Man dies after Taser shock by police at Vancouver airport

[L Gilbert]

Yes, I agree that it is likely both: that it is a profession that attracts the sort that loves to have power over other people and that the newsmedia prefer to stick to the gloom and doom sort of story.
I think the psychologists that screen recruits must be overloaded with gov'tal bureaucracy and tend to slide more idiots through that shouldn't be considered for police work for the sake of expediency than they used to let through.
As far as I know, police are specially trained to be able to keep their wits about them when in difficult circumstances. Now, it doesn't seem to be that way. But I think the newsmedia is at fault for this illusion because they sensationalise things waaaaay beyond the rational. News is business now, not a societal service.
Also, regular folks don't think what would happen if they take an unusal circumstance and blurt it to the press. Besides that, most people don't think about what they hear in the media, they tend to get emotional over a lot of what they hear and lose their wits. The media feeds on this. They want people to be emotional and unthinking.
Anyway, for as long as I was a firefighter and the many cops I have met over the years, there are only three that stick out in my mind as being wrong for the job. And I have met dozens.

 

[Praxius]

Tasers can cause cardiac arrest: heart specialists

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080521/taser_doctor_080521/20080521?hub=Canada

VANCOUVER -- Two heart specialists told an inquiry into the use of Tasers on Tuesday that a jolt from the weapons can "almost certainly" cause heart problems and possibly even sudden cardiac arrest.


And a senior police officer who trains others on how to use the Taser said his training from the company that manufactures the device suggests the Taser does not lead to cardiac arrest.


Dr. Michael Janusz, a heart surgeon and professor of surgery at the University of British Columbia, told the inquiry that based on his study of available literature on Taser use, "almost all physicians would conclude that Tasers can induce ventricular fibrillation."


The hearing was told ventricular fibrillation is an extremely rapid rhythm in the heart's lower chambers, leading to ineffective contractions of the heart.


"In summary, Tasers almost certainly can cause cardiac arrest in humans, particularly in people with underlying heart disease," Janusz said.


A spokesman for Taser International has told the inquiry that Tasers are not risk free and that the term "non-lethal" does not mean safe.


Taser International has maintained there's a big difference between a Taser jolt causing death and contributing to death.


Staff Sgt. Joe Spindor, of the New Westminster Police Department, told the inquiry Tuesday his Taser training is based on what he was taught by Taser International.


"The information we receive is that it's safe to use on subjects," Spindor said.


He said he hadn't heard of Janusz's opinion on possible cardiac arrest.


"No. I've actually heard the opposite from Taser in my instruction."


Spindor said his officers don't get training in first aid or cardiopulmonary resuscitation.

But the officer also told the hearing he tells his students that a possible outcome of Taser use is injury or death.


Spindor said he teaches that the Taser can be used if a subject is displaying active resistance, though he conceded that the term is not written in his Taser policy.


Commission counsel Patrick McGowan asked if a person is being actively resistant if, after being advised he is under arrest, he starts to flee.


Spindor said that would be considered active resistance, as would behaviour an officer considered to be potentially dangerous or violent.


"The term active resistance isn't in our policy," he said, adding that the words should be added "to make it more clear."


The hearing also heard from Dr. Charles Kerr, another UBC professor and a heart surgeon, who said based on his reading of animal studies and the agitated state of most people who receive a Taser shock, he has concluded a Taser jolt could induce ventricular fibrillation.


"Whatever the cause of death in patients receiving Taser discharges, there does appear to be the potential of a cardiac arrest situation, as has been demonstrated on a number of occasions," Kerr said.


In a state of ventricular fibrillation, "the heart cannot pump blood and, unless it is interrupted quickly, sudden cardiac death will follow."


Kerr and Janusz agreed outside the inquiry that the Taser may still be preferable to a firearm or a club.


"My personal opinion is that they are probably better than a bullet," Kerr said.


But I think we need to have the understanding that. . . there is no question that there have been situations of sudden death," Kerr told reporters.


Janusz said each situation that a police officer uses a Taser has to be judged independently.


"Certainly in many or most situations it's a safer alternative than a gun or a club.

"But I believe the risks are there and you have to be cognitive of the risks and be prepared to deal with any consequence arising from it."


The current phase of the inquiry is looking at the use of the weapon in general and the next phase will look specifically at the death of Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver airport last fall, after he was hit with an RCMP Taser.


The inquiry has heard that some police force policies use the term "active resistance" as a criteria Taser use.

So the officer seems to lean more towards what a corporation will tell him about the harms involved in the use of their product, over doctors who specialize in what occurs during the effects of their product?

I mean, duh.... I seriously don't understand how people couldn't think that about 50,000 volts being shot into your body, passing through your heart, wouldn't have some side effects like killing you.

 

[MHz]

So can they be used to restart a heart also? Just give them another jolt more or less right on the heart.

 

[tracy]

The officer said that he tells his students that the possible outcome of taser use is injury or death. Doesn't sound like he's denying the obvious to me. He just seems to say the same thing that the doctors do: that it can be preferable to a gun or a club even though in rare cases it can kill.

 

[Lester]

I've said it before - I think i'd rather be shot(except for the brain,heart, liver or anything else that I only have one in inventory)

 

[tracy]

I've said it before - I think i'd rather be shot(except for the brain,heart, liver or anything else that I only have one in inventory)

I've seen gun shot wounds and I'd rather be tasered!:lol: Maybe they should give people a choice before they actually do it?

