National Child care, a reason to do away with provinces

[merryclaire]

i agree, RB

my husband also moved around as a child...army brat...bc, alberta and new brunswick. he describes exactly the same problems as you encountered, as well as problems associated with different high school systems.
he went from one high school that was on the year long schedule and went to a high school that had the semester program in effect. he lost almost a whole year of school in some classes in grade 11.

the best system would be a mixture of federal and provincial. federal to oversee general regulations...so the country is in tune with each other. provincial so that the govt could fine tune the curriculam to match it's particular needs.

and day care is a must.
the danes (which is under federal) actually have started paying a parent to stay at home with their children.
daycare costs were so expensive to the government...because there they have free daycare for working parents...that it was actually cheaper to have a parent stay at home.

i want to move to denmark.

 

[passpatoo]

Gonzo:
Child care program, or day care, along with most other childhood services - like health, social services, elementary, secondary, and post-secondary education - are under provincial jurisdiction.
....The Federal Govern. had very little power given by the 1867 Constitution: regulation of trade and commerce , the post office,
the census ,national defense ,employment insurance, money and banking, copyrights , criminal law , citizenship, foreign policy . That's it, nothing more.
Everything else Otawa tries to regulate outside these 10 jurisdictions have been usurped from provincial governments.

Yes this is provincial territory and the provinces have the right to opt out. But this should be handled as Merryclaire describes. No province should be getting money from the feds without "strings attached". This would be irresponsible on the part of the feds.

I also think that the feds should be taking a little more from the provinces such as health care and the environment.

the danes (which is under federal) actually have started paying a parent to stay at home with their children.

I saw on one news report that this is one of the groups opposing the program. I think that we sometimes see these reports on how much more advanced children are by taking them to day care, starting thier education earlier etc. and we sometimes forget about some of the other important things like having a relationship with our children. I've changed careers to be able to be with my kids more, and Mrs Passpatoo is a stay at home mom starting up a small business out of our home now that our youngest is starting school. Maybe we were being greedy but we just felt that it was more important to be with our kids rather than give them that "head start" on thier education (and we place a very high level of importance on education). This isn't to say that I'm against National Child-care Program, quite the opposite. But perhaps we should be looking at what the Dutch are doing and consider incorporating that along with what is being proposed.

 

[passpatoo]

Gonzo:
Child care program, or day care, along with most other childhood services - like health, social services, elementary, secondary, and post-secondary education - are under provincial jurisdiction.
....The Federal Govern. had very little power given by the 1867 Constitution: regulation of trade and commerce , the post office,
the census ,national defense ,employment insurance, money and banking, copyrights , criminal law , citizenship, foreign policy . That's it, nothing more.
Everything else Otawa tries to regulate outside these 10 jurisdictions have been usurped from provincial governments.

Yes this is provincial territory and the provinces have the right to opt out. But this should be handled as Merryclaire describes. No province should be getting money from the feds without "strings attached". This would be irresponsible on the part of the feds.

I also think that the feds should be taking a little more from the provinces such as health care and the environment.

the danes (which is under federal) actually have started paying a parent to stay at home with their children.

I saw on one news report that this is one of the groups opposing the program. I think that we sometimes see these reports on how much more advanced children are by taking them to day care, starting thier education earlier etc. and we sometimes forget about some of the other important things like having a relationship with our children. I've changed careers to be able to be with my kids more, and Mrs Passpatoo is a stay at home mom starting up a small business out of our home now that our youngest is starting school. Maybe we were being greedy but we just felt that it was more important to be with our kids rather than give them that "head start" on thier education (and we place a very high level of importance on education). This isn't to say that I'm against National Child-care Program, quite the opposite. But perhaps we should be looking at what the Dutch are doing and consider incorporating that along with what is being proposed.

 

[passpatoo]

Gonzo:
Child care program, or day care, along with most other childhood services - like health, social services, elementary, secondary, and post-secondary education - are under provincial jurisdiction.
....The Federal Govern. had very little power given by the 1867 Constitution: regulation of trade and commerce , the post office,
the census ,national defense ,employment insurance, money and banking, copyrights , criminal law , citizenship, foreign policy . That's it, nothing more.
Everything else Otawa tries to regulate outside these 10 jurisdictions have been usurped from provincial governments.

