National Child care, a reason to do away with provinces

[tibear]

People need to make choices in life.

I know many families who life "middle class" lives without the middle class income. They simply have different priorities than the two vehicle, $200,000 mortgage families.

If you want to have two income families, then pay for your own daycare.

What would happen to the daycare system if the workers were paid a 'real' wage. The daycare workers are paid peanuts and yet the dual income families don't have a problem with that. Should we have the government subsidize the wages of the workers to bring them up to a "real working wage" AND subsidize the parents because they choose to spend their money on lifestyle rather than children AND subsidize the transportation costs for transporting all of the children to daycare from schools instead of having daycares at the schools,.......

When do the subsidies end?????

 

[Reverend Blair]

People with dual incomes with kids have enough tax breaks. (shot they can even write off summer camp!!!)

The same tax breaks are available to you.

Summer is one of the best ways to spend time with the kiddos. (well so is the winter sports and damn cold night together but what the hell) LOL have you noticed my world is my kids? Life is short and I will spend it with my kids and my wonderful other.

That's your choice, one many are not in a position to be able to make. Count yourself lucky.

This national child care stuff is just that crap. You want extra..from what the gov is giving you now?.. man oh man you pay for it!

I don't get anything from this program, lena...we don't have kids. It is what's right for most Canadians though. More than 50% of Canadian children spend time in some sort of child care because their parents are working.

I know many families who life "middle class" lives without the middle class income. They simply have different priorities than the two vehicle, $200,000 mortgage families.

Sorry, tibear...most Canadians who take advantage of this program are not in that income category. Most are working class people.

If you want to have two income families, then pay for your own daycare.

If you want to live in a Leave it to Beaver rerun that's up to you. The world has moved on.

What would happen to the daycare system if the workers were paid a 'real' wage. The daycare workers are paid peanuts and yet the dual income families don't have a problem with that.

Part of the proposed plan is to address that problem, tibear.

When do the subsidies end?????

Just before they get to you, bud. We have nightly meetings of the Screw Tibear Club where we plot against you.

 

[tibear]

RB,

Just before they get to you, bud. We have nightly meetings of the Screw Tibear Club where we plot against you.

I knew it, could never prove it but I knew it!!!

Quote:
If you want to have two income families, then pay for your own daycare.

If you want to live in a Leave it to Beaver rerun that's up to you. The world has moved on.

This world still exists RB. Only some people don't want to be watching the Jones's drive the lastest vehicle. Everyone wants what others have.

As I said, I know many, many families that have chosen to live off of one salary and have a parent stay home. Families with up to 10 children and a family income of about $50K a year. These children lack for nothing in sports or hobbies. How is this possible in your world RB???? BTW, this couple lives in Charleswood in a 1600 sq ft 4 bedroom bungalow not in Point Douglas.

It's all a matter of choice. Unfortunately, people today want everything right now and don't want the old fashion values of yesterday where they save for something before buying it. It turns out most people run up credit card debt and buy-now-pay-later schemes that they spend most of their paycheques on interest.

This is where the "everyone HAS to work' mentality has gotten us. If you don't have the latest gadgets your a loser. This mentality seems to be working great, can't wait for the interest rates to go up and see how many foreclosures happen and how people will pay for their bills.

But of course, I'm still living in June Cleaver time aren't I?????

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Yes you are, tibear. Make sure you don;t go to rough on the Beaver.

Your world can exist if you want it to. That is not what most Canadians feel is best for Canada, however. Don't expect to choose to opt out of society and have society pay you for that. Life doesn't work that way.

Again though, what really brought us here was wage erosion and a shrinking middle class. Most people work because they have to, not because they want to. It was very much the corporate agenda of conservatives that brought us here.

The very same people you vote for because of your narrow idea of "family values" are the ones who created a world where so many people have to work that a national childcare plan is necessary.

 

[tibear]

RB,

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately, it appears that you aren't willing to recognize that many, many families choose not to have both parents working, they have large families and they do just fine.

I've seen it and have a great deal of respect for those parents. Maybe if you ever met one of these families your eyes would be opened and you would see that it is possible for virtually every two parent family.

