National Child care, a reason to do away with provinces
- Thread starter Gonzo
- Start date
Vanni,
I find it very offensive that you would say I "contrived" a family. How dare you imply that I would lie to make a point. Just because I find an arguement that you can't counter doesn't give you the right to attack me personally and call me a liar.
This is but one family of many I know that has one of the parents staying at home.
Another family has 7 children and they live off an income just about $40K a year. Another has 6 children with income of about $50K a year. Another has 5 children with income of about $55K a year. Shall I continue????
RB, yourself and others can't believe it because you haven't met these people. It is possible for a parent to stay at home in pretty much every circumstance(except single parent) if the family makes sacrifices.
YOu know what, go to a church sometime and see all of the families with their kids. In all likelihood the more the kids a family has, the more likely one of the parents stays home and they live off one salary.
I find it very offensive that you would say I "contrived" a family. How dare you imply that I would lie to make a point. Just because I find an arguement that you can't counter doesn't give you the right to attack me personally and call me a liar.
This is but one family of many I know that has one of the parents staying at home.
Another family has 7 children and they live off an income just about $40K a year. Another has 6 children with income of about $50K a year. Another has 5 children with income of about $55K a year. Shall I continue????
RB, yourself and others can't believe it because you haven't met these people. It is possible for a parent to stay at home in pretty much every circumstance(except single parent) if the family makes sacrifices.
YOu know what, go to a church sometime and see all of the families with their kids. In all likelihood the more the kids a family has, the more likely one of the parents stays home and they live off one salary.
RE: National Child care,
I was at a church a few weeks ago...did the whole two hours of calesthetics to Ukrainian chanting thing. That was in a small Catholic town with lots of big families.
Because the town is so small, the women are driving an hour or more to work every day. The men are generally working on the farm and then have a full-time job. The grandparents end up looking after the kids...not exactly how they had envisioned their retirements.
These people need a national daycare program.
I was at a church a few weeks ago...did the whole two hours of calesthetics to Ukrainian chanting thing. That was in a small Catholic town with lots of big families.
Because the town is so small, the women are driving an hour or more to work every day. The men are generally working on the farm and then have a full-time job. The grandparents end up looking after the kids...not exactly how they had envisioned their retirements.
These people need a national daycare program.
RE: National Child care,
I live in reality, tibear. It's not that comfortable, but it is never boring.
I live in reality, tibear. It's not that comfortable, but it is never boring.
Tibear would you please post the entire budget that your family on charles street lives on. Now this is the family of 10, with one income of 50K. Please present the entire budget for this family for one year, all expenses please. Since you will not take vanni up on his challenge on your book, and you still have not answered my post in regards to the essay he put up, than could you please at least put up the budget that the family of 12 live on for a year. I really want to see how this family does it. Shall I make a challenge and make a thread for it???
I do not have any childern, but I have no problem with my tax dollars going to support a national childcare system. Why? well I live in the REAL world just like the majority of canadians do. I KNOW what kind of struggles people have, and I KNOW what things cost.
Most of all I have a social concience. I care about the planet I live on, and childern...cause well ehm....I am still one myself Adults well thats a different story...many are a nasty bunch to deal with.
Your blah de blah blah is all about your pocketbook, christ its like reading charles dickens all over again, and christmas is over . You should be more concerned that the CHILDERN who have to go out into this world without their parents are looked after properly. If they are not....well ehm....we are all going to pay for it later....now go get that budget and put it up here.
I do not have any childern, but I have no problem with my tax dollars going to support a national childcare system. Why? well I live in the REAL world just like the majority of canadians do. I KNOW what kind of struggles people have, and I KNOW what things cost.
Most of all I have a social concience. I care about the planet I live on, and childern...cause well ehm....I am still one myself Adults well thats a different story...many are a nasty bunch to deal with.
Your blah de blah blah is all about your pocketbook, christ its like reading charles dickens all over again, and christmas is over . You should be more concerned that the CHILDERN who have to go out into this world without their parents are looked after properly. If they are not....well ehm....we are all going to pay for it later....now go get that budget and put it up here.
Sorry Pea, I'm not about to go to friends of mine and ask them to open their private lives to that detail just to suit your curiousity.
