N. Korea attacks S. Korean island, killing 2 marines

[CUBert]

Pal you don't have any judgement to cloud LOL.

You are quite ignorant. Your ignorance can't even be blamed on being sheltered from the facts. It is in fact a choice to be ignorant and that makes your post all the more pathetic. Carry on.

This post doesn't contribute anything and is nothing more then pure garbage.
You bring up words like "ignorance" and "facts" constantly, insuiating you actually know something. You certainly haven't proved you know anything, so there's no reason you should be acting like a condescending douche.

The only person bringing anything substantial to the topic is earth_As_one, everyone else is ranting and spewing trash because of the insinuation south korea may actually be in the wrong in this particular incident.

 

[Tonington]

Do you believe that North Korea retaliated by firing rounds into a civilian area? Link please...

Two Civilians Killed By North Korean Shelling : The Two-Way : NPR

Houses aren't military targets...

 

[earth_as_one]

According to your link, two civilians were killed at a ruined construction site at the South Korean military base.
The image in your link shows a destroyed waterfront while the rest of the village looks intact. How much you want to bet South Korea used to have an artillery position right on the waterfront.

 

[Tonington]

According to your link, two civilians were killed at a ruined construction site at the South Korean military base.

A construction site ruined by artillery...

 

[DurkaDurka]

I don't believe in double standards. If a North Korean live fire exercise can be considered an escalation or provocative then, the same must apply to South Korean live fire exercises, especially when they conducted along or possibly across the border.


I apologize if my post belittled your opinion. I did not intend to sound like that. Now you shove off...

You only believe in being a mouthpiece for despot regimes, you are a disgusting person, Earth.

No one knows much at all about north korea, we get our information from the defectors , and south korea pays the defectors more money for more intelligence, so who knows how reliable that is.

So it's alright that we feed them yet they terrorize us at the same time?

You don't know much about anything, period. Your traitorous piece of dung

According to your link, two civilians were killed at a ruined construction site at the South Korean military base.
The image in your link shows a destroyed waterfront while the rest of the village looks intact. How much you want to bet South Korea used to have an artillery position right on the waterfront.

Of how much military value is a small Island, Earth? The fact that the North commies shelled it and killed civilians negates the fact of your conspiracies. NK is at fault here and if you fail to realize that, you're a piece of excrement.

You sicken me, you are the exact type of Canadian we do not need.

 

[earth_as_one]

Try to follow forum rules. Attack the message, not the messenger.

If South Korea fired artillery from this island at North Korea, then every artillery position on the island is fair game. Under the laws regarding war, North Korea is even allowed to attack military targets located in residential areas. I wouldn't call these civilians human shields, but your your war criminal pals in Israel might. I question the wisdom of locating residential areas next to military positions during war and then using those positions to shell enemy territory. Who'd have thought they might fire back?

 

[Unforgiven]

You certainly haven't proved you know anything, so there's no reason you should be acting like a condescending douche.

Have you ever noticed when someone is acting like a condescending douche to you, it's often because you are acting like a stupid twat?

 

[Colpy]

If it all goes bad, chances are we'll be in on it........

CBC News - Politics - Korean war could involve Canada

BTW, just to make a point.........my some Canadian F-35 fighters would be handy in that conflict, flying out of South Korea.....don't ya think???

The point of buying the best air superiority fighter.....you can't see the future.

 

[earth_as_one]

I expect our PM would get us involved regardless of our UNC obligations. While the UNC still exists, I doubt its framework is workable. Technically China and Russia are part of the UNC. I doubt they'd support a war with North Korea.

 

[Tonington]

If South Korea fired artillery from this island at North Korea, then every artillery position on the island is fair game.

I question the wisdom of locating residential areas next to military positions during war and then using those positions to shell enemy territory.

Notice how in the first block quote you say IF, and in the second it's assumed to be true?

Also, where do you expect soldiers families to live? Canada and many other nations operate bases like this too. The town of Greenwood in Nova Scotia is right next to the Air Wing. CFB Petawawa is right next to homes...

 

[Machjo]

A few questions here:

1. According to established international laws, to whom do those disputed waters South Korea was practicing in belong, or is it not clear owing to a lack of a clearly defined border recognized by international laws?

2. If those waters are recognized by the international community as belonging to North Korea or, alternatively, are simply recognized by the international community as disputed, then why did South Korea decide to hold drills in those waters?

3. If those waters are recognized by the international community as either South Korean or simply disputed territory, then why did North Korea attack?

Personally, I'd judge responsibility along those criteria.

A) If those waters are recognized by international law as North Korean, then clearly South Korea is the aggressor, and we have no obligation towards it, ally or not, since it violated international law and therefore put itself and its allies in danger.In fact, should the UN give South Korea any kind of warning, we should stand behind the principle of international law. Nothing personal.