 

[karrie]

I've said it before - I think i'd rather be shot(except for the brain,heart, liver or anything else that I only have one in inventory)

considering the path of destruction through the tissues of your body, chances are good a gunshot will hit something you only have one of. Keep in mind that the tiny little bullet hole leaves a wake of destruction through your tissue roughly the diameter of a woman's fist. The statistics are highly in your favor to survive a tasering. And I'm willing to bet the recovery is a might bit quicker.

 

[MHz]

Perhaps they should move onto using rocksalt. Scatter load or long distance. Once the salt embeds itself into the flesh, all other thoughts halt and the victim has his full attention on his wounds. The salt eventually absorbs into the blood and is expelled by natural body processes. the salt might even aid halting any bleeding.

Warning, if you try to remove the salt by extraction the victim will probably try and kill you for 'aggravating' an already tender area. So make sure they are out cold.

 

[Tonington]

Well of course they are better than being shot. That's not really the dilemma though. If it were such a choice, well there would have been many people shot by police for not laying on their stomach. It's really more like a choice between a shot of pepper spray or a baton.

It's the lackadaisical manner in which the weapon is being employed that has people up in arms, and the advent of cellular camera phones and other digital media that makes the images readily available.

 

[Praxius]

Naw, once enough people start freaking about the tasers and the risks of death from them, all that will be done is they'll replace those tasers with that new US Microwave Beam thing they've been working on that cooks your skin and makes large crowds disperse quickly... as they claim that's not harmless.

 

[CBC News]

Have you been hit by a stun gun? Tell us your story

More...

 

[Kreskin]

At least once a week.

 

[Scott Free]

I am not so foolish as to be unable to recognize what someone in body armour with a weapon intends.

I avoid contact with such people. So far, to this point, that has worked for me and I have not been assaulted.

 

[Colpy]

I am not so foolish as to be unable to recognize what someone in body armour with a weapon intends.

I avoid contact with such people. So far, to this point, that has worked for me and I have not been assaulted.

Funny, I spent 10 years in body armour carrying a weapon.........and I never assaulted anyone.

I worked with a lot of guys in body armour carrying weapons.........I never heard of ANY of them assaulting anyone.

We knew and hung with a bunch of cops.....and I never saw, or heard of, them assaulting anyone.

A little paranoid, Mr. Free?

Mind you, I firmly believe that the use of tasers by police has gotten way out of hand.....they should be classified as a lethal weapon, only to be used "when you or another person are in immediate danger of death or greivous bodily harm". Which is the same prerequisite for the use of firearms.

 

[karrie]

No stun gun, but I've been electrified (I get corrected by the electricians in my family if I say electrocuted) twice, and gone off of Paxil (which felt worse), so I have a vague idea of what it must be like. lol.

 

[Scott Free]

Funny, I spent 10 years in body armour carrying a weapon.........and I never assaulted anyone.

Sure, isn't that what all the fascist's henchmen say? "Just following orders."

A little paranoid, Mr. Free?

I don't call staying alive paranoid.

 

[Colpy]

Sure, isn't that what all the fascist's henchmen say? "Just following orders."

I wouldn't know, I've never met a "fascist's henchman".

I don't call staying alive paranoid.

Definitely paranoid. Smoking too much dope over a long period of time will do that to ya. Quit now, and you might be all right..............

 

[Canaduh]

Yet another shot at turning the blame from the criminal onto the Police, if you get shot by a tazer then your obviously doing something you shouldn't be end of story. Don't do something your not supposed to do or be where your not supposed to be and you will never know what it feels like.

 

[Nuggler]

:tard: Yup,

I been stunn mos o my life

I used to gun the car................Aint been hit with one yet

That qualify??

I been hit with a lef hook what stunn me some

I been kick in da nuts, and dat reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeely does stun one

ow

But, a stun gun..............no

But, that kick................................well a stun gun might be worse

I doubt it

Hadn't been some buddies there, I mighta got kicked some more

But they were

And I wasn't

Good luck eh:smile:

Yep, it follows me aroun

I've been shot

With a .22

And that hurt

most painful

Stun gun, no

Yer gonna haveto go somehweres else to get that info

Why?

Who gives a Sh!t

Stunned gun............most guns are

the people who usem too

I said............"most"

That ain't you, Colpy. Nor me

I happened to put my arm on a milk cooler when my uncle was testing the electric fence which he used to keep the cows in the pasture, and the fence touched the cooler and chucked me across the drive shed floor about 5 feet or so...........but, a stun gun, .........no. Good thing I wasn't trying to have sex with the coooler eh!!! ha ha:roll::banghead: goddam that hurt!!!

I was climbin up in a apple tree whilst goin to get the cows on the same uncle's farm, and fell out and broke my goddam arm, and the goddam cows knew I was hurt and rubbed me against the fence for 20 fukkin feet or so...............cows is mean eh..........they may be stupid, but that don't stop them from beeeen mean...............but a stun gun............no....bet they hurt eh!!

Thank god I aint never been shot with no stunned gun.

 

[lone wolf]

Can't say anyone's ever thrown one at me....

Stick a screwdriver into a spark plug lead and get somebody to crank the engine over (or just do it with the motor running) and you get a mild version. Shocking!

Y'know, for a week after, I didn't have the finger numbness, hand twitches and arm pain I've lived with ever since ulnar nerve trauma in that accident. Think maybe I'll go play with my car?