It Seems Impossible (Declaring the Holocaust a Myth)

[Liberalman]

How do Americans feel about Israeli settlers in the 'occupied territories'

In 1967 Israel won more land because of the Arabs failed attempt to rid them so the land belongs to Israel.

Now you are asking Americans on occupied lands and since America is occupying Indian and Mexican lands and British lands can you really value their opinion?

But then again all lands is occupied in all the world

 

[Goober]

Does a website justify having nukes pointed at you? Certainly you know Israel has real ones already pointed at various targets in Iran, that would include civilian only targets.
If Greenland points a nuke at Canada we have the right to install something that will defend us against that sort of attack. Iran would be harming themselves by setting off a n-bomb upwind. Their way to 'win' is to have a strong defense inside their own borders, having to nuke yourself is not a very effective method to win anything.
How do Americans feel about Israeli settlers in the 'occupied territories' getting cash from the American Evangelicans that are tax-exempt while the same sorts of 'gifts' are withheld from the victims of natural/unnatural disasters in the US? The price tag is mostly passed onto the tax-payer with/without their consent. The push in the media is to accept that and perhaps even chip in even more if at all possible.

No a website does not justify that and you know that as well as i - It is the Iranian Govts position toward Jews - Extermination - I figure that qualifies.

Next - Iran is the biggest exporter of Terror and supporter of terror groups - Having Nukes with a Govt that is split along many liners, hard liners to the Theocrats - What happens when the place falls apart and civil war ensues. And Iran is not far from another revolution.

 

[petros]

Keep this in mind......

In Canada, the truth is not a legal defense.

 

[earth_as_one]

The number quoted for as long as I can remember is 6 million. Now I would think the average reasonable guy wouldn't expect it to necessarily be exactly 6 million, but would expect it to be closer to 6 million than 5 or 7 million and that's all I have to say about that. :smile:

What about the other estimated 5-7 million people who were also rounded up for extermination, loaded onto the same trains who were also gassed and incinerated in the same death camps as Jews? Do they count as holocaust victims too, or do holocaust victims have to be Jewish to count? Do other holocaust victims like the Roma, who are also a people without land like the Jews? Romani people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During World War II, the Nazis embarked on systematic attempt at genocide of the Roma... ...The total number of victims has been variously estimated at between 220,000 to 1,500,000; even the lowest number would count as one of the largest mass murders in history.

It seems to me, these people have continued to be persecuted even after they were also targeted by the Nazis for genocide. How come their holocaust deaths are not as tragic as Jewish Holocaust deaths? Denying Roma genocide has never led to prison time for anyone as it has frequently for denying Jewish genocide. The Roma were also a "people without land". How come they never got a "land without people" like the Jews did?

My point is not to deny that millions of people were killed in this fashion. IMO, all WWII deaths were tragic. My point is that while the Jewish genocide by Nazis was significant and important, it was one of many atrocities committed during WWII.

A second point I'm trying to make is that since WW II, the holocaust has been used to justify a Zionist ethnic cleansing war which started in 1947 and continues to this day. It has been used to obfuscate/justify the oppression and injustice suffered by millions of people who had nothing to do with the Jewish genocide in Europe

And finally a third point. The holocaust has also been used to shakedown banks and intimidate governments.
The Holocaust Industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A fourth point. Anyone who questions the 6 million Jewish Holocaust victims number or comes to any other conclusions which do not align precisely with the accepted Holocaust narrative will be accused by opportunistic people as Holocaust deniers and in many cases face criminal persecution. My reference above to the estimated 220,000 to 1,500,000 Roma Holocaust victims, would be considered an example of Holocaust denial, since it includes both the lowest and highest estimates, rather than just the highest estimate given as a definitive fact. The number of Jews is died in this atrocity is not known precisely. An exact number is not known, nor does it need to be known, since the approximate scale of this atrocity is known.


So yes the holocaust happened. While the exact number of people who died is uncertain, it is certain that millions of people perished in the holocaust.

I define a Holocaust victim as any civilian exterminated by Nazis because of who they were, rather than what they did. Jews make up the biggest identifiable group of Holocaust victims at about 50% of the total.