B) If they are recognized in international law as disputed waters, then both sides are equally culpable, South Korea for having carried out military drills in waters which are not clearly defined in international law as South Korean, and North Korea for having attacked South Korea for having entered waters international law does not recognize as North Korean anyway. If that is the case, I'd say the UN should condemn the actions of both Koreas equally and push them to settle the dispute as quickly as possible so as to establish clear boundaries as soon as possible.

C) If those waters were recognized by international law as being South Korean waters, then South Korea had every right to carry out exercises in those waters. Maybe not a wise move, but still within its rights, and North Korea is the clear aggressor. If that is the case, then certainly the international community should stand behind South Korea on this and South Korea, as per international laws, has a right to defend itself militarily to the extent necessary while doing all within reason to de-escalate tensions.

Again, nothing personal. International should prevail, if we want to call this world civilized.

As always with North Korea, actions directed outward are tied to internal events. It probably has something to do with Kim Jong-un. Perhaps it's meant to make the younger Kim look tough.



Actually, I believe the Bush administration was afraid of China and therefore wouldn't of taken any action against NK.

China's alliance with North Korea is strictly pragmatic. North Korea is suspected of having printed Chinese currency to finance itself in the past. Needless to say, such a stab in the back of an ally isn't quickly forgotten. North Korea is always pushing South Korea's buttons, while China justs want stability along its borders. The main reason China does not want war between the Koreas is because the last thing it wants to have to deal with is a flood of refugees flooding across the Chinese border from North Korea. If it weren't for that, chances are China would be taking a firmer stance against its ally. Quite honestly, my guess is China has friendlier relations with South Korea than with North Korea, and is protecting North Korea only out of self-interest along its border. Think the Arizona-Mexico border! Essentially, If North Korea pushes China beyond its patience, while China would certainly never approve a NATO-led invasion of North Korea, I could see it a UN-led invasion. but again only if North Korea really pushes the limits of China's patience. And where those limits are, nobody knows, not even North Korea I'd bet, and possibly not even China. But seeing that their relations have been strained, and that North Korea has served as somewhat of an embarrassing ally to the Chinese, there certainly is a breaking point somewhere, wherever it might be. It's just a matter of North Korea crossing the line before China turns around and approves some kind of UN-led invasion, with Canada, the US, Japan and others being more than wiling to give South Korea a helping hand.

It' just a matter of time before either North Korea chills out a little or China gives the green light.

 

[CUBert]

So it's alright that we feed them yet they terrorize us at the same time?

You don't know much about anything, period. Your traitorous piece of dung

Who's terrorizing us? Nationalism is nothing more than a disease that blinds people from truths, durkadurka is a good example of it.

You sicken me, you are the exact type of Canadian we do not need.

the irony of this has me chuckling.

A few questions here:

1. According to established international laws, to whom do those disputed waters South Korea was practicing in belong, or is it not clear owing to a lack of a clearly defined border recognized by international laws?

2. If those waters are recognized by the international community as belonging to North Korea or, alternatively, are simply recognized by the international community as disputed, then why did South Korea decide to hold drills in those waters?

3. If those waters are recognized by the international community as either South Korean or simply disputed territory, then why did North Korea attack?

Personally, I'd judge responsibility along those criteria.

A) If those waters are recognized by international law as North Korean, then clearly South Korea is the aggressor, and we have no obligation towards it, ally or not, since it violated international law and therefore put itself and its allies in danger.In fact, should the UN give South Korea any kind of warning, we should stand behind the principle of international law. Nothing personal.

B) If they are recognized in international law as disputed waters, then both sides are equally culpable, South Korea for having carried out military drills in waters which are not clearly defined in international law as South Korean, and North Korea for having attacked South Korea for having entered waters international law does not recognize as North Korean anyway. If that is the case, I'd say the UN should condemn the actions of both Koreas equally and push them to settle the dispute as quickly as possible so as to establish clear boundaries as soon as possible.

C) If those waters were recognized by international law as being South Korean waters, then South Korea had every right to carry out exercises in those waters. Maybe not a wise move, but still within its rights, and North Korea is the clear aggressor. If that is the case, then certainly the international community should stand behind South Korea on this and South Korea, as per international laws, has a right to defend itself militarily to the extent necessary while doing all within reason to de-escalate tensions.

Again, nothing personal. International should prevail, if we want to call this world civilized.

good post, i agree completely

 

[ironsides]

Yes, we all know, North Korea needs a time out. Where or when did South Korea hold a live fire exercise where shells, aircraft etc. violated North Korean airspace. Holding exercises in international waters in the Yellow Sea is not a cause to shell anyone and cause causalities. North Korea is a criminal state and should be removed as such. Seems the world forgets the abduction of foreign nationals by N. Korea. No doubt that this was a direct provocation by North Korea. Now they await our patty cake response. Till next time.

