Israel takes control of pro-Palestinian activist ship with Canadian aboard

[lone wolf]

Bit of a difference between a roadblock on the highway and warships boarding a vessel in international waters. Nobody has any right to board a vessel in international waters unless here is a declared state of war between the vessel's respective nations. Any other time it is breach of the law of the sea. Plain & simple! You can all banter about how different situations mitigate breach of the law but it is all self-serving BS from a bunch of hypocrites!.

Not much ... though "Step out of the vehicle, please, Sir" has different implications.

They shoot off their mouths and tell the world their intent (which is to run the blockade) and get called on it. Maybe if they'd just lighten up on the attention-seeking. Breaking through means illegal intent. Would you tell the world if you were running dope through a roadblock?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Not much ... though "Step out of the vehicle, please, Sir" has different implications.

They shoot off their mouths and tell the world their intent (which is to run the blockade) and get called on it. Maybe if they'd just lighten up on the attention-seeking. Breaking through means illegal intent. Would you tell the world if you were running dope through a roadblock?

Think of it this way. If the Nebraska state police set up a roadblock in Calgary would you feel inclined to stop or might you drive right through it. This is really a jurisdictional thing for me, The Israelis have NO jurisdiction in international waters therefore do not need to be obeyed just like the Nebraska troopers have no jurisdiction in Calgary. There is no illegal intent in me publicizing my intent to run the illegal roadblock in Calgary and no illegal intent in announcing running an illegal blockade on the Mediterranean.

 

[taxslave]

Think of it this way. If the Nebraska state police set up a roadblock in Calgary would you feel inclined to stop or might you drive right through it. This is really a jurisdictional thing for me, The Israelis have NO jurisdiction in international waters therefore do not need to be obeyed just like the Nebraska troopers have no jurisdiction in Calgary. There is no illegal intent in me publicizing my intent to run the illegal roadblock in Calgary and no illegal intent in announcing running an illegal blockade on the Mediterranean.

Then you had best read up on the law before making silly claims. Everyone except you and a few jew haters knows that the blockade is legal.

 

[lone wolf]

Legal doesn't always mean feel good, rainbows and sunshine.

BTW ... Nebraska troopers would be more inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. Your call....

 

[Colpy]

Think of it this way. If the Nebraska state police set up a roadblock in Calgary would you feel inclined to stop or might you drive right through it. This is really a jurisdictional thing for me, The Israelis have NO jurisdiction in international waters therefore do not need to be obeyed just like the Nebraska troopers have no jurisdiction in Calgary. There is no illegal intent in me publicizing my intent to run the illegal roadblock in Calgary and no illegal intent in announcing running an illegal blockade on the Mediterranean.

That is where you are wrong....the IDF has full jurisdiction enforcing a legal blockade.

It may not be illegal to run it, but it would also be perfectly legal for the IDF to blow your ship sky-high if you did so.

Not that anyone with a luke-warm IQ gives a rat's arse about International Law.

 

[earth_as_one]

How would anyone know that there is only humanitarian aid on board unless the boat is stopped and searched? There is a route to send humanitarian aid without trying to run the blockade. You really think Israel is going to take the word of terrorists that they are not smuggling weapons into Gaza?

Ships can be inspected and sealed at point of departure. Seals can be checked at sea. Arms, weapons, building material and money already move through the tunnels...

After so many years and political changes in Egypt, not much exists that Gaza can't import or export through the tunnels. Food, clothing, building material, money, people, arms... all come through tunnels from Egypt to Gaza... for a fee of course. The motivation is capitalism, not charity..

Raw video of teenagers working in a Gaza tunnel
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3XQb2RtlK8

Hamas controls most tunnels and most contraband are simple things like disposable diapers, clothing, parts for sewage and water pumps... stuff Israel blocks for the sole purpose of making life miserable for millions of people..

I don't support this. I find the Netanyahu regime's actions offensive. This embargo is a crime against humanity, but its impact decreases every day thanks to the ingenuity and hard work of Gazans.

People will always fight oppression. Israel can imprison these people, assassinate their leaders, try to make them starve and suffer in human execrement... but you can never defeat human spirit with cruelty and injustice. Gazan ingenuity in devising this system of tunnels proves it.

BBC: Smuggling a car through a tunnel

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEV5GTAQpsQ

 

[PoliticalNick]

That is where you are wrong....the IDF has full jurisdiction enforcing a legal blockade.

So every country can claim jurisdiction over international waters?

