How we treat prostitutes
- Thread starter Gonzo
- Start date
I'm basing this on the fact that it's not frowned on in Europe (Netherlands) or Las Vegas for that matter. I'm basing this on your feelings towards prositution.
Have you asked some call girls this question? Have you asked the prositutes this question? Cause the girls I knew choose "hooking" instead of collecting welfare
I never mentioned wealthy. Large money. Like a drug dealer. Large money not wealthy. Very different terms. There are Street walkers and there are Call girls. They are both prositutes but you don't see the call girls on the street. They mean business. They are not the strung out junky whores you see on the corner.
Some women find they like the control they have over men when they strip for them in the club and some women fine they like the power they have over them during sex.
I never said the majority of women. However since Vancouver has this empowerment group for their prositutes I'd say at least some are all for being allowed to carry on their chosen profession.
If they are ok with it then who are you to judge?
Twila said:
Yes, well, Europe is one continent. The rest have different feelings, and Europe doesn't all feel the same way about it.
Twila said:
Sorry, I've never known a call girl. I never had need for their services, and no woman ever told me she was one. But just because some have told you they chose the profession doesn't mean others haven't been forced into it, or that it's a good profession to be choosing.
Twila said:
Yes, well, there's something to be said about that comparison to drug dealers and the value of the services of both...
Twila said:
This argument about, "who are you to judge?", is something thrown around an awful lot these days, and it's hard to respect. Judgments are a normal part of life and everyone makes them. You just made a judgment against me suggesting I don't have a place to judge. When you get up, when you sleep, who you speak to, where you work, all involves judgment.
Making a judgment is not the same thing as looking down on a person.
As a member of my society, I have the right to discuss what is beneficial to my society, what is not, what professions should be regulated, and which should be banned. It's an inherently undemocratic thing to say that I shouldn't be speaking about something when the corner stone of democracy is freedom of speech.
I make the judgment that prostitution should be illegal for a manifold of reasons I already mentioned, none of which you have addressed. They include:
1) The argument that prostitution should be regulated because it will never go away is an unsound argument. Murder, rape, etc., will never go away, but that is not a justification to legalise those behaviours.
2) Human beings are not commodities to be bought and sold on the market.
3) The legalisation of prostitution does not prevent women who do not wish to be a part of the profession from being forced into it.
4) The legalisation of prostitution has been shown to increase the number of women forced into the profession, and has actually increased human trafficking and slavery.
Yes, early I stated that some were forced into it. You don’t have to be sorry that you’ve never talked to a prostitute about prostitution. I was fortunate, I grew up in a tourist town and I have no problem talking with people from all walks of life.
In Asia, it’s not frowned upon as you had assume. In fact in Japan it’s called a Dojan (sp?). It's legal there.
I guess that depends on what you say when you're proclaiming your judgement
Choosing prostitution and not choosing to be raped should never be equated.
Stated earlier that not all people feel they are being bought and sold. Some believe they are selling a service. Not their bodies.
neither does making it illegal. Keeping it illegal just stigmatizes and marginalizes a population. Were it legal and they were carded it’d be easier for the police to “card” the kiddy stroll and remove those underage. Right now the police and the prostitutes have a uneasy relationship. If it were legal then the prostitutes wouldn’t have to hide out.
Can you provide me with the statistics for this?
Though I recognise, Twila, that you believe legalisation is in the best interests of prostitutes, I am nevertheless disappointed that someone would argue in support of selling the bodies of human beings as commodities. To reply to your points:
I referred specifically to South Asia, which includes India, Pakistan, Bhutan, Nepal, the Maldives, and Sri Lanka. I speak a south Asian language and am very aware of the culture there, which is why I specifically mentioned it. Prostitution is very much taboo there, though maybe not in Southeast Asia or East Asia, where Japan would fall (I have no clue about those places).
Sure, and when I'm saying I do not support the legalisation of prostitution, it's because I have made the judgment that it leads to the exploitation of prostitutes, who are usually women. So the negativity of that judgment falls squarely on the johns. Men are using women as objects of pleasure, instead of treating them with the full dignity and status of a human being. It's wrong.
I don't think you've understood the point I was making. I was not saying that choosing not to be a prostitute and choosing not to be raped are comparable things.
I was rebutting the argument that since prostitution has always existed, and likely always will, that therefore we should legalise and regulate it.
There are many other things that happen in society that have always happened, and will always happen, and it is in no way to the benefit of society to legalise and regulate them.
I was showing that just because something has always happened and always will doesn't in any way make it beneficial to legalise it. Rape and murder have always happened and always will, unfortunately, and that is not a basis for legalising or regulating it.
Likewise, the fact that prostitution has always existed and may always exist is no basis for legalising and regulating it.
Feelings are irrelevant. Men aren't buying their personalities. If they are being bought and sold, they're being bought and sold.
How would legal prostitution for adults make it easier to detect illegal prostitution for minors? Are all the human traffickers who already deal in children going to go to the gov't offices and attempt to register their child prostitutes, and then the police will be able to take them out? Do police have a difficulty telling who the adults on the street corners are from the children, such that the removal of all the adults to legalised brothels will mean they can just pick up the children off the street?