Yes this is provincial territory and the provinces have the right to opt out. But this should be handled as Merryclaire describes. No province should be getting money from the feds without "strings attached". This would be irresponsible on the part of the feds.

I also think that the feds should be taking a little more from the provinces such as health care and the environment.

the danes (which is under federal) actually have started paying a parent to stay at home with their children.

I saw on one news report that this is one of the groups opposing the program. I think that we sometimes see these reports on how much more advanced children are by taking them to day care, starting thier education earlier etc. and we sometimes forget about some of the other important things like having a relationship with our children. I've changed careers to be able to be with my kids more, and Mrs Passpatoo is a stay at home mom starting up a small business out of our home now that our youngest is starting school. Maybe we were being greedy but we just felt that it was more important to be with our kids rather than give them that "head start" on thier education (and we place a very high level of importance on education). This isn't to say that I'm against National Child-care Program, quite the opposite. But perhaps we should be looking at what the Dutch are doing and consider incorporating that along with what is being proposed.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

You wrote:
Kids learn massive amounts when they are young and we need to make sure that all the childcare facilities are working to the same standards.

One time I had a job where I serviced both "private" and "public" daycare centres in Toronto.
I got to see both sides of the street, so to speak.

Let me tell yuh .... you should see what a private centre is like and where they charge 1000 bucks a month "minimum" per child.
It was such a "learning" place. They had everything you could imagine. Plus, they had outings to the science centre or the zoo.
I used to get so angry when going there because I resented what the rich folks had and was so jealous with the headstart their children were getting in relation to the other 99% of Canadians.

Maybe, the only reason they are bringing in government funding for DayCare is because the government knows full well that Mom-Dad (and any kid over 14) will need three jobs to pay the rent in 2020.
Maybe the government looks at it like "Day Storage" and not Day Care so that the rest of the family can work!

Calm

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

You wrote:
Kids learn massive amounts when they are young and we need to make sure that all the childcare facilities are working to the same standards.

One time I had a job where I serviced both "private" and "public" daycare centres in Toronto.
I got to see both sides of the street, so to speak.

Let me tell yuh .... you should see what a private centre is like and where they charge 1000 bucks a month "minimum" per child.
It was such a "learning" place. They had everything you could imagine. Plus, they had outings to the science centre or the zoo.
I used to get so angry when going there because I resented what the rich folks had and was so jealous with the headstart their children were getting in relation to the other 99% of Canadians.

Maybe, the only reason they are bringing in government funding for DayCare is because the government knows full well that Mom-Dad (and any kid over 14) will need three jobs to pay the rent in 2020.
Maybe the government looks at it like "Day Storage" and not Day Care so that the rest of the family can work!

Calm

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

You wrote:
Kids learn massive amounts when they are young and we need to make sure that all the childcare facilities are working to the same standards.

One time I had a job where I serviced both "private" and "public" daycare centres in Toronto.
I got to see both sides of the street, so to speak.

Let me tell yuh .... you should see what a private centre is like and where they charge 1000 bucks a month "minimum" per child.
It was such a "learning" place. They had everything you could imagine. Plus, they had outings to the science centre or the zoo.
I used to get so angry when going there because I resented what the rich folks had and was so jealous with the headstart their children were getting in relation to the other 99% of Canadians.

Maybe, the only reason they are bringing in government funding for DayCare is because the government knows full well that Mom-Dad (and any kid over 14) will need three jobs to pay the rent in 2020.
Maybe the government looks at it like "Day Storage" and not Day Care so that the rest of the family can work!

Calm

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

It's funny...we say everybody is equal, but the inequalities of education start with daycare and continue all the way through to fewer and fewer people being able to afford university.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

It's funny...we say everybody is equal, but the inequalities of education start with daycare and continue all the way through to fewer and fewer people being able to afford university.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

It's funny...we say everybody is equal, but the inequalities of education start with daycare and continue all the way through to fewer and fewer people being able to afford university.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

What you said was well said.

Nothing has changed since the peasants grabbed their pitch forks and stormed the King's Castle those many years ago.
The inequality still remains.

Calm

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

What you said was well said.