IMO, little difference exits between people who deny the Holocaust happened, and people who deny the Holocaust victim label to millions of non-Jewish civilians who were also systematically exterminated by the Nazis. Especially abhorrent are the people who use the Holocaust to justify oppression and injustice or acquire wealth.

 

[MHz]

It is the Iranian Govts position toward Jews - Extermination - I figure that qualifies.

Prove it, their latest acquisition has been three S-300 defensive systems. That is hardly a means to exterminate anybody. The ones on a conquest to destroy Nations are the US and Israel. Some Jews couldn't be bribed to leave Iran by the Govt of Israel so I'm not convinced your statement has facts to back it up. It would seem that Israel has Mossad and other Israeli and American covert agencies waging a campaign to create instability inside Iran. That is an act of war as far as I am concerned and it it is only going to escalate if the 'accusers' are not confronted to show proof rather than the endless string of articles that are without substance.

 

[The Old Medic]

I have personally spoken with Germans that worked in the Concentration Camps. They believed that what was being done was fully justified.

I have been to several of those camps. I have seen the gas chambers, the crematorians, the barracks AND the written records of the people killed.

I served with personnel that helped liberate some of those camps.

Anyone that claims that the Holocaust did not happen is a complete and utter liar and an idiot.

And keep in mind that although 6 million Jews were murdered, but so were about 7 million non-Jews. Homosexuals, Gypsies, the disabled (both physically and mentally disabled), Slavs, and a host of others groups were also targeted.

Over 250, 000 physically disabled people were murdered by the Nazi's between 1938-1945. Some 350,000 mentally disabled people were murdered by the Nazi's between 1936-1945. These included men who had been horribly disabled fighting for Germany during the First World War, including at least 55 men who had won the Iron Cross First Class.

Several thousand Catholic Priests were murdered, as were several thousand Catholic Nuns. Protestant Ministers were also murdered in the thousands. Any Jehovah's Witness they could find was murdered.

The Nazi's however were amateurs compared to the Soviet's, who murdered well over 20 million people in their camps. And the Chinese outdid both the Nazi's AND the Communist Russians, by murdering over 50 million of their people.

Nothing that is happening in the world today can even be remotely compared to what happened under those "governments". Any attempt to equate modern problems with the holocaust, the Soviet atrocities or the Chinese atrocities is done merely to diminish the horrors of those events.

 

[earth_as_one]

Old medic,

If some of your comments were directed at me, then you misunderstood my point. I do not deny or minimize the Holocaust. I am not equating it to current ongoing atrocities, but pointing out that the Holocaust is being used to justify current ongoing atrocities.

If I am not making myself clear, I suggest you listen to this speech by British MP, Sir Gerald Kaufman who is a Zionist, raised as an Orthodox Jew and who lost most of his relatives in the WW II Nazi Holocaust.
YouTube - ‪UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza‬‎

I share Sir Gerald Kaufman's viewpoint regarding how the Holocaust has been used as cover for ongoing Israeli atrocities, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Every time Israel commits yet another horrific atrocity, it gets second page treatment while yet another story about the holocaust runs on the front page. At the time of the 2008/2009 Gaza massacre, the news ran stories about the Jewish Holocaust and the heroic actions of the IDF. Meanwhile the real story was IDF destruction of hospitals and universities, the IDF bombing power, water and sewage treatment facilities, the IDF shooting at ambulances, killing medics, humanitarian aid workers, fireman, police, doctors. We heard about how the Nazis gassed Jews 60 years ago, but little to nothing about the IDF using white phosphorous and high explosives to "shake and bake" densely populated urban areas. While the news ran stories about Nazis rounding up Jewish civilians 60 years ago, they did not print stories about the IDF rounding up civilians (including women and children) and using them to protect soldiers as they engaged the enemy. Our news never reported any stories about the IDF stripping civilians down to their underwear and restraining them in stress positions for days in razor wire lined pits with no shelter and little food or water next to IDF tanks and artillery as they shelled the hostages' family and friends nearby.... While the news ran stories about the suffering of Jews at the hands of the Nazis, they didn't print the story about how the IDF blocked the Red Cross from evacuating civilians which led to children starving to death next to the corpses of their dead mothers.

Recently when Israeli commandos boarded and killed people on a ship attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza, the news ran stories about the holocaust, references to Iran's President Ahmadinejad secret plans to build nuclear weapons and threats to wipe Israel off the map.