 

[petros]

The simple fact of the matter is South Korea is a democracy, a rich and prosperous nation with a free people, and a government that understands how disasterous war with North Korea would be.

Rich? Free?

Your kidding right?

 

[Unforgiven]

This is why you invade countries like Iran before they get the bomb.

 

[Colpy]

This is why you invade countries like Iran before they get the bomb.

I'm not sure about "invade".....but this is why you simply don't allow countries like Iran to get the bomb.......helping the Israelis out with some bunker busters etc would be a very wise move........

North Korea badly needs to be destroyed....I don't mean punished, I mean regime change, the ill Kong Jingle-bell heads done away with, the nation taken under the arm of the west, a large middle finger extended across the border into China.........

Death to Tyrants.

 

[china]

Who's terrorizing us? Nationalism is nothing more than a disease that blinds people from truths, durkadurka is a good example of it.
the irony of this has me chuckling.



good post, i agree completely

Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka You sicken me, you are the exact type of Canadian we do not need

China ....what about me DurkaDurka ..?

 

[ironsides]

Feeling left out?

This is why you invade countries like Iran before they get the bomb.

Who invaded Iran?

 

[earth_as_one]

Machjo: A few questions here:

1. According to established international laws, to whom do those disputed waters South Korea was practicing in belong, or is it not clear owing to a lack of a clearly defined border recognized by international laws?
A: The UN Command (one of the belligerents) drew a line on the map, called it the Northern Limit Line. North Korea never agreed to this line, but it was enforced by UNC who ruled the seas, so there is little North Korea can do about it. Technically its undisputed territory until the two parties sign an agreement. South Korea's live drill exercise were close to the NLL. North Korea claims South Korean artillery crossed the NLL into undisputed North Korean territory, prompting them to return fire.


2. If those waters are recognized by the international community as belonging to North Korea or, alternatively, are simply recognized by the international community as disputed, then why did South Korea decide to hold drills in those waters?
A: ??

3. If those waters are recognized by the international community as either South Korean or simply disputed territory, then why did North Korea attack?
A: North Korea claims some shells landed in undisputed North Korea territory. Also, the tiny sliver sea on the undisputed North Korean side of the NLL is barely navigable. South Korea's four and a half hour live fire drill exercise would have shut down North Korean shipping and fishing activity. Would you voluntarily pilot a vessel a few hundred meters from exploding artillery shells?

BTW, MSM accounts of this incident seldom mention the South Korean live fire exercise which preceded the North Korean attack and completely ignore North Korean claims that South Korean artillery landed in undisputed North Korean territory.

...Detailed Information regarding this incident:

retrieved from wikipedia

08:20: North sends a telex message requesting a halt to the South's artillery training exercise.
10:00: South starts the artillery training exercise.
14:34: North starts firing shells (around 150, of which about 60 land on Yeonpyeong)
14:38: South conducts emergency sorties with two KF-16 fighters.
14:40: South deploys four F-15K fighters.
14:46: South conducts another emergency sortie with two KF-16 fighters.
14:47: South fires back with the first round of K-9 howitzers (50 shells).
14:50: The highest alert (Alert Jindotgae Hana) ever given for a local provocation is issued.
14:55: North stops firing temporarily.
15:12: North starts firing for the second time (20 shells, all of which landed on the island).
15:25: South resumes firing back with K-9 howitzers (30 shells).
15:30: South telexes the North's military general level talk representative requesting an immediate halt to artillery shelling.
15:40 – 16:00: The South's Joint Chiefs of Staff Han Min-gu and USFK Commander Walter L. Sharp have a video conference (a review of cooperative crisis management).
15:41: North stops firing.
16:30: First military casualty reported.
16:35 – 21:50: Foreign and National Security representatives have a meeting.
16:42: South stops firing.
18:40: Lee Hong-gi, the South's Joint Chief of Staff Director of Operations, holds a press briefing.
20:35 – 21:10: South Korean President Lee Myung-bak meets with his Joint Chief of Staff.[16][21]

South Korea artillery positions on these islands firing west would actually drop shells in undisputed North Korean territory. The South Korean artillery would have to fire south west to avoid North Korean territory.

Marine Navigation Map

The disputed territory is between lines A and B. Undisputed North Korea is North of line A (NLL). Undisputed South Korea territory is south of line B. Yeonpyeong island is point 1. South Korea claims they fired artillery from point 1 to the west and avoided undisputed North Korean territory. As the map clearly shows, undisputed North Korea territory is west, north and east of Yeonpyeong island.

IMO, South Korea should refrain from holding live fire exercises in the disputed areas.

 

[Kreskin]

Time to pack up the bags in Afghanistan (and Iraq for the US) and get to some ass kicking in Korea. Carpet bomb one of those high stepping parades. Would be great TV, if you can get it.