Nothing has changed since the peasants grabbed their pitch forks and stormed the King's Castle those many years ago.
The inequality still remains.

Calm

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

What you said was well said.

Nothing has changed since the peasants grabbed their pitch forks and stormed the King's Castle those many years ago.
The inequality still remains.

Calm

 

[Jay]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/15/ambrose-dryden050215.html



and she's cute too.....

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Are the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives so ridiculously inept at math that they can't figure out that we can afford to fund childcare, but cannot afford to pay half the population to stay home?

Are they suggesting that every parent in Canada who wants to stay home with the kids be paid $30K or so a year? Isn't that really just welfare for people who don't feel like working? What about people who are on welfare right now? Do they that $30K too?

 

[Twila]

I remember my grandmother telling me that when my mother was little, they had NO daycare programs. She relied on neighbours. Exchanging babysitting as it were.

My grandmother was a single mom. I guess in those days it the "it takes a village to raise a child" was held closer to the heart then it is in this day and age.

 

[peapod]

so true twila :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: National Child care,

Things have changed a lot since then though. In most working and middle class neighbourhoods there is nobody to look after the kids during the day. Most days around here, there's just the retired guys and me.

I doubt I could do my work if I had to look after a kid at the same time. It isn't the kind of thing they can participate in and I do require at least some quiet. The retired people do look after some kids, but they aren't too happy about having to do it every day.

That pretty much takes us back to needing a national daycare system.

 

[Jay]

The battle to have a national child care program further proves that provinces don’t care about the country but only about retaining and gaining more power.

Gonzo said it backwards. It is the Canadian government who further proves it doesn’t care about the country when it cares more about meddling about in provincial affairs.
Correct me if I’m wrong; the provinces do not meddle in the constitutional affairs of the Federal Government. It isn’t an issue. When it is an issue it goes to the Supreme Court and is settled there. The federal government is consistently stirring the pot and dividing Canadians with its contempt for the power sharing as it was written on 1867. If this doesn’t stop, I think it will break the country up.

The Federal Govern. had very little power given by the 1867 Constitution: regulation of trade and commerce , the post office,
the census ,national defense ,employment insurance, money and banking, copyrights , criminal law , citizenship, foreign policy . That's it, nothing more.

Unfortunately this is an incorrect statement, and may be part of the reason ppl don’t understand what is so troubling about this issue. The federal government has been given every other responsibility other then that which is exclusivity given to the provinces.

Lets quote the BNA Act:

“91. It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate and House of Commons, to make laws for the Peace, Order, and good Government of Canada, in relation to all Matters not coming within the Classes of Subjects by this Act assigned exclusively to the Legislatures of the Provinces; and for greater Certainty, but not so as to restrict the Generality of the foregoing Terms of this Section, it is hereby declared that (notwithstanding anything in this Act) the exclusive Legislative Authority of the Parliament of Canada extends to all Matters coming within the Classes of Subjects next hereinafter enumerated; that is to say,-- “


Difficult language, but, it clearly says “in relation to all matters not coming within the classes of subjects by this act assigned exclusively to the legislators of the province…”
Then it goes further to add to the federal governments understanding of its role saying “and for greater certainty, but not as to restrict the generality of the fore going terms…”

There are 29 subjects mentioned. They are the exclusive powers given to the feds as to what role they are to play in this merger of states. The provinces are given exclusively to their power; the feds are given everything else. Other wise the wording would be different.


Then….

True. But the provinces always have their hands out for more money from Ottawa. They want the money, but they dont want to be told how to spend it. And I agree, Quebec's system seems to be a good one. But I do think that the federal government should have more power. Because if the federal government is weak and doesn't control anything, whats the point in having a country?

The provinces haven’t their hand out for more money it is again the other way around.

Term or subject # 2 of the Exclusive Powers of Provincial Legislatures is direct taxation. The federal government has no business being involved in direct taxation in any province.

Secondly the provinces really only ask for money when it has to do with the federal policies of wealth redistribution with in the country. The feds love the agreements they just don’t like living up to them monetarily. They create all sorts of departments they shouldn’t have though, and give money away to their friends, and they cause shit with under funding, and these things have an effect on provincial politics too. The feds love it.