Our news seldom prints details from any of the dozens of human rights group reports regarding Israeli atrocities. Usually the news references these reports obliquely and dismisses them as anti-Semitic propaganda, quotes a denial by an Israeli leader and prints yet another story about the holocaust.

I've come to see holocaust stories in the news as a reliable indicator that Israel is in the middle of committing yet another atrocity. The more cruel or outrageous the Israeli atrocity, the more our news compensates by printing holocaust stories on the front page. Whenever Israel does something particularly nasty, the story is usually displaced off the front page by yet another holocaust story. Its a pattern I've noticed.

I'm not denying or minimizing the Holocaust. I'm pointing out that its being used today to deny justice, justify oppression and minimize an ongoing atrocity happening right now.

The holocaust was an important historical event, but its far too late now for action which would have stopped or prevented that atrocity. That's not the case for the atrocities being committed right now in Israel and the Occupied Territories. I'm not saying Israel's atrocities are on the same scale as what happened in Nazi Occupied Europe.

I am saying that the lessons of the Holocaust are being ignored when it comes to Israel. An entire people are being demonized and subhumanized. In Israel, Jews are the master race, with superior rights and privileges over non-Jews. Israeli soldiers can kill non-Jews with impunity. Israel's leaders can get away with committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, with the unshakable support of people like Stephen Harper. The news barely reports Palestinian suffering and oppression and few people care. Sounds a lot like the situation faced by Jews in Europe in the early to mid 1930's.

Shame on us for not doing anything back then. Shame on us for not doing anything now.

 

[Goober]

Old medic,

If some of your comments were directed at me, then you misunderstood my point. I do not deny or minimize the Holocaust. I am not equating it to current ongoing atrocities, but pointing out that the Holocaust is being used to justify current ongoing atrocities.

If I am not making myself clear, I suggest you listen to this speech by British MP, Sir Gerald Kaufman who is a Zionist, raised as an Orthodox Jew and who lost most of his relatives in the WW II Nazi Holocaust.
YouTube - ‪UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza‬‎

I share Sir Gerald Kaufman's viewpoint regarding how the Holocaust has been used as cover for ongoing Israeli atrocities, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Every time Israel commits yet another horrific atrocity, it gets second page treatment while yet another story about the holocaust runs on the front page. At the time of the 2008/2009 Gaza massacre, the news ran stories about the Jewish Holocaust and the heroic actions of the IDF. Meanwhile the real story was IDF destruction of hospitals and universities, the IDF bombing power, water and sewage treatment facilities, the IDF shooting at ambulances, killing medics, humanitarian aid workers, fireman, police, doctors. We heard about how the Nazis gassed Jews 60 years ago, but little to nothing about the IDF using white phosphorous and high explosives to "shake and bake" densely populated urban areas. While the news ran stories about Nazis rounding up Jewish civilians 60 years ago, they did not print stories about the IDF rounding up civilians (including women and children) and using them to protect soldiers as they engaged the enemy. Our news never reported any stories about the IDF stripping civilians down to their underwear and restraining them in stress positions for days in razor wire lined pits with no shelter and little food or water next to IDF tanks and artillery as they shelled the hostages' family and friends nearby.... While the news ran stories about the suffering of Jews at the hands of the Nazis, they didn't print the story about how the IDF blocked the Red Cross from evacuating civilians which led to children starving to death next to the corpses of their dead mothers.

Recently when Israeli commandos boarded and killed people on a ship attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza, the news ran stories about the holocaust, references to Iran's President Ahmadinejad secret plans to build nuclear weapons and threats to wipe Israel off the map.

Our news seldom prints details from any of the dozens of human rights group reports regarding Israeli atrocities. Usually the news references these reports obliquely and dismisses them as anti-Semitic propaganda, quotes a denial by an Israeli leader and prints yet another story about the holocaust.

I've come to see holocaust stories in the news as a reliable indicator that Israel is in the middle of committing yet another atrocity. The more cruel or outrageous the Israeli atrocity, the more our news compensates by printing holocaust stories on the front page. Whenever Israel does something particularly nasty, the story is usually displaced off the front page by yet another holocaust story. Its a pattern I've noticed.