Keeping prostitution illegal does stigmatize prostitutes to a certain extent, but the fact that so many people here who are in support of legalising prostituion have expressed they wouldn't want someone in their family doing it indicates that the stigma and taboo is still there against prostitution, legal or not.
Most importantly, keeping prostitution illegal stigmatizes the johns and pimps, whereas making prostitution legal would turn them into mere consumers of a legal product.
Perhaps there's an argument that Canada should follow Sweden's example, which does not penalize prostitutes, though it heavily penalizes johns and pimps. I could support a system of that nature.
10 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution
# 2. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.
Legalized or decriminalized prostitution industries are one of the root causes of sex trafficking. One argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that legalization would help to end the exploitation of desperate immigrant women who had been trafficked there for prostitution. However, one report found that 80% of women in the brothels of the Netherlands were trafficked from other countries (Budapest Group, 1999)(1). In 1994, the International Organization of Migration (IOM) stated that in the Netherlands alone, “nearly 70 % of trafficked women were from CEEC [Central and Eastern European Countries]” (IOM, 1995, p. 4).
The government of the Netherlands presents itself as a champion of anti-trafficking policies and programs, yet it has removed every legal impediment to pimping, procuring and brothels. In the year 2000, the Dutch Ministry of Justice argued in favor of a legal quota of foreign “sex workers,” because the Dutch prostitution market demanded a variety of “bodies” (Dutting, 2001, p. 16). Also in 2000, the Dutch government sought and received a judgment from the European Court recognizing prostitution as an economic activity, thereby enabling women from the European Union and former Soviet bloc countries to obtain working permits as “sex workers” in the Dutch sex industry if they could prove that they are self employed. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Europe report that traffickers use the work permits to bring foreign women into the Dutch prostitution industry, masking the fact that women have been trafficked, by coaching them to describe themselves as independent “migrant sex workers” (Personal Communication, Representative of the International Human Rights Network, 1999).
In the year since lifting the ban on brothels in the Netherlands, eight Dutch victim support organizations reported an increase in the number of victims of trafficking, and twelve victim support organization reported that the number of victims from other countries has not diminished (Bureau NRM, 2002, p. 75). Forty-three of the 348 municipalities (12%) in the Netherlands choose to follow a no-brothel policy, but the Minister of Justice has indicated that the complete banning of prostitution within any municipality could conflict with the federally guaranteed “right to free choice of work” (Bureau NRM, 2002, p.19).
The first steps toward legalization of prostitution in Germany occurred in the 1980s. By 1993, it was widely recognized that 75% of the women in Germany’s prostitution industry were foreigners from Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and other countries in South America (Altink, 1993, p. 33). After the fall of the Berlin wall, 80% of the estimated 10,000 women trafficked into Germany were from Central and Eastern Europe and CIS countries (IOM. 1998a , p. 17). In 2002, prostitution in Germany was established as a legitimate job after years of being legalized in tolerance zones. Promotion of prostitution, pimping and brothels are now legal in Germany.
The sheer volume of foreign women in the German prostitution industry suggests that these women were trafficked into Germany, a process euphemistically described as facilitated migration. It is almost impossible for poor women to facilitate their own migration, underwrite the costs of travel and travel documents, and set themselves up in “business” without intervention.
In 1984, a Labor government in the Australian State of Victoria introduced legislation to legalize prostitution in brothels. Subsequent Australian governments expanded legalization culminating in the Prostitution Control Act of 1994. Noting the link between legalization of prostitution and trafficking in Australia, the US Department of State observed: “Trafficking in East Asian women for the sex trade is a growing problem…lax laws – including legalized prostitution in parts of the country – make [anti-trafficking] enforcement difficult at the working level” (U.S. Department of State, 2000, p. 6F).
Twila said:
I referred specifically to South Asia, which includes India, Pakistan, Bhutan, Nepal, the Maldives, and Sri Lanka. I speak a south Asian language and am very aware of the culture there, which is why I specifically mentioned it. Prostitution is very much taboo there, though maybe not in Southeast Asia or East Asia, where Japan would fall (I have no clue about those places).
Twila said:
Sure, and when I'm saying I do not support the legalisation of prostitution, it's because I have made the judgment that it leads to the exploitation of prostitutes, who are usually women. So the negativity of that judgment falls squarely on the johns. Men are using women as objects of pleasure, instead of treating them with the full dignity and status of a human being. It's wrong.
Twila said:
I don't think you've understood the point I was making. I was not saying that choosing not to be a prostitute and choosing not to be raped are comparable things.
I was rebutting the argument that since prostitution has always existed, and likely always will, that therefore we should legalise and regulate it.
There are many other things that happen in society that have always happened, and will always happen, and it is in no way to the benefit of society to legalise and regulate them.
I was showing that just because something has always happened and always will doesn't in any way make it beneficial to legalise it. Rape and murder have always happened and always will, unfortunately, and that is not a basis for legalising or regulating it.
Likewise, the fact that prostitution has always existed and