As for the federal government needing more power. Well I think I’ve already established that it has plenty of other things to do with its time. It could make our nation strong, but instead it tries to have us bickering. The biggest proponent to separating provinces in this country is the federal government.

whats the point in having a country?

In this part of the woods, it’s to bring around a union of states.

It's funny...we say everybody is equal, but the inequalities of education start with daycare and continue all the way through to fewer and fewer people being able to afford university.

Regardless, these are provincial issues.

If the people/government of Manitoba decide these issues are to be funded exclusively by the legislator of their province that is their business. Not Ontario’s, or the federal government’s. If the federal government has an extra 5 billion to blow on some program, it should use it for a matter that concerns them, pay off debt with it, or return it to the rightful owner of those funds, which is to say the provinces they took it from.

Sure we say people are equal, but they aren’t all to receive 30K a year; they are equal before the law.

It needs to be federally regulated so when kids move there is some continuity in school.

This isn’t a big enough reason for the feds to join in. My wife’s a teacher; her job is to teach kids. If there are special needs for her students, she accommodates them. So do guidance departments.

I’m simply saying this is no justification. We expect differences. These are provinces we are dealing with, not one great big one called Canada in the united federation of word states run by the non elected UN and serves the USA or whoever it pleases.

Kindergarten was just coming in when I was a kid. I went to kindergarten and part of grade 1 in Edmonton. I finished grade 1 in Regina where I went school until grade 4. Then we moved to Ottawa. Then halfway through grade 7 we went back to Regina.

You don’t seem to be much worst for the wear.


The issue is about power and why does the federal government want to have provincial powers. It isn’t about childcare. Any province that wants to have free or partly free childcare may do so with the blessing of its people. It’s about posturing and bickering over what isn’t an issue. The federal government is acting very much like it has adopted an attitude of complete centralization of this country, and it is breaking the country up.

I say these very well may be the reasons our constitutional framers wanted powers to be the way they are, to keep the country together, and stable. I also say the people who try to centralize this nation are trying to destroy it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

It is the Canadian government who further proves it doesn’t care about the country when it cares more about meddling about in provincial affairs.

It is the Canadian government that is trying to ensure that all Canadians have access to equal services.

Correct me if I’m wrong; the provinces do not meddle in the constitutional affairs of the Federal Government.

You're wrong. Every single time a constitutional issue comes up, the provinces are there yelling and screaming. Raplh Klein is likely the worst.

In this part of the woods, it’s to bring around a union of states.

So are you saying you're an American, JJ? That would explain the regressive political stances, I guess.

Regardless, these are provincial issues.

Apparently not, since we are talking about a national system.

This isn’t a big enough reason for the feds to join in.

It sure as hell is. People didn;t move nearly as often or as far when I was a kid as they do now.

My wife’s a teacher; her job is to teach kids. If there are special needs for her students, she accommodates them. So do guidance departments.

Is your wife a kid who moves a lot? No? Then you don't understand the problem.

I’m simply saying this is no justification. We expect differences.

Why should there be differences. Why, when we moved to Ottawa, was I a full year ahead in everything but French? Why was Social Studies taught in French in an English school? Why are there no national standards?

These are provinces we are dealing with, not one great big one called Canada in the united federation of word states run by the non elected UN and serves the USA or whoever it pleases.

What the hell are you talking about? The rest of us are talking about making sure that kids get the best possible shot in life and you are spewing paranoid nonsensical garbage based on lies that the boys on Fox tell.

You don’t seem to be much worst for the wear.

Yeah, because both of my parents started their careers as teachers and I had two older brothers. Others who went through similar things weren't so lucky.

The issue is about power and why does the federal government want to have provincial powers. It isn’t about childcare.

It is exactly about childcare. It's just the neo-conservative radical right who are afraid that if their kids get educated they might learn not to hate gays and understand that people didn't have pet dinosaurs.

Actually it's even simpler than that isn't it, JJ? It's about you being afraid that somebody might take thirty cents of your money to make sure that your neighbour's kid gets the same opportunity as your kid.

I also say the people who try to centralize this nation are trying to destroy it.

I say it's the greedhogs who live in perpetual fear that somebody might actually get out from under their cloven hooves long enough to look around and ask questions that are destroying this country.