As I said, go to a church somewhere and try to find a family of say 5 or more children. Very likely the mother stays at home with the children. Ask them how they feel about having to pay for daycare for families where both parents choose to work.
I think your eyes may be opened by the response.
As I said, go to a church somewhere and try to find a family of say 5 or more children. Very likely the mother stays at home with the children. Ask them how they feel about having to pay for daycare for families where both parents choose to work.
I think your eyes may be opened by the response.
Oh I see, but you have no problem using them as an example for the rest of us eh?? I call bullshit in this poker game, and will continue to do so until you show me your hand....as in show me the budget.
You people as in conservatives are twisted, you try to milk emotions about dead babies in abortion, but when it comes to the care and welfare of childern in the world..well ehm...you know where I am going with this...eh??
I am not in need of redemption tibear, are you?? and if I need redemption, well ehm...I would not find it in a church...this much I know.
You people as in conservatives are twisted, you try to milk emotions about dead babies in abortion, but when it comes to the care and welfare of childern in the world..well ehm...you know where I am going with this...eh??
I am not in need of redemption tibear, are you?? and if I need redemption, well ehm...I would not find it in a church...this much I know.
Pea,
Would you like a friend of yours coming to you and asking to know very personal information simply to prove a point to a complete stranger????
Give your head a shake! I also have a feeling that even if I did exactly as you say, you STILL wouldn't believe me anyway. Those who don't want to open their eyes will not see, they simply close their eyes and prefer to the see the world that they imagine is around them.
I can almost guarantee you that if you go into any Catholic church you will find at least one family in that parish that fits the profile that I've been describing in this thread. If your really that interested in seeing how they do it, go and ask them.
As for your
We've already been through that!! The religious organizations that are the most vocal pro-life members are the ones that have had unwed mother homes long before the abortion issue came into question. They continue to be the most active organizations in helping the poor and disadvantaged in our society. They provide financial, emotional and spiritual support to countless children and adults in our country and around the world.
No wonder we can't agree on anything, you keep on bringing up points that have already been discussed.
Would you like a friend of yours coming to you and asking to know very personal information simply to prove a point to a complete stranger????
Give your head a shake! I also have a feeling that even if I did exactly as you say, you STILL wouldn't believe me anyway. Those who don't want to open their eyes will not see, they simply close their eyes and prefer to the see the world that they imagine is around them.
I can almost guarantee you that if you go into any Catholic church you will find at least one family in that parish that fits the profile that I've been describing in this thread. If your really that interested in seeing how they do it, go and ask them.
As for your
We've already been through that!! The religious organizations that are the most vocal pro-life members are the ones that have had unwed mother homes long before the abortion issue came into question. They continue to be the most active organizations in helping the poor and disadvantaged in our society. They provide financial, emotional and spiritual support to countless children and adults in our country and around the world.
No wonder we can't agree on anything, you keep on bringing up points that have already been discussed.
RE: National Child care,
Why do you want the rest of the country to choose the same life as a small minority of people that you happen to agree with, tibear?
Why do you want the rest of the country to choose the same life as a small minority of people that you happen to agree with, tibear?
RB,
I'm not saying they have to choose a lifestyle that the stay-at-home parents have. I'm simply saying that if you don't want this lifestyle, then pay for the childcare that you will require to have both parents working.
BTW, your own statistics of just over 50% of children are in some sort of daycare indicates that it isn't a 'small minority'. I don't know what you deem small minority but 40% is a minority, not small minority.
I'm not saying they have to choose a lifestyle that the stay-at-home parents have. I'm simply saying that if you don't want this lifestyle, then pay for the childcare that you will require to have both parents working.
BTW, your own statistics of just over 50% of children are in some sort of daycare indicates that it isn't a 'small minority'. I don't know what you deem small minority but 40% is a minority, not small minority.
RE: National Child care,
Large families are a small minority, tibear. Large families living on next to nothing by choice is an even smaller minority. That gets even smaller when you toss in a particular sect of a particular religion.
The majority of Canadians want a universal child care system in Canada. They want it because, although most only have one or two children, they are single parent families or both parents are working. Since we live in a democracy it would make sense that your odd large family that chooses to have one parent live at home is the the one that is opting out of the system. Since you are suggesting that they are right and everybody else is wrong, I would suggest that you are trying to force your religion-based ideals on the rest of us yet again.