I'm not denying or minimizing the Holocaust. I'm pointing out that its being used today to deny justice, justify oppression and minimize an ongoing atrocity

Babbling Brook

You have no readability on this - Why - It is always Israel - You overlook everything else - It is a fixation with you. Why - I still believe you are a Racist by your other posts. Yet you try to hide behind the BS of "Oh dear me i am against all that bad stuff, especially by those Jews, You know how they are.

 

[CDNBear]

I do not deny or minimize the Holocaust.

Maybe not in this thread, but every time you equate the Israeli's to Nazi's, call 153,000 dead, from both sides, a genocide, you minimize the holocaust. Puposely if you asked me for my honest opinion.

I am not equating it to current ongoing atrocities,

Yes you are, as you have done in multiple threads, repeatedly.

 

[earth_as_one]

Yeah right! You'll have to quote me on those "other posts".

I've never made a racist comment about Jews in my life.

I agree 100% with the points made by British MP, Sir Gerald Kaufman's regarding the situation in Israel and Israel's exploitation of the Holocaust to justify their war crimes and crimes against humanity as per his speech above. Sir Kaufman is (or was) a Zionist, was raised as an Orthodox Jew and lost most of his relatives during the WW II Holocaust.

I agree with Dr. Norman Finkelstein Ph.D that the Holocaust has been exploited to provide cover for Israel's ongoing oppression and injustice of Palestinians and to extort money from banks. Dr Finkelstein's parents survived the horrors of Nazi Holocaust and is a recognized expert regarding the Holocaust and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I trust Justice Richard Goldstone, former member of the South African Constitutional Court and former Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda and head of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, who is also Jewish and a Zionist. I believe his report to be factually accurate, fair assessment of the situation in Israel and the Occupied Territories which supports statements by Sir Kaufman and claims by Dr. Finkelstein regarding the Holocaust.

Even though I have referenced reputable sources to back up my statements, I expected lazy Israeli apologists like yourself who try to ignore the overwhelming evidence of Israeli atrocities would attack me with libelous accusations of anti-Semiticism rather than actually post an informed opinion backed by references to reputable sources.

 

[Goober]

Yeah right! You'll have to quote me on those "other posts".

I've never made a racist comment about Jews in my life.

I agree 100% with the points made by British MP, Sir Gerald Kaufman's regarding the situation in Israel and Israel's exploitation of the Holocaust to justify their war crimes and crimes against humanity as per his speech above. Sir Kaufman is (or was) a Zionist, was raised as an Orthodox Jew and lost most of his relatives during the WW II Holocaust.

I agree with Dr. Norman Finkelstein Ph.D that the Holocaust has been exploited to provide cover for Israel's ongoing oppression and injustice of Palestinians and to extort money from banks. Dr Finkelstein's parents survived the horrors of Nazi Holocaust and is a recognized expert regarding the Holocaust and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I trust Justice Richard Goldstone, former member of the South African Constitutional Court and former Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda and head of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, who is also Jewish and a Zionist. I believe his report to be factually accurate, fair assessment of the situation in Israel and the Occupied Territories which supports statements by Sir Kaufman and claims by Dr. Finkelstein regarding the Holocaust.

Even though I have referenced reputable sources to back up my statements, I expected lazy Israeli apologists like yourself who try to ignore the overwhelming evidence of Israeli atrocities would attack me with libelous accusations of anti-Semiticism rather than actually post an informed opinion backed by references to reputable sources.

EAO

I've never made a racist comment about Jews in my life.



Thread Israel the Right to exist - You also voted unsure - DUFUS - Try harder next time as I am sure other have your quotes that are Anti Jew -

CanaduhThe Native American "holocaust" happened before the media could latch onto it, not to mention the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card.

Post 42 EAO - Your Posts below - Jewish Cabals controls the Media - I was surprised how you let that slip out - .

I would have expected the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz to get far less coverage than the 65th anniversary of D-Day, the end of WW II or even the second anniversary of Israel's ongoing Gaza blockade/crime against humanity. The holocaust gets more news coverage now than when it was happening.

EAO
You made the above comment when world leaders were at the memorial events - It appears there was to much coverage for you - Well the press does that when leaders of many countries attend ceremonies - But as they were remebering Jews Murdered that does not sink into your thick head.