Certainly, no family of 5 could life off of a minimum wage salary but shouldn't the parents try to better themselves so that they don't have a minimum wage job???

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

I am fully willing to recognize that some people choose not to work. They are in the minority though. Over 50% of Canadian children are in some form of child-care.

You cannot remake Canada in 2005 so it looks Iowa in 1955. That isn't reality.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I could use your stat that almost 50% of Canadian children aren't in daycare and so it proves that many families are able to live off one salary if they choose.

Of the other families that put their children in daycare, how many are people who "have to work"? How many of these children come from professional families where there is no want for anything? (Except perhaps mommy or daddy)

My point is, ask any family with a stay-at-home parent and ask them their opinion. If there is an "expert" on the subject, I would suggest it would be them. You will find almost universal consensus that virtually all family could do it if they changed their lifestyle and make different choices.

BTW, it does seem strange to be argueing from the pro-choice side of the debate for a change!!!

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Nobody is taking your choice away, Tibear. What you are doing is trying to take the choice away from others. Again.

 

[tibear]

Nobody is taking anybodies choice away.

If you want to work, fine. Pay for your own childcare.

How is this different then saying I need a way to get to work so the government HAS to provide me with transportation to and from work.

If you want to work, fine. Pay for your own transportation, if you can't afford the transportation find another job that is either closer or another job that pays enough to pay for your transportation.

Stop putting your hands in my pockets. I'm getting uncomfortable with the number of hands in there already!!!

 

[Reverend Blair]

Nobody is taking anybodies choice away.

If you want to work, fine. Pay for your own childcare.

Many people cannot afford adequate childcare though. Since they have to work they are forced to leave their children in questionable or wholly inadequate care facilities. A national plan would give them the option of child care regulated to adequate standards. You are trying to keep that choice away from them.

 

[tibear]

Could we say the same thing about private schools??? Should everyone have the right to send their children to private schools, regardless on their ability to pay. Simply because I can't pay the $12,000 tuition a year to send my kids to SJR does this mean that I should go to the government and cry that it isn't fair????

You use what you can afford and if it isn't good enough you search for something that is better. If there is nothing better then you have to look at alternatives.

The government isn't there to balance the playing field in every little aspect of our lives. That's NOT their job.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

No. Private schools are an option that's available to people, tibear. They are not part of the system set up to ensure that kids get an adequate education. I've talked to some kids from St. John's by the way...they aren't getting much of an education either. It's more like some sort of Nazi indoctrination. ;-)

 

[tibear]

As I said earlier, perhaps if you talked with a couple in the situation that make ends meet on one salary with a large family, your eyes may be opened.

Until then I guess I should refer to you as Thomas.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

What makes you think I haven't talked top such a couple, tibear? The difference is that they realize they are in a position most cannot afford.

 

[tibear]

RB,

READ THIS POST VERY CLOSELY.

I know families that live off $50K a year and have as many as 10 children. Last time I looked that poverty line for a family of 4 was somewhere around $42K.

Obviously this family is "poorer" then virtually any family you want to compare with, however they make this work. The kids are fully involved with sports and hobbies. Their children attend private schools. They live in Charleswood in a 1600 sq ft Bungalow with 4 bedrroms. The family is extremely happy and the kids and some are now starting university.

In your world, how can they survive???????? Could it possibly be a choice they make about their lifestyle??? Maybe??? Possibly?????

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Read this post very closely: THAT DOES NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF CANADIANS.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Know what tibear...together my wife and I make a hell of a lot more than 50k a year, and I only have 5 kids, 2 of them only every other weekend...and I don't drive a new car, and I don't have a 60 inch HD TV and I don't have $200,000.00 house...and I don't have enough money right now to buy a coffee...

I rarely drink, and I don't do drugs...I don't gamble and I've cut my tobacco consumption to a pack every 4 days...

...and I can't afford to put my kids into daycare...

So I find your story of a one income family that makes 50K and live the high life to be offensive and entirely contrived...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

5 kids, Vanni? You are a busy boy. ;-)

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Well...3 of my own kids, and 2 step-kids...but yeah, I'm pretty damn busy... :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Why do they call them step-kids anyway? I've wondered about that for a long time. I've never stepped on my father's wife, yet she's my step-mother. Why step?