Kelly McParland: How decades of Liberal indifference created Danielle Smith

The_Foxer

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Aug 9, 2022
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$8.64B/$37.1B= A Shitload. If about a quarter of your personal revenue or income was removed so a Politician could get more votes in Vancouver/GTA/Montreal/Etc…would that still be minor?

The question was asked "would they be unhappy about the liberals causing a major blow to their economy" - i answered they wouldn't be happy if there was a MINOR one, never mind a major one.

You seem to have thought that means that the major one is a minor one. That's not what i said. There is no disruption to their economy at all that sask would be happy about even if the economic impact was tree fiddy :)

It shouldn’t play well anywhere in Canada if we’re not being divided amongst ourselves for political gamesmanship.
Sure, you're absolutely right of course. But it has for at least 150 years so far and it's not likely to change. There have always been policies that hurt the west to please the east. It used to cost more to ship goods east than west to prevent any competative western industries popping up, there were policies in place up to the end of ww1 to limit population growth in the west to make sure political power was in the east, there was the original NEP.... need i go on?

So this is just a continuation of that long standing tradition. While we occasionally see a gov't or PM who tries to do what they can to reverse that, obviously Justin isn't going to fall into that category.

Go figure. Not much incentive. Would you vote for a political entity that wants to decimate 1/4 of your economic activity
They weren't voting for the liberals before that either :) So the libs have abandoned it. It's what the americans would call a 'flyover province".

How does going after fertilizer affect Vancouver Or Montreal Or Toronto directly?
Food prices. those people in the city aren't stupid, they realize that if there's less food and it costs more to make that's going to hit them. But again you seem to miss what's being said. I said it was 'iffy' Not that it affected the cites. I just don't think people in toronto really understand what the issue with fertilizer is so it's not selling, he's not getting the traction he wanted, meanwhile the pushback is considerable, so politically it's not been worth it.
Especially if there’s only a “Catchphrase” to transition to. All hat & no Cowboy.
ANd that right there would be the problem. You can't have a transition without something to transition into and yet that's exactly what Trudeau is trying to do. So the only thing he'll 'transition' people into is unemployment.

Agriculture isn’t just Fertilizer, but diesel for equipment, & propane for grain dryers, and so on & so forth… and everything has to be shipped both to and from each farm, which is more diesel…

Sure. Again, no argument there. And obviously he's got plans for diesel too. But - when we're talking about things he's raised as part of the "just transition" (remembering there's no actual definitive plan or document) Fertilizer is a big one that he raises and he's made a few probes in that direction feeling out public sentiment over it.
Yep. Some parts more than others depending on the scapegoats to get those Vancouver/GTA/Montreal votes…

Vancouver is too competitive for him to bet on and there's just not enough seats. He's actually not doing well there at all and the lower mainland frequently goes more blue and orange than red. He's already written off the prairies. He might get a seat or three in alberta/sask but that's useless to him. He knows his only path to success in the next election comes from rock solid support in the gta and other parts of ontario to deny it to the CPC and maintaining his ground in Quebec. Nothing else will matter and that's where his focus will be.

Which is why he can attack oil with impunity. Support for pipelines and a much slower 'transition' over decades is much higher in bc than back east - but he'll ignore that and go hard to block PP. The gun issue is another example, tho that one is blowing up on him.

SO he can afford to trash the alberta oil industry and not provide any relief. You know - to save the planet.
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
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Our O&G reserves make Alberta's a joke. You'd have to have to be crazy to think that the Phanerozoic ended at the border.

If you've paid attention you'd know Phanerozoic bullshit is highly interesting to me but my MSc and career life is rooted in the Pre Cambrian THO aka Trans Hudson Orogen and the birth of North America where the Churchhill Craton smashed into the Superior Craton. Copper and gold galore.

Shit like this.

View attachment 17059

Yup, it is what you think it is. 22%Au 36%Cu the rest Fe Si Mg S C and trace elements.


Cool shit but anywhore . From SK geology to politics.

It's taken Saskatchewan 60 years to recover from Communism and Tommy Douglas but we still can't tap the best oil on the continent because it is zoned as potash. Great money there but halites aren't as valuable as oil. 100 years maybe 200 but it'll be tapped.

But what the fuck do I know about the impact of today's attack on SK oil and gas.

Don't get me started on the Williston and Athabasca Basin resources both under attack and yet to be developed.

.Alberta....pffffb. Chump change.
Yep with over a third of it trapped on the North side of the potash zone making transporting it to expensive to go around the zone to the West or cross the border into Man. putting it in the direct path of the NEB
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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1675826299176.jpeg
Smith and Trudeau met briefly to discuss shared aspirations and concerns over pending federal legislation, dubbed Just Transition, aimed at helping Canadian workers adapt to the global move to increasing reliance on renewable energy.

The short meeting began with Trudeau reaching down to shake hands, with Smith offering a hesitant palm down hand in return, prompting Trudeau to take it and hold it in place with his thumb on top as she delivered a hint of a smile and he grinned broadly while the cameras clicked and whirred.

Smith, in Ottawa with other premiers for talks on health-care funding. The premiers had been asking for an immediate annual top-up to the Canada Health Transfer of $28-billion, plus a minimum 5-per-cent annual increase. That would have totalled well over $300-billion in new spending over 10 years.

The federal government is offering premiers $46.2-billion in new health care funding over 10 years, a figure that is significantly less than what they had demanded, but which they appeared resigned to accepting after a meeting Tuesday with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau….but that’s a different story.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
9,132
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View attachment 17237
Smith and Trudeau met briefly to discuss shared aspirations and concerns over pending federal legislation, dubbed Just Transition, aimed at helping Canadian workers adapt to the global move to increasing reliance on renewable energy.

The short meeting began with Trudeau reaching down to shake hands, with Smith offering a hesitant palm down hand in return, prompting Trudeau to take it and hold it in place with his thumb on top as she delivered a hint of a smile and he grinned broadly while the cameras clicked and whirred.

Smith, in Ottawa with other premiers for talks on health-care funding. The premiers had been asking for an immediate annual top-up to the Canada Health Transfer of $28-billion, plus a minimum 5-per-cent annual increase. That would have totalled well over $300-billion in new spending over 10 years.

The federal government is offering premiers $46.2-billion in new health care funding over 10 years, a figure that is significantly less than what they had demanded, but which they appeared resigned to accepting after a meeting Tuesday with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau….but that’s a different story.

So the issues with health care will continue. Shocker there.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Liberals point to several actions taken to date that are indicative of what future planning might look like.

For example, building retrofits and renovations, due to $4.4 billion in federal spending, will create “thousands of jobs in construction, manufacturing, sales, clean technology and financial services,” the government says.

Both Alberta Premier Danielle Smith and Rachel Notley, the NDP leader, have called on the Liberals to scrap the plan.

“We are not going to be shutting down our oil and natural gas industry. We are not going to be transitioning our workers — who are in good, high-paying, meaningful, important jobs — into installing solar panels, which is the idiocy (federal Green Party Leader) Elizabeth May was first proposing when this kind of thing came out,” Smith has said.

Federal Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre has also spoken out against the plan.

Back in 2015, there was a meeting in Paris, France, to discuss climate change policy. The result was the Paris Agreement, an international, legally binding treaty for fighting climate change. Canada is a signatory. The United States is, too (Donald Trump withdrew from it in 2017, but Joe Biden re-entered the treaty in 2021).

In the preamble to the agreement, signatories are asked to take into account “the imperatives of a just transition of the workforce and the creation of decent work and quality jobs in accordance with nationally defined development priorities” in any climate change plans.

It anticipated that at least some of those who work in extractive industries will lose their jobs as a result of any shift towards a greener economy and the (eventual) declining demand for oil and gas.

The idea for a just transition first originated with trade unions looking to protect the livelihoods of working people. That’s the theory behind “Just Transition” but what if it affects Quebec & not just NFLD & SK & AB & BC? Then what?
Federal Natural Resources Minister Jonathan Wilkinson said recently he hopes to unveil the government’s just transition plan in the early part of 2023.

He also said his biggest concern is not that jobs will be lost, but that there will be so many jobs it will be difficult to fill all of them. (?)

According to that document, Wilkinson was told the jobs of more than 2.7 million Canadians, or 13.5% of the nation’s total workforce, will face “significant” disruptions in employment because of federal climate change programs.

“The transition to a low carbon economy will have an uneven impact across sectors, occupations and regions and create significant labour market disruptions,” the memo said.

Alberta Premier Danielle Smith said she “felt sick” reading the contents of the federal government briefing memo.

While not all of these jobs will be lost in the transition to green energy, when federal environment commissioner Jerry DeMarco examined the Trudeau government’s just transition strategy for the energy sector alone last year, he basically concluded there wasn’t one for 170,000 workers in the fossil fuels sector living in 50 communities.

Instead, he said, the government was relying on existing programs, like employment insurance (?), for laid-off workers and what new programs existed weren’t being monitored to determine their effectiveness.
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Finally, some details on this “Just Transition” thing we’ve been hearing about for years as if it was real:

The plan released Friday is the first time the government has laid out in some detail what it proposes to do, including renaming the idea from the “just transition” plan — a concept that has been criticized for implying those working in oil and gas are in some way are unjust — to the “sustainable jobs plan.”

The term itself refers to the idea that governments guide workers displaced by environmental policies towards new jobs. It has, however, taken on a somewhat different meaning in Alberta, where politicians have suggested it’s a plan to shut down the oil and gas sector and impoverish Canada’s richest province.

At this point, the plan is a plan for more plans, better data collection and further engagement across various groups and regions in Canada. It establishes frameworks and councils to continue the discussions; it’s light on figures and timelines, includes no new funding and doesn’t put a specific figure on just how many jobs might be created.

The 32-page “Sustainable Jobs Plan” says if Canada plays its cards right, the clean energy economy will create so many jobs there may not be enough workers to fill them. But some of it will require the traditional oil and gas sectors to “aggressively” lower the greenhouse gas emissions produced as the fuels are extracted.

“Implementing a federal plan of this magnitude in areas of exclusive provincial jurisdiction doesn’t merely require piecemeal ‘discussions’ with the provinces, it requires outright provincial approval and cooperation,” Smith said in a statement. “Alberta has not been involved in any such approvals, nor included in the development of the plan published today.”

The plan, released Friday while the political world was paying attention to the report on the Liberals’ use of the Emergencies Act to quash the Freedom Convoy protests last year, is to guide the first two years of the transition — further plans will be released every five years after 2025.
 
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pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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Finally, some details on this “Just Transition” thing we’ve been hearing about for years as if it was real:

The plan released Friday is the first time the government has laid out in some detail what it proposes to do, including renaming the idea from the “just transition” plan — a concept that has been criticized for implying those working in oil and gas are in some way are unjust — to the “sustainable jobs plan.”

The term itself refers to the idea that governments guide workers displaced by environmental policies towards new jobs. It has, however, taken on a somewhat different meaning in Alberta, where politicians have suggested it’s a plan to shut down the oil and gas sector and impoverish Canada’s richest province.

At this point, the plan is a plan for more plans, better data collection and further engagement across various groups and regions in Canada. It establishes frameworks and councils to continue the discussions; it’s light on figures and timelines, includes no new funding and doesn’t put a specific figure on just how many jobs might be created.

The 32-page “Sustainable Jobs Plan” says if Canada plays its cards right, the clean energy economy will create so many jobs there may not be enough workers to fill them. But some of it will require the traditional oil and gas sectors to “aggressively” lower the greenhouse gas emissions produced as the fuels are extracted.

“Implementing a federal plan of this magnitude in areas of exclusive provincial jurisdiction doesn’t merely require piecemeal ‘discussions’ with the provinces, it requires outright provincial approval and cooperation,” Smith said in a statement. “Alberta has not been involved in any such approvals, nor included in the development of the plan published today.”

The plan, released Friday while the political world was paying attention to the report on the Liberals’ use of the Emergencies Act to quash the Freedom Convoy protests last year, is to guide the first two years of the transition — further plans will be released every five years after 2025.
Who says the provinces have exclusive jurisdiction ? Just watch me .
 
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Taxslave2

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The plan is to provide government union jobs to as many party members as possible. All others will be sent to re-education camps at OntariOWE universities.
 

Dixie Cup

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Sep 16, 2006
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Well there's not really enough support for that right now even in Alberta. Which is surprising, i would have thought it would be at an all time high. Which i guess is why Smith is going for 'separation lite' as her pitch
As an Albertan I can only speak for myself (obviously) but while Albertans are not happy with the Feds, they are also patriotic & love Canada which is why they're not "into" separation is my take on things. I know I don't support separation but if things get really bad, I might change my mind. As it is, it's no where close to that currently & I'm optimistic with the right leaders, we can accomplish much not only for Alberta but for the country. Might well be "wishful thinking" tho'. I think Smith may be on the right track but only time will tell.

With an election coming up, things are going to get interesting. The NDP are promising all kinds of things which will likely never come to fruition under their leadership & have nothing but contempt for Smith. It's too close to call but I'm hoping that people remember the last NDP government which turned out not to be what Albertans were expecting. Not only that, the provincial NDP usually follows the Federal NDP which is not the case with other provincial parties.
 

Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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As an Albertan I can only speak for myself (obviously) but while Albertans are not happy with the Feds, they are also patriotic & love Canada which is why they're not "into" separation is my take on things. I know I don't support separation but if things get really bad, I might change my mind. As it is, it's no where close to that currently & I'm optimistic with the right leaders, we can accomplish much not only for Alberta but for the country. Might well be "wishful thinking" tho'. I think Smith may be on the right track but only time will tell.

With an election coming up, things are going to get interesting. The NDP are promising all kinds of things which will likely never come to fruition under their leadership & have nothing but contempt for Smith. It's too close to call but I'm hoping that people remember the last NDP government which turned out not to be what Albertans were expecting. Not only that, the provincial NDP usually follows the Federal NDP which is not the case with other provincial parties.

Except right now there is no right leadership in any party. So guess we just have to keep waiting for someone to magically be awesome for every area of Canada, right?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Except right now there is no right leadership in any party. So guess we just have to keep waiting for someone to magically be awesome for every area of Canada, right?
And for every single voter (and those who couldn't be arsed) in Canada.

“I didn’t vote for him, but he’s my president. And I hope he does a good job”
--John Wayne, speaking of JFK

Maybe "magically awesome" requires a little maturity on the part of the whiners in the cheap seats.
 
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Serryah

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And for every single voter (and those who couldn't be arsed) in Canada.

“I didn’t vote for him, but he’s my president. And I hope he does a good job”
--John Wayne, speaking of JFK

Maybe "magically awesome" requires a little maturity on the part of the whiners in the cheap seats.

I didn't vote Trudeau last time but then I knew he was doing a shit job.

If PP gets in next election - no, I won't be voting for him - then I would do as I did for Harper; hope he does a good job.

(Meanwhile I hope that Singh nor Trudeau gets in, but who knows)