Man dies after Taser shock by police at Vancouver airport

[grumpydigger]

All that is needed is accountability and no double standard .... proper recruitment and training would be nice to.....not lowering the standards as the rcmp has announced ............They just dont seem to grasp how mad the people of canada are.... I guess that is just their arrogant s ...........................

 

[Scott Free]

I hope they get charged. The RCMP is the biggest criminal cartel in BC and it needs to be dealt with.

 

[Colpy]

All that is needed is accountability and no double standard .... proper recruitment and training would be nice to.....not lowering the standards as the rcmp has announced ............They just dont seem to grasp how mad the people of canada are.... I guess that is just their arrogant s ...........................

Absolutely!

Criminal negligence causing death

Obstructing justice

 

[JLM]

Absolutely!

Criminal negligence causing death

Obstructing justice

I personally feel that those whose duty it is to uphold and enforce the law, should be subject to double the penalty of the ordinary citizen when they break it. Yep, 28 years for perjury sounds good to me.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Dziekanski camp hopes Mounties get charged

By accepting the position on the Government Payroll, they're also accepting
the position of having the Public's trust. Violating the Public's trust by committing
a crime should be punished just as anyone else (not double anyone else) as
we do have one Criminal Code for all Canadians. I'm talking in general terms
here and not specificly about the Dziekanski death in trying to take a step back
to see the forest for the trees.

A big part of the problem in this instance is a perceived (real or not) double standard
of one set of laws the Public have to follow, and a different set that the Public that
carry a Badge get to follow....creating the ugly "us against them" mentality on both
sides of the issue. Double the penalty of the non-Badge carry'n Public will not help
eliminate the "us against them" mentality...and a walk on Manslaughter will not
help eliminate the "us against them" mentality.

The RCMP (and other Canadian Law Enforcement Agencies) need to demonstrate
the "You do the Crime, You do the Time" phrase applies to every Citizen in this
country whether they carry a Badge or not....fairly....with the existing laws in the
Criminal Code of Canada to help regain full public trust once again. That's part of
the answer, but only a part of the answer.

Another part of the answer is the "Police policing the Police" but that is fodder
for another Thread as it's a bit off topic from this Thread.

 

[#juan]

I have no sympathy for these guys. They tasered the guy unconscious and didn,t try to treat him and wouldn't allow anyone else to treat him. That is reckless disregard for human life, or criminal negligence at the very least......Charge them.

 

[VanIsle]

Do any of you read anything other then when it's the RCMP that are in trouble. Over the past few years many "heads" of many Canadian police forces have been fired or forced to retire so having the RCMP being taken care of by leaders from Ottawa isn't the problem. I think having a person in charge (The Commissoner)who has never been a police officer could be a problem. How do you steer the ship when you've never helped or participated in sailing it? From what I see, things have gone from bad to worse since they had a civilian take over. Just look how much China who apparantly lives in China, dictates the threads here on this forum and how everyone jumps to join him. He aids all of you into focusing on 4 members of the police rather than the Force as a whole. He leads you around by the nose helping you to form an opinion that re-enforces his own, rather than anyone looking, again, at the Force as a whole, and no one ever focuses on any of the good that is done. Why does he care if BC gets rid of the RCMP? Years ago it was city police that were all the bad guys. Then they raised the pay level and since they don't transfer people around (something that can be and usually is very disruptive to families)many of the RCMP left and were hired on by the city forces. That is all that would happen now anyway even if the man from China was successful in his quest to destroy the Force which will never happen. Cities cannot afford to start the training process for the numbers they would need for one thing and for another, something would have to give because they would then be responsible for 100% of the costs of paying for their policing and they are not right now.
Pay cuts would have to happen. City police forces usually have unions. City taxes would go up. Who would police the rural areas? Do you think the RCMP are going to send in 2 - 3 members for the little towns without regular members nearby? Gee, we could have it like the USA where some big Bubba comes to look after things wearing his big tin badge on the front of his hat or shirt. I guess you would all be more secure with that?
JLM - are you sure you only want them to get - what was it - 32 years? How about hanging them high. You are for capital punishment aren't you. You want the lives of 4 people when only one man used the taser under the orders of another man. How would all of you see that situation if it was the army? Would you say all 4 were guilty of killing a man. Would you say one man was guilty of killing a man. Would you say the man who ordered the shooting of the taser was the guilty one? Would you say the man who followed orders should be transfered and re-trained on the taser (since it seems right now that all police forces are going to continue it's use), that two of them should just be transfered (maybe a few months without pay for not telling the truth which again was probably ordered by some higher up)and the one who ordered the shooting be the one who is actually charged with the crime. His crime in this case would be abuse of authority (leading to a death)for which he should lose his job and his pension. I don't think you will ever see a repeat of any of this again.
Any police officer worth their salt will not only arrest the Mayor's son but will arrest the Mayor too if need be. That was proven in the Okanagan a couple of years or so ago.

 

[darkbeaver]

I disagree, for our law enforcement officers to have any credibility, when they screw up they have to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Otherwise the whole charade just becomes an exercise in "nudge nudge wink wink".