I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.

EAO - Not much news coverage of the Extermination of the Jews during the War - But you appear to imply or believe there was.
Now go out and get a new Bed Sheet - The one you are wearing is starting to stink - Much like your philosophy

 

[MHz]

Nothing that is happening in the world today can even be remotely compared to what happened under those "governments". Any attempt to equate modern problems with the holocaust, the Soviet atrocities or the Chinese atrocities is done merely to diminish the horrors of those events.

Any attempt to 'justify' the killing of civilians' today as a 'lesser crime' is the very same as saying civilians are not important in being 'targeted by the military' until the number surpasses a certain number. Over 1 million Iraqi civilians have been killed during an invasion based on lies. At what number do they deserve some attention in ending their sorrows and what compensation do they have coming their way at this very moment?

 

[Goober]

Any attempt to 'justify' the killing of civilians' today as a 'lesser crime' is the very same as saying civilians are not important in being 'targeted by the military' until the number surpasses a certain number. Over 1 million Iraqi civilians have been killed during an invasion based on lies. At what number do they deserve some attention in ending their sorrows and what compensation do they have coming their way at this very moment?

NHZ -the number of Iraqi's killed in still in question - But you as always will cherry pick the numbers that agrees with your viewpoint.

So again you are not credible in your replies. Sticking to the norm for you as always in a repsonse, .

 

[MHz]

NHZ -the number of Iraqi's killed in still in question - But you as always will cherry pick the numbers that agrees with your viewpoint.

So again you are not credible in your replies. Sticking to the norm for you as always in a repsonse, .

So apparently there is a number that have to be killed before it become an 'issue' to be 'investigated'. Are you expecting that a period of time that is not classified as a World War would produce deaths on the scale that happened in WWII. How many from the 6M number would it have been reduced had the 'West' allowed Germany to sent the transport trains in the opposite direction from the camps. The offer was made but the West turned it down. No room in their hearts for the Jews but they did find room to smuggle some SS Members over so they could help establish that American Military Secret Police.

That is just the number of the ones killed, did you also forget that making people refugees is also a war crime, care to number how many million of Iraqis that covers? The total should be a big fat ZERO and since it isn't some Americans should be in front of a war crimes judge. If the UN will back an 'illegal invasion' of Kuwait then it is also bound to support Iraq when they are illegally invaded. Kind of makes you wonder what America and Israel would have to do before they are labeled as 'terrorists'.

Before 'moving on' you still have to show some proof that shows Iran is after the extermination of all Jews, you opened your mouth, now back it up. If you can't back the claim up you shopuld keep your trap shut. If the total turned out to 990,000 is it then a 'clean operation'?

 

[EagleSmack]

Any attempt to 'justify' the killing of civilians' today as a 'lesser crime' is the very same as saying civilians are not important in being 'targeted by the military' until the number surpasses a certain number. Over 1 million Iraqi civilians have been killed during an invasion based on lies. At what number do they deserve some attention in ending their sorrows and what compensation do they have coming their way at this very moment?

Which is a lie right there! lol Well at least you have been misinformed...


Iraq Body Count

Sorry charlie.

. How many from the 6M number would it have been reduced had the 'West' allowed Germany to sent the transport trains in the opposite direction from the camps. The offer was made but the West turned it down.

So the Nazi's offered to send the Jooo trains west...but the west turned it down?

LMAO

No room in their hearts for the Jews but they did find room to smuggle some SS Members over so they could help establish that American Military Secret Police.

Oooooo... the American Military Secret Police.... ooooooooo.

Wtf are you talking about? lol

That is just the number of the ones killed, did you also forget that making people refugees is also a war crime, care to number how many million of Iraqis that covers? The total should be a big fat ZERO and since it isn't some Americans should be in front of a war crimes judge. If the UN will back an 'illegal invasion' of Kuwait then it is also bound to support Iraq when they are illegally invaded. Kind of makes you wonder what America and Israel would have to do before they are labeled as 'terrorists'.

Come and arrest them.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Well...I don't generally get involved in threads about the Holocaust, they tend to draw out the loons and bigots and the ignorant and they usually rapidly degenerate into folly. But this one doesn't seem too bad...

