NAFTA: Negotiations beginning with U.S. Wish list

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Nova Scotia will eventually control all of the eastern seaboard, it's the tides you see, no of corse you stupid Yankees are blind frum yer flawed replication programe. Youo know sweet fuk all about natural replication all yer women belong to us, they can't help it. All we have to do is smile and they melt.

Manie was always Nova Scotia anyway.

I may have exposed my ertremist tendancies. So few will notice I perhaps, you can't take me alive in any case, I haven't been all evening.

I hope your algorithims choke on me you useless tiny bags of snot.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
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TV news? I read the article, more predictions no substance.
Yet more hillary, and remain will win type stuff.

"It’s a tact he believes will ultimately play out in Canada’s favour."
(from the link, OP)

Well, NOW there is something for the Canadian Trump haters to complain about.

"Imposing steep duties on softwood lumber exports"???
(from the link, OP)

How the hell does Trump put duties on our EXPORTS???
lol, too much...
 
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Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
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Third rock from the Sun
After Trump's tough talk, NAFTA proposals look more like light reno than demolition - Politics - CBC News


But if that's a treat for Canadians, Ujczo said "the most specific negative aspect" is a section on trade remedies that calls for eliminating Chapter 19, the vehicle for resolving disputes over underpriced "dumping" of goods and countervailing duty claims.

That's been a big issue with respect to wheat, beef and pork products, and the binational panels have ruled in favour of Canada. Chapter 19 has also been used successfully by Canada in the long-running softwood lumber dispute.

Ujczo said Congress, which gets to approve the Trump administration's trade objectives before they can be negotiated, has long had Chapter 19 in its crosshairs. The U.S. trade czar's blueprint, however, still leaves open the door to "create new procedures" for resolving disputes at a later date.

In that respect, getting rid of Chapter 19 is nothing surprising, though Barry Appleton, an international trade attorney who advised the Ontario Cabinet Committee on North American Free Trade as the NAFTA was being negotiated, said the mechanism "was never really functioning very well anyways."

Sounds like we should keep Chapter 19 or at least update it to be fair. Is it because its worked in our favour before, as mentioned, that congress has had it in their "crosshairs"?

What do you guys think?

I don't know much about this kind of stuff but if anyone wants to take a stab at this, that would be cool.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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Nova Scotia will eventually control all of the eastern seaboard, it's the tides you see, no of corse you stupid Yankees are blind frum yer flawed replication programe. Youo know sweet fuk all about natural replication all yer women belong to us, they can't help it. All we have to do is smile and they melt.

Manie was always Nova Scotia anyway.

I may have exposed my ertremist tendancies. So few will notice I perhaps, you can't take me alive in any case, I haven't been all evening.

I hope your algorithims choke on me you useless tiny bags of snot.

You are projecting forward into the upcoming legalized pot era, I take it.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Nakusp, BC
 

tay

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President Trump "has gone squishy" on the North American Free Trade Agreement, said Peter Coy at Bloomberg Businessweek. With NAFTA renegotiations slated to begin Aug. 16, many analysts expected the Trump administration "to take a hard, nationalistic line" on updating the three-way pact with Mexico and Canada. Earlier this year, Trump called the 1994 agreement "the worst trade deal maybe ever signed anywhere," and threatened to slap a 20 percent tariff on Mexican goods to pay for the border wall.

But instead of a wholesale overhaul, Trump is now aiming for a modest revamp. The official objectives released by the White House last week "aim to tune up, not gut" the trade pact, with a U.S. recommitment to tariff-free, quota-free trade with its neighbors, along with some tough, but largely symbolic, language about reducing trade deficits. The rest of the 17-page document is "mostly mainstream ideas for furthering trade liberalization, such as speeding goods through customs." Overall, the administration's stated goals "are surprisingly tame."

Free-trade advocates "are breathing sighs of relief," said Jonathan Swan at Axios. Some feared that administration hard-liners like Stephen Bannon and National Trade Council Director Peter Navarro would include "poison pills," such as new border taxes, that would render the negotiations "dead on arrival." But there's nothing in the White House's game plan "that terrifies establishment Republicans on Capitol Hill or the Mexicans and Canadians who'll ultimately be sitting across the negotiating table."

Still, "disguised in the dry, sanitized language" of the administration's objectives were "fighting words," said Ana Swanson at The Washington Post. Two possible points of contention: The White House wants to move disputes over anti-dumping duties and other retaliatory trade measures from an international arbitration panel to a U.S. trade court. It also wants to scrap a special exemption for Canada and Mexico that protects them from U.S. tariffs and quotas designed to help specific industries "seriously injured" by international trade. You can expect both countries to fight back hard against these proposed changes.