It's perspective I think, pretend they aren't our cops and the only mistake they made was getting filmed otherwise the lying pieces of chicken dung would have gotten away free and easy without this nasty expose in the media. It has been my opinion for quite some time that the whole exercise has long ago become "nudge nudge wink wink" at every concievable level. It's the preservation of that charade that's important in this case and nothing else not even the appalingly ****ty training these thuggies get nor misuse of police power in general. The facts not being persued are that tazers are extremely dangerous and at present it is a crap shoot wheather the victims live or die.
Further to that and along the lines of control and ownership, the mounties are certainly not in public control and they are most likely not in Canadian control.
The federal police are primary targets in any subversion.

 

[Ron in Regina]

It's time again for B.C. to have own police force

By accepting the position on the Government Payroll, they're also accepting
the position of having the Public's trust. Violating the Public's trust by committing
a crime should be punished just as anyone else (not double anyone else) as
we do have one Criminal Code for all Canadians. I'm talking in general terms
here and not specificly about the Dziekanski death in trying to take a step back
to see the forest for the trees.

A big part of the problem in this instance is a perceived (real or not) double standard
of one set of laws the Public have to follow, and a different set that the Public that
carry a Badge get to follow....creating the ugly "us against them" mentality on both
sides of the issue. Double the penalty of the non-Badge carry'n Public will not help
eliminate the "us against them" mentality...and a walk on Manslaughter will not
help eliminate the "us against them" mentality.

The RCMP (and other Canadian Law Enforcement Agencies) need to demonstrate
the "You do the Crime, You do the Time" phrase applies to every Citizen in this
country whether they carry a Badge or not....fairly....with the existing laws in the
Criminal Code of Canada to help regain full public trust once again. That's part of
the answer, but only a part of the answer.

Another part of the answer is the "Police policing the Police" but that is fodder
for another Thread as it's a bit off topic from this Thread.

No matter what Police Force (be it RCMP or BCPD?), the
problem (as I see it) isn't who we put in place for Law Enforcement,
but how a question of wrong-doing by Law Enforcement is actually
investigated....and who actually does that investigation...so as to be
(or to be seen to be) truly impartial in the eyes of the Public to remove
the double standard (or appearance of a double standard) of how the
Law is applied.

 

[china]

Comment: The growing Dziekanski scandal

National Post Published: Friday, April 24, 2009
More On This Story

• Dziekanski cover-up becoming worse than crime
  
• Robert Dziekanski

Story tools presented by

Canwest News ServiceThis screengrab from a bystander's video shows Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski shortly before he was Tasered by police.

Thanks to the latest testimony at the hearing into Robert Dziekanski's death, we now know the RCMP's sorry mishandling of the 2007 tragedy reached well beyond the four officers who Tasered the Polish traveller until he died.
Corporal Dale Carr, spokesman with a unit tasked with investigating the death, made clear that the four officers are just one link in a chain of command which takes for granted that misleading the public, misinforming journalists and covering up for one another is a routine part of their job.
Consider Cpl. Carr's testimony. He told the inquiry, headed by former Appeal Court justice Thomas Braidwood, that within hours of Mr. Dziekanski's death at Vancouver International Airport, he attended a meeting of homicide investigators, and twice watched an amateur video showing the confrontation that led to Dziekanski's death. Making notes, Cpl. Carr wrote that Dziekanski grabbed a computer, ignored instructions from police, swung at the officers and continued to resist once knocked to the ground by the first Taser strike.
None of that was true. Nevertheless, he passed the imagined narrative on to another RCMP spokesman, and stood by him as he related the falsehoods to reporters. (He claims he wasn't really listening.)When it became evident later that the information was wrong, a superior told him not to correct the record. Nor was he allowed to acknowledge the existence of the damning video, which the force gave up only after its owner went to court.
All of this comes amidst a de-bate about how much latitude officers should be given to use Tasers to subdue victims. In this regard, the Dziekanski revelations have done little to bolster the RCMP's claim that its officers should be able to use such weapons at their own discretion. By brutalizing a confused traveller, and then apparently conspiring to obscure the truth about the encounter, the RCMP has squandered much of the esteem in which Canadians hold this institution.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Ottawa simply lacks accountability with the provinces, the arm's length relationship with this federal agency is far too remote. Ottawa simply has great trouble taking into account local or provincial sensibilities. The premier of BC or the legislature simply has no power over it.

For a growing, dynamic province like BC, the RCMP is done because it is too stodgy, bureaucratic, and untruthful. We need a provincial police force run by British Columbians and accountable to BCers

Currently, there is no party in Ottawa with the desire and ability to put pressure on the RCMP for BC. Dump'em.

 

[lone wolf]

International airports will still be RCMP's beat because they are under federal jurisdiction.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The airport killing by the RCMP of Robert D is just one of many examples why a BC police force is needed. This was the absolute worst example possible that just raises so many questions that usually never see the light of day.