It's not really impossible to declare the Holocaust a myth, all you have to do is make the statement, and a lot of people do But they're wrong. It's as simple as that. They're just wrong. The Holocaust was real, it happened, the documentation is undeniable. But it was just the best organized and most industrialized version of ethnic cleansing, it's only one of many holocausts. When people believe they're absolutely right, they do horrible things to each other. Routinely. Christopher Hitchens was almost right to say that religion poisons everything. He wasn't looking at the bigger picture. It's unthinking ideology, of which extremist religion is just one example, that poisons everything.

 

[gerryh]

Christopher Hitchens was almost right to say that religion poisons everything. He wasn't looking at the bigger picture. It's unthinking ideology, of which extremist religion is just one example, that poisons everything.

gee....why is it no surprise that you wold be dragging religion into this.

 

[CDNBear]

Yeah right! You'll have to quote me on those "other posts".

Why would I? You have me on ignore.

I've never made a racist comment about Jews in my life.

Please show me where I said you did.

I agree 100% with the points made by British MP, Sir Gerald Kaufman's regarding the situation in Israel and Israel's exploitation of the Holocaust to justify their war crimes and crimes against humanity as per his speech above. Sir Kaufman is (or was) a Zionist, was raised as an Orthodox Jew and lost most of his relatives during the WW II Holocaust.

I agree with Dr. Norman Finkelstein Ph.D that the Holocaust has been exploited to provide cover for Israel's ongoing oppression and injustice of Palestinians and to extort money from banks. Dr Finkelstein's parents survived the horrors of Nazi Holocaust and is a recognized expert regarding the Holocaust and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Actually, I agree with Kaufman and Finklstein on the holocaust industry, go figure.

I trust Justice Richard Goldstone, former member of the South African Constitutional Court and former Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda and head of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, who is also Jewish and a Zionist. I believe his report to be factually accurate, fair assessment of the situation in Israel and the Occupied Territories which supports statements by Sir Kaufman and claims by Dr. Finkelstein regarding the Holocaust.

Oddly enough, you seem to question the veracity of only those Jews that disagree with you. The ones that do, never get questioned by you. When you asked for someone to show section, page and paragraph, where Goldstone erred, your iggy button was working just fine.

Even though I have referenced reputable sources to back up my statements, I expected lazy Israeli apologists like yourself who try to ignore the overwhelming evidence of Israeli atrocities would attack me with libelous accusations of anti-Semiticism rather than actually post an informed opinion backed by references to reputable sources.

I'm not lazy, I have spent countless hours trying to debate you with accurate stats, evidence, indisputable facts and documented history. You have made all that effort for not, by simply ignoring, or dismissing my hard work and effort, (As well as that of various others) without so much as a single valid rebuttal

Why would I continue to waste my time?

You aren't here to debate, you're here to preach. Anyone that doesn't agree with you 100%, is an Israeli apologist, a supporter of war crimes and crimes against humanity. And let's not forget the best one yet, calling me a pretender, a fake, and calling into question my veracity. If that's OK for you to do, why is not OK for me or anyone else to do eao?

Why do you think so many people think you're messed? You'll get all you deserve, which is nothing but contempt, sarcasm and curt responses. If you truly were here to debate or discuss, you would have conceded to some facts by now. Like, Goober, Iron, ES, Colpy and myself have done from time to time, when the facts dictate it.

For the record eao, I think you are a bigot. I have no other way of describing someone that ignores or dismisses facts, evidence and documented history, to maintain an opinion that is easily proven erroneous, by aforementioned material. Not to mention the ferocity and energy you put into this one topic. While you claim to be against all human rights abuses. The world abounds in them, some monumental, some minor. You've chosen the one that from all angles would be the lesser of so many evils, but give it so much time and effort. The singular difference and seemingly singular villain throughout your campaign, is, was and likely will be "Israeli Jews". The only ones you don't have a problem with, are the ones that agree with you, 100%. All the rest are liars according to you.

And I'm still waiting for you to post your home address, real name and drivers license number. And please don't cry about this post "attacking the poster". You dissolved your right to do that, the minute you attacked me, in a way I could not defend myself, without putting myself at great risk.