"The stakes are high," said The Economist. The U.S. does roughly a quarter of its trade in goods and services with Canada and Mexico. "The three economies tend to grow or shrink together and have integrated supply chains." So far, the Trump administration's aims for NAFTA appear to be "closer to revision than destruction." But if U.S. negotiators end up emphasizing more-Trumpian themes at the table, "the talks could take an angry turn." That would be a shame, said Mary Anastasia O'Grady at The Wall Street Journal.

Less than 13 percent of the total U.S. trade deficit is with its NAFTA partners. What's more, continental free trade helps U.S.
companies to be more competitive globally. Because U.S. automakers can rely on production facilities in all three NAFTA countries, they "turn out cars and trucks that compete on price and quality all over the world." The White House's objectives "are largely constructive. But Trump protectionists have planted a few land mines."


How Trump softened on NAFTA
 

taxslave

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Vancouver Island
After Trump's tough talk, NAFTA proposals look more like light reno than demolition - Politics - CBC News




Sounds like we should keep Chapter 19 or at least update it to be fair. Is it because its worked in our favour before, as mentioned, that congress has had it in their "crosshairs"?

What do you guys think?

I don't know much about this kind of stuff but if anyone wants to take a stab at this, that would be cool.

Most people including some of the ones in the reade ministries don't even understand what dumping is. Basically it means selling export goods cheaper than in the home country. If this article was enforced properly California would owe us BIGTIMEfor electricity as off peak rates are often lower than domestic rates.


I like that guy.
 

tay

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The Red Line in Canada-US Trade:


Back in 1987 the Canada-US FTA was saved by a last minute deal on a dispute-resolution mechanism, remembers Stanley Hartt. He urges the Trudeau government to stand firm on the issue in upcoming NAFTA renegotiations.

By Stanley Hartt, July 28, 2017

On October 3, 1987, at the very last minute for concluding a satisfactory Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the United States, Treasury Secretary James A. Baker III burst through the doors of an ante room in his own suite of offices in the historic Treasury Building in Washington. He had a compromise to offer to the Canadian delegation on the arcane issue of the procedure to resolve disputes regarding anti-dumping and countervailing duties.

The urgency arose from the authority Congress had given to President Reagan to negotiate an agreement with Canada accompanied by so-called “fast track authority,” whereby Congress agreed to vote for or against the proposed agreement, without any ability to amend it. But that was true only so long as it was presented for Congressional review by October 5, 1987. Fast track authority was essential if Canada’s negotiators were to have confidence that any offers made to obtain valued access to America’s markets would not be nickeled and dimed by demands for a second wave of concessions on the part of legislators.

Baker told the eight Canadians in the room that he had motorcycle riders waiting to take the agreed text of the Elements of the Free Trade Agreement (legal drafting of formal texts would come later) to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the president of the Senate. Should he send them?
Signing an agreement without any ability to test the validity of each party’s application even of its own domestic legislation would have been naïve in the extreme.
The issue that had sparked the crisis that very nearly led to a failure of the mammoth efforts, on both sides of the border, to craft a ground-breaking, economy-building historic trade pact between the two neighbours was the mechanism to be used to settle disputes about whether sanctions were legal and appropriate when invoked to punish alleged dumping (pricing exported goods at less than the price charged in the home market or below their cost of production) or subsidization of exported goods by the application of countervailing duties.

As an aggressive trader, the US often applied such measures under its domestic laws in response to pressures from industry lobbies, but not necessarily in conformity with established legal principles. Signing an agreement without any ability to test the validity of each party’s application even of its own domestic legislation would have been naïve in the extreme.

The negotiators had hit upon a fair solution – the establishment of bi-national panels composed of 25 people knowledgeable about trade matters from each of Canada and the US. Each country would appoint two panellists for a particular dispute and the first four thus chosen would chose a fifth panellist and the five panellists would elect a Chair. In practice, a rotation was established where the fifth panellist was selected alternately from Canada or the US. The job of the panel was to ensure that the parties applied their domestic laws fairly and even-handedly.