 

[JLM]

By Jon Ferry, The ProvinceApril 22, 2009Comments (27)





Province columnist Jon Ferry

Photograph by: Les Bazso, The Province




It's not often I agree with the B.C. Green Party. In fact, I'm tired of its whole job-destroying granola mindset. However, I do applaud the party's bold, timely call for the RCMP to be replaced in this province by a police force that's more accountable to the people.
Have I been smoking something? No. I just think we should return to having a provincial force in B.C., as we did from 1859 until 1950, and that the scandal-ridden RCMP should stick to being a national police agency, rather like the FBI.
As for the contract policing services the Mounties now provide to various Lower Mainland municipalities, they'd be better done by a single metro police service. The same's true in Metro Victoria.
And I'm far from alone in my view. In fact, retired B.C. provincial court judge Wally Craig has just e-mailed me a new report by Simon Fraser University criminology Prof. Robert Gordon and ex-Vancouver police chief Bob Stewart strongly making the case for a Metro Vancouver police service. The hard-hitting "discussion paper" points out our region is the last large metro area in Canada not to be policed by a single force.
"The police-related problems of the Metro Vancouver area are largely regional problems, not purely local, municipal problems and are best dealt with by a police service that works across the whole area in a co-ordinated way," it says.
Now, given intense public disquiet over the drug-gang war and the RCMP's dishonourable role in Robert Dziekanski's death, I believe there's firm public support for a single regional force with clear lines of accountability. So-called integrated units of officers from a hodge-podge of RCMP detachments and municipal forces simply don't cut it.
Sure, Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan and other mayors outside the City of Vancouver favour the status quo. So do some residents, especially in cozy communities like Port Moody, Delta and West Vancouver.
Many ratepayers, though, want change. And it's an issue that's resonating in this election campaign, especially since high-profile former West Van police chief Kash Heed is running for the Liberals.
Heed hit the headlines in 2007 when he urged public debate on police amalgamation, only to draw a reprimand from Jon Les, then B.C.'s solicitor-general. But Les first backed down, then stepped down. And Heed now is being touted as a future solicitor-general, in position to make long-overdue changes before the RCMP contract with B.C. expires in 2012.
Heed tells me his Vancouver-Fraserview constituents are very concerned about crime, and regional policing is part of the discussion: "I very well think that we need to seriously look at whether or not that's going to deliver a better police service for us."
For this, Heed would appear to have wide support, including from NDP crime critic Mike Farnworth and Liberal Attorney-General Wally Oppal, who said years ago the police patchwork made no sense. It still doesn't.
jferry@theprovince.com
© Copyright (c) The Province

What? Another level of bureaucracy? Fix what we have before bringing more on board.

 

[Francis2004]

The talk of a new police force in BC is all great an dandy until people will have to fork out the money for that force..

It was but a few years ago that Surrey was looking at kicking the RCMP out of Surrey and now they are looking at putting the centre for all RCMP operations in Surrey. Why, because the cost of operations was too great for the city to handle and when it really came down to it, tax payers made it clear they were NOT going to pay extra for policing we already have.

Now back to my younger days on living in Quebec where the QPP and across the bridge the OPP would had officers that looked like Mafia enforcers. Often the day when you were pulled over to have a front or tail light smashed after being followed on darn roads by these goons.. All knew they made sure you knew "Who was the law" in the back roads..

The same can be said of the VPD, Port Moody police and many other small departments that report to a city hall that has little control over the Police Chief.

OK now that I have trashed them let me say that most Police officers are for the most part doing a good job and honest and that I still have the most respect for them.. The few that have the power of the badge go to their heads will always be part of our system regardless of them being RCMP or Independent Police departments.

Do you really think changing the uniforms will change the officers attitudes.. I highly doubt that and in fact may make it worse..

My opinion..

 

[lone wolf]

The airport killing by the RCMP of Robert D is just one of many examples why a BC police force is needed. This was the absolute worst example possible that just raises so many questions that usually never see the light of day.

It will still be RCMP patrolling the airports. International ports of entry are federal.

 

[Francis2004]

It will still be RCMP patrolling the airports. International ports of entry are federal.

Agreed

 

[Cannuck]

How can anybody not like these guys

YouTube - On the Great White Trail 1938

 

[L Gilbert]

DB's right. The Royal Mickey Mouse Police are but a caricature of what they used to be.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The talk of a new police force in BC is all great an dandy until people will have to fork out the money for that force..

It was but a few years ago that Surrey was looking at kicking the RCMP out of Surrey and now they are looking at putting the centre for all RCMP operations in Surrey. Why, because the cost of operations was too great for the city to handle and when it really came down to it, tax payers made it clear they were NOT going to pay extra for policing we already have.

My opinion..

Surrey residents shouldn't have to pay more for the same policing. That's inept. Surrey, along with the rest of Metro Vancouver need a regional police force.

Secondly, the money that went to Ottawa for the RCMP will go to Victoria instead, it will be a wash.

You'd think with the Robert D case and gangs shooting all over Vancouver, something like this would be a priority in the BC election. Our policing patchwork is no help these days.