Large families are a small minority, tibear. Large families living on next to nothing by choice is an even smaller minority. That gets even smaller when you toss in a particular sect of a particular religion.
The majority of Canadians want a universal child care system in Canada. They want it because, although most only have one or two children, they are single parent families or both parents are working. Since we live in a democracy it would make sense that your odd large family that chooses to have one parent live at home is the the one that is opting out of the system. Since you are suggesting that they are right and everybody else is wrong, I would suggest that you are trying to force your religion-based ideals on the rest of us yet again.
RB,
We aren't talking specifically about large Catholic families in this thread. We're talking about daycare. Your stat was that over 50% of children are in some sort of daycare, which means that more than 40% but less than 50% are at home with a parent.
I dispute your contention that the majority of Canadians want universal child care. I think the majority of Canadians want universal child care for those who "really' need it. Our dispute is who are the ones who "really" need the subsidy. I say that some families may need the subsidy but the number is relatively small.
Since when did I say that anyone who has both parents working is wrong??? Both my wife and I work outside the home!!! Granted my wife doesn't work fulltime but yes, we did have our children in some daycare BUT we paid for it ourselves.
We aren't talking specifically about large Catholic families in this thread. We're talking about daycare. Your stat was that over 50% of children are in some sort of daycare, which means that more than 40% but less than 50% are at home with a parent.
I dispute your contention that the majority of Canadians want universal child care. I think the majority of Canadians want universal child care for those who "really' need it. Our dispute is who are the ones who "really" need the subsidy. I say that some families may need the subsidy but the number is relatively small.
Since when did I say that anyone who has both parents working is wrong??? Both my wife and I work outside the home!!! Granted my wife doesn't work fulltime but yes, we did have our children in some daycare BUT we paid for it ourselves.
eh?? will you stop playing kindergarden games, you can certainly put that budget up there. You don't have to disclose anything personal at all. Simply show us how a family of 12 in the home you described on a income of 50k. Surely your friend would want to assist you showing everyone how this is possible. nes pas?? And please do not forget all the sports and activities this buget includes. I am seriously interested in seeing how they do it. I like to cut a few corners myself, so maybe their budget could give me a few ideas..
RE: National Child care,
Of course you paid for it yourselves, there was no national child care plan. It's time we changed that.
You kept bringing up all of these large families that survived on limited incomes as proof that we didn't need such a plan. Those families are a decided minority, yet the implication was that we all follow their example. Now you say that even you did not follow their example...that both you and your wife worked.
Your entire opposition to this plan is coming down to that same old tired conservative refrain. "I don't want to pay for anything." It's really too bad, Tibear. Life isn't free though.
Of course you paid for it yourselves, there was no national child care plan. It's time we changed that.
You kept bringing up all of these large families that survived on limited incomes as proof that we didn't need such a plan. Those families are a decided minority, yet the implication was that we all follow their example. Now you say that even you did not follow their example...that both you and your wife worked.
Your entire opposition to this plan is coming down to that same old tired conservative refrain. "I don't want to pay for anything." It's really too bad, Tibear. Life isn't free though.
Pea,
Like I said, even if I get you the budget, you wouldn't believe it anyway so why bother. BTW its "N'est pas?"
RB,
Hasn't my contention always been, "If you choose to put your children into daycare, pay for it yourself." By utilizing the examples of families that I personally know, I was proving the point that the ability to pay for daycare is a choice made by each family. These families are able to budget very wisely and make things work. Others simply throw up their hands and say that they can't make ends meet.
Don't get me wrong, if a family REALLY needs subsidized daycare when a parent works or goes to school to better themselves, then yes, give it too them. My problem is by making daycare like health care. That I'm not in favour of.
Like I said, even if I get you the budget, you wouldn't believe it anyway so why bother. BTW its "N'est pas?"
RB,
Hasn't my contention always been, "If you choose to put your children into daycare, pay for it yourself." By utilizing the examples of families that I personally know, I was proving the point that the ability to pay for daycare is a choice made by each family. These families are able to budget very wisely and make things work. Others simply throw up their hands and say that they can't make ends meet.
Don't get me wrong, if a family REALLY needs subsidized daycare when a parent works or goes to school to better themselves, then yes, give it too them. My problem is by making daycare like health care. That I'm not in favour of.