's, move into a smaller home or don't go out as often.

As I stated earlier, single parents and some very few cases of two parent families are exceptions. These people really do have to work to make ends meet. However, before that is done, the lifestyle choices should be made by the parents. Just like all social assistance people must open up their books and their posessions before getting aid, the same should be done for subsidized daycare. Prove that you've done everything you can to make ends meet and if you can't then we'll help. Otherwise, stand on your own two feet.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Compare an inner-city school to a suburban one, Tibear. You know as well as I do that the suburban school provides a safer learning environment with more resources. Ask any educator.

The same goes for extra-curricular activities, whether thay are run by the school or as part of a community program. Check out the price of sports equipment or equipment and supplies for several popular hobbies and pass-times. They aren't cheap, and they certainly aren;t free.

I have no problem with people who choose to opt out of the program, I just see no reason why their decision should affect others. Just as I pay school taxes and my taxes will also go towards a national child care program, so should theirs. They should get back exactly as much as I do...none.

 

[tibear]

RB,

Not to be "smart" but it is easy to see that you don't have any children.

Just to let you know, I know the education system very well. My wife is a teacher at a suburban school and we have many friends and family members who are educators at various schools. There are good and bad everywhere.

There are programs for children who can't afford the equipment and/or registration fees for various sports.

I do see your point with regards to programs that an individual would never use. An example in my case would be the Royal Winnipeg Ballet. Never gone, not interested in going, probably never will. (Unless one of my daughters is dancing)

However, in this case, the daycare system I see as more resembling the social assistance program than the RWB.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

I didn't say anything about the RWB. I said "ballet". I know a few people who have had kids enrolled in ballet classes. They ain't cheap.

Other than that, the inequities between inner city schools and those in the suburbs are well-known, tibear. I also know a few people who work in the education system.

 

[tibear]

RB,

Your missing my point.

The RWB is a program that is government sponsored and a program that I choose not to use.

As for ballet, hockey, football, baseball, etc. Virtually every team, class will have programs setup for people who can't afford the equipment or registration fees. (The second time I've said this.)

As for the school system, I would agree that generally speaking the students in the inner city schools have greater challenges to overcome, but at the same time, those same schools have more resources to deal with the situations.

 

[Reverend Blair]

As for ballet, hockey, football, baseball, etc. Virtually every team, class will have programs setup for people who can't afford the equipment or registration fees. (The second time I've said this.)

Old, used equipment that may or may not fit properly is not the same as new equipment, tibear.

As for the school system, I would agree that generally speaking the students in the inner city schools have greater challenges to overcome, but at the same time, those same schools have more resources to deal with the situations.

Older computers, out of date text books...yeah, those are great resources.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I think you need to educate yourself before we can continue the debate. It is obvious you don't know what your talking about.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about. I know teachers in those schools that have to fight for every penny.

 

[tibear]

RB,

Its the same in every school. My wife is in a "suburban" school, she teaches a class of 35 kids with only 27 books. One has to sit at the teacher's desk because there aren't enough desks.

She teaches high school so she only has one class like that, but the books are out of date and no computers to be seen.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

The problems are worse in the inner city though, tibear. You know that and I know that.

Anyway, the point is that if given the option between living in a working class area like Transcona or moving to say Point Douglas, people will do what they can to stay in Transcona most of the time. Most of the time that means two parents working. That's why we need a childcare program, to allow them to do that.

 

[lena]

RB

I'm hardly putting words in anyones mouth here shheessh....lets just get that straight now! People have their opinions...I was expressing mine.

People with dual incomes with kids have enough tax breaks. (shot they can even write off summer camp!!!)

We can't do that ....mind you I don't want to. Summer is one of the best ways to spend time with the kiddos. (well so is the winter sports and damn cold night together but what the hell) LOL have you noticed my world is my kids? Life is short and I will spend it with my kids and my wonderful other.
This national child care stuff is just that crap. You want extra..from what the gov is giving you now?.. man oh man you pay for it!

oh bye the way TB? thanks for your understanding in my little hissy fit LOL. Its tough being a home mom nowadays.

I know LOTS of woman (including family) that would rather go to work then stay home...

 

[peapod]

What a wonderful picture you paint lena, I...I was truly moved *nabs eyes* I bet you got an apple pie in the oven every day to.

Alas..many people live in the real world....

 

[lena]

I find that a very mean thing to say PEA

 

[lena]

where do I sign up for advisor??

 

[peapod]

Well sometimes I am mean, especially when I think someone is trying to munipulate with cheap seidment. Conservatives have a habit of using childern to further their political agenda. And you become an advisor by how many posts you have...its all in the numbers....and ehm...if you have butterflies fliting around your head, and you can get your slinky to go down a entire set of long stairs in one move.

In the real world most people need dual incomes just to live a middle class life now, and you know it.