It may not be illegal to run it, but it would also be perfectly legal for the IDF to blow your ship sky-high if you did so.

Bit of a paradox there don't you think. It's legal to destroy a ship that is in a legal position. Like giving a ticket to a legally parked car isn't it. Please do justify that and why you would agree with it.

Not that anyone with a luke-warm IQ gives a rat's arse about International Law.

Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean you think the idea of international law is a joke or just the it is a joke as it stands today? I support the idea of a strong international law & court system to back it up. That also means ANY nation that breeches it gets called to account.

 

[earth_as_one]

I must have missed that official declaration of war regarding....well anything NATO has done since before Bosnia. Jst because a group (ie NATO) decides to invade a foreign sovereign nation doesn't make it legal under the Geneva conventions or international laws. The US, Nato and allies have broken many international laws recently and have completely ignored the Geneva conventions. I don't want to be part of anything that preaches all this BS about law & order yet continually breaks international law when it is perceived as beneficial for the west.

You can all dump more red on this because it doesn't matter coming from the hypocrites. And YES, I am call you hypocrites!

Cool!

Not much ... though "Step out of the vehicle, please, Sir" has different implications.

They shoot off their mouths and tell the world their intent (which is to run the blockade) and get called on it. Maybe if they'd just lighten up on the attention-seeking. Breaking through means illegal intent. Would you tell the world if you were running dope through a roadblock?

Think of it this way. If the Nebraska state police set up a roadblock in Calgary would you feel inclined to stop or might you drive right through it. This is really a jurisdictional thing for me, The Israelis have NO jurisdiction in international waters therefore do not need to be obeyed just like the Nebraska troopers have no jurisdiction in Calgary. There is no illegal intent in me publicizing my intent to run the illegal roadblock in Calgary and no illegal intent in announcing running an illegal blockade on the Mediterranean.

Legal doesn't always mean feel good, rainbows and sunshine.

BTW ... Nebraska troopers would be more inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. Your call....

If Nebraska police were shooting people in Calgary, that would be murder and II'm pretty sure the Calgary police would arrest them.

If the Nebraska Police were even stopping people in Calgary, confiscating their cars and personal belongings, that would be a car jacking and robbery and I'm pretty the Calgary police would arrest them

That is where you are wrong....the IDF has full jurisdiction enforcing a legal blockade.

It may not be illegal to run it, but it would also be perfectly legal for the IDF to blow your ship sky-high if you did so.

Not that anyone with a luke-warm IQ gives a rat's arse about International Law.

Supporting one side's war criminals isn't more moral than supporting the other side's war criminals. I am against all war criminals and people who commit crimes against humanity. I disagree with the Harper government supporting Benjamin Netanyahu as strongly as I would disagree with supporting Khaled Masha.

Both sides in this conflict support my beliefs that religion has no place in politics and religious based rights leads to oppression and injustice.

 

[petros]

Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean you think the idea of international law is a joke or just the it is a joke as it stands today? I support the idea of a strong international law & court system to back it up. That also means ANY nation that breeches it gets called to account.

The UN is a joke until you say that they made a huge mistake in creating the bastard nation of Israel. At that point you'll hear it was the only good thing they've ever done.

If th UN says Israel is occupying illegally, killing illegally and suppressing illegally the waterheads will bash the UN

 

[Just the Facts]

So every country can claim jurisdiction over international waters?

It has nothing to do with claiming jurisdiction over international waters, it just has to do with enforcing a blockade. The Estelle did not hide the fact that it's intended destination was Gaza, which made it a ship of interest to the Israeli's. They acted perfectly legally. We went through all this already with the first flotilla. In the first one people were killed, and it was still ruled legal.

You may think it's wrong, and that it should not be so, and you can probably make a compelling rational argument in defense of your position, but the fact remains that under current international law, Israel acted legally.

 

[In Between Man]

People will always fight oppression. Israel can imprison these people, assassinate their leaders, try to make them starve and suffer in human execrement... but you can never defeat human spirit with cruelty and injustice.

Considering that the tiny nation of Israel doesn't belong to them, why don't they go enjoy the greener grass in the vast Arab lands they came from? I hear Jordan is lovely this time of year.

 

[CDNBear]

If th UN says Israel is occupying illegally, killing illegally and suppressing illegally the waterheads will bash the UN

Colpy, JTF, ES and I bash the UN ALL the time. I like to cite UN rulings because the Usual Suspects (Who are the epitome of waterheads) are forever throwing UN rulings into the debate, until they don't like what the UN says.