Someone had brought to Secretary Baker’s attention very late in the process the fact that, under US law, decisions that were final and binding on US citizens or entities could not be delegated to foreign persons or panels. This concern, however legitimate, threatened to derail the very basis of our deal, and Derek Burney, the delegation’s leader and the Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff had a long conversation with Prime Minister Mulroney explaining the impasse. We were all polled about whether we thought that, in the absence of this control on politically-motivated trade remedies, there was any purpose in salvaging the otherwise extremely advantageous and well-negotiated deal. We unanimously, and reluctantly, agreed that the answer was “no.”

So it was heartwarming and surprising when Baker frantically rushed into our conference room to make a proposal to solve the problem he had raised: an “extraordinary challenge” procedure would be added, whereby a panel of three judges, selected from among judges or former judges of a federal court in the US or a court of superior jurisdiction in Canada (i.e., federal appointees), could review the legality of bi-national panel decisions, and, if appropriate, reverse them.

We took a quick vote and told Baker to send the motorcycles.
Canada has won its fair share and lost its fair share of these disputes, mostly where we should have won or lost.
This system has worked extraordinarily well. Canada has won its fair share and lost its fair share of these disputes, mostly where we should have won or lost. In other words, the panels have done their intended jobs of keeping the parties on the straight and narrow. The same concepts, evolved in their detail but essentially adapted to a tripartite setting, were later incorporated in the NAFTA Agreement.

But we are now in a situation where President Donald Trump has instructed his US Trade Representative (USTR) to re-open the NAFTA Agreement and seek to improve and update it. That’s fine. Canada, too, has a long list of matters that have developed over the years or were “forehead slappers” that we realize should have been included but were overlooked. As such, re-opening NAFTA is not necessarily a terrible thing.

Under the current version of “fast track authority,” now known as “Trade Promotion Authority,” the USTR is obliged to provide a summary of specific objectives for NAFTA renegotiation, no less than 30 days before the commencement of negotiations. This document, dated July 17, 2017, has many items of interest to Canada and many that should be concerning. But, among these, two items go to the very heart of how Canada needs to protect itself from arbitrary exercise or inappropriate application of US domestic trade law.

Under the heading “Trade Remedies,” the document records the objectives to “Eliminate the Chapter 19 dispute settlement mechanism” and “Preserve the ability of the United States to enforce rigorously its trade laws, including the anti-dumping, countervailing duty and safeguard laws.”

Under the heading “Dispute Settlement,” it seeks to “Encourage the early identification and settlement of disputes through consultation and other mechanisms.” It goes on to allude to the need to have a dispute settlement mechanism that is “effective, timely, and in which panel determinations are based on the provisions of the Agreement,” as well as one that is “transparent,” among other criteria.

This cuts to the heart and core of whether the revised Agreement will be worth the paper it is written on. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has already responded that “a fair dispute resolution system is essential for any trade deal that Canada signs onto, and we expect that that will continue to be the case in any renegotiated NAFTA, that we will continue to have a fair dispute resolution system.”
In every negotiation, there are a few items that are “no-give” matters, which a party simply cannot afford to accede to.
The US appears to prefer to have US Courts determine the application of US law, arguing that panels have not always determined matters before them in a manner consistent with law or even the provisions of the Agreement. Canada’s view has always been that not only are panels cheaper and swifter forums for resolving trade disputes, but the court system in neither country is staffed with experts trained in the subtle nuances of international trade law, which is a highly sophisticated and well-developed legal specialty.

In every negotiation, there are a few items that are “no-give” matters, which a party simply cannot afford to accede to. Prime Minister Trudeau wisely decided not to include in his response the kind of ‘red line” language that political leaders often come to regret. Yet it will be important for Canadians, including the millions whose jobs depend on NAFTA continuing to function as heretofore, to understand that this is one area, however obscure, on which Canada will indeed have to dig its heels in - if it becomes clear that nothing less than being prosecutor, judge and jury as to its own behaviour in dumping and subsidy matters will satisfy the Americans.

Panels may not be the only way to skin this cat, but the negotiators will have to come up with some form of check and balance against politically-motivated overkill on dumping or countervail matters. Otherwise, the unilateral application of US trade remedies will make this a one-sided deal not worth having.


Stanley Herbert Hartt, OC, QC is a lawyer, lecturer, businessman, and civil servant. He currently serves as counsel at Norton Rose Fulbright Canada. He was Deputy Minister of Finance when the FTA was negotiated and one of the 8 Canadians in the room when the “Elements” were agreed to.

The Red Line in Canada-US Trade: Stanley Hartt for Inside Policy | Macdonald-Laurier Institute