Oh and please, enough with the "Libelous" threat, it's weak and childish, you haven't a leg to stand on. You're an anonymous entity, until you post your full name, and address, so that any comment that is invalid and damaging to you the person, in a very real way, is posted. You are a virtual nothing, with no such right of protection.

I've actually researched this, contacted an attorney, and the authorities. Because some jack ass posted that I beat my wife.

That eao, was a blatant lie. Our discussions on the other hand, leave room for interpretation, and in my interpretation, you have supported terrorist groups, by claiming that they are honest, that they have never broken a cease fire. You have minimalized the holocaust, by equating 150,000 some odd dead from both sides, to it. While equating the Israeli's to Nazi's, and then topping that off with claiming that they are nothing but liars, and you wouldn't believe a word they say. Unless of course it supports your point of view.

If you think you can win a case on that, before a Judge, bring it. I'll meet you there and not only will I win, I'll counter sue for damages, costs.

Yes eao, I've look at both sides of a libel case. I made myself well aware of what could happen in the event of actually pushing a case through, only to lose. The defendant has a far better chance of recouping loses and damages, than the plaintiff of actually succeeding. DaSleeper, Muz, myself as well as a few others out here, have done a considerable amount of research on the matter.

I'll pass on all available info to Goober, so your silly little threats to silence him, will have no power either.

 

[earth_as_one]

It's not really impossible to declare the Holocaust a myth, all you have to do is make the statement, and a lot of people do But they're wrong. It's as simple as that. They're just wrong. The Holocaust was real, it happened, the documentation is undeniable. But it was just the best organized and most industrialized version of ethnic cleansing, it's only one of many holocausts. When people believe they're absolutely right, they do horrible things to each other. Routinely. Christopher Hitchens was almost right to say that religion poisons everything. He wasn't looking at the bigger picture. It's unthinking ideology, of which extremist religion is just one example, that poisons everything.

I also hope this topic remains civil.

I agree. "The Holocaust was real, it happened, the documentation is undeniable. But it was just the best organized and most industrialized version of ethnic cleansing, "

Undeniably, millions of civilians perished.

I disagree with you regarding the role of religion in the Holocaust. While Hitler and Goebbels paid religious taxes, they seldom attended and the Nazis weren't particularly religious or strongly associated with any religion. Also, they exterminated thousands of clergy.

Religion in Nazi Germany
Religion in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMO, the Nazis were greedy opportunistic psychopaths, who knew no limits.

Their main motivation was to gain wealth and power and they didn't care who they had to kill to achieve their objectives. They were extreme narcissists who completely lacked empathy. The Nazis were very effective at manipulating prejudice, fear and hatred into widespread support for their policies which included the extermination of millions of people in order to seize their assets. Try to imagine seizing the wealth of Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver....

Aggressive narcissism
Psychopathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nazis held strong racist and nationalistic beliefs, but I think their primary motivation was gaining wealth and power. Jews were an easy target...

Regarding the Iraq war crime/atrocity which is in its 8th year now.

IBC is a compilation of documented deaths, as reported by English-language media worldwide. It does not include estimated unreported deaths. Unreported deaths are common during wars and and periods of social upheaval. IBC's numbers should be considered a verifiable minimum. The actual number of Iraqi civilian deaths is greater than IBC's numbers with 100% certainty. How much IBC's numbers are less than the actual is debatable.

The number of Jews who perished in the Holocaust would be far smaller, if it was calculated using the same methodology as IBC, and only included verifiable, documented deaths. Commonly accepted numbers of Holocaust victims correctly include estimates of undocumented deaths.

In 2007, a survey of Iraqis led to estimates of about a million Iraqi civilian deaths.
ORB survey of Iraq War casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've observed that many of the same people who believe the estimated numbers of Holocaust victims and accuse anyone who disagrees with them as anti-Semitic holocaust deniers are also the same people who don't believe estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths. IMO, it has something to do with taking cable news seriously and lacking an ability to think critically.

 

[JLM]

I also hope this topic remains civil.

I agree. "The Holocaust was real, it happened, the documentation is undeniable. But it was just the best organized and most industrialized version of ethnic cleansing, "

Undeniably, millions of civilians perished.

I'm not sure what there is to compare between the Holocaust and war deaths in Iraq. :smile: I could see a slight comparison between the Iraq war and WW2.