It's funny watching them dance around them.

It has nothing to do with claiming jurisdiction over international waters, it just has to do with enforcing a blockade. The Estelle did not hide the fact that it's intended destination was Gaza, which made it a ship of interest to the Israeli's. They acted perfectly legally. We went through all this already with the first flotilla. In the first one people were killed, and it was still ruled legal.

But the perpetually stupid hate it when the facts don't mesh with their version of reality.

You may think it's wrong, and that it should not be so, and you can probably make a compelling rational argument in defense of your position, but the fact remains that under current international law, Israel acted legally.

I highly doubt you'll see a rational argument out of any of the Usual Suspects.

 

[earth_as_one]

earth_as_one:
People will always fight oppression. Israel can imprison these people, assassinate their leaders, try to make them starve and suffer in human execrement... but you can never defeat human spirit with cruelty and injustice.

In Between Man:
Considering that the tiny nation of Israel doesn't belong to them, why don't they go enjoy the greener grass in the vast Arab lands they came from? I hear Jordan is lovely this time of year.

Your post is factually wrong. If you believe this, you must not know much about the origin of this conflict.

Palestinians descend from the first people to live in this region. They share ancestors with Jews and Christians who can trace their ancestry back to this region. Palestinians are descended from the Jews who never left. Most converted to Islam. Some converted to Christianity and some remained Jews.

...Genetic a.nalysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core reaches back to prehistoric times... ...the Palestinians are an Arab people in linguistic and cultural affiliation. Since the seventh century, Palestine's indigenous peoples came under the influence of the Arabic-speaking conquerors of the region, and this confluence was formative for Palestinian culture.[15] Genetic research study suggests that present-day Palestinians have roots that go back to the ancient inhabitants of the area...
Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most Israeli Jews can only trace their ancestry back to Europe or other countries and are recent immigrants to the region.

Aliyah Bet: Illegal immigration (1933–1948 )
The British government limited Jewish immigration to Palestine with quotas, and following the rise of Nazism to power in Germany, illegal immigration to Palestine commenced. The illegal immigration was known as Aliyah Bet ("secondary immigration"), or Ha'apalah, and was organized by the Mossad Le'aliyah Bet, as well as by the Irgun. Immigration was done mainly by sea, and to a lesser extent overland through Iraq and Syria. During World War II and the years that followed until independence, Aliyah Bet became the main form of Jewish immigration to Palestine.

Following the war, Berihah ("flight"), an organization of former partisans and ghetto fighters was primarily responsible for smuggling Jews from Poland and Eastern Europe to the Italian ports from which they traveled to Palestine. Despite British efforts to curb the illegal immigration, during the 14 years of its operation, 110,000 Jews immigrated to Palestine... ...A major wave of immigration of over half a million Jews went to Israel between 1948 and 1950, many fleeing renewed persecution in Eastern Europe...
Aliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


excerpts from the book The Ethic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
...On a cold Wednesday afternoon, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches to a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to the units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of the Palestinians from vast areas of the country.' The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be employed to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centres; setting fire to homes, properties and goods; expulsion; demolition; and, finally, planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued with its own list of villages and neighbourhoods as the targets of this master plan. Codenamed Plan D (Do/et in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of less substantial plans that outlined the fate the Zionists had in store for Palestine and consequently for its native population. The previous three schemes had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership contemplated dealing with the presence of so many Palestinians living in the land the Jewish national movement coveted as its own. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.' In the words of one of the first historians to note the significance of that plan, Simcha Flapan, 'The military campaign against the Arabs, including the "conquest and destruction of the 'rural areas" was set forth in the Hagana's Plan Dalet'.' The aim of the plan was in fact the destruction of both the rural and urban areas of Palestine.
... this plan was both the inevitable product of the Zionist ideological impulse to have an exclusively Jewish presence in Palestine, and a response to developments on the ground once the British cabinet had decided to end the mandate. Clashes with local Palestinian militias provided the perfect context and pretext for implementing the ideological vision of an ethnically cleansed Palestine. The Zionist policy was first based on retaliation against Palestinian attacks in February 1947, and it transformed into an initiative to ethnically cleanse the country as a whole in March 1948.
Once the decision was taken, it took six months to complete the mission. When it was over, more than half of Palestine's native population, close to 800,000 people, had been uprooted, 531 villages had been destroyed, and eleven urban neighbourhoods emptied of their inhabitants...
excerpts from the book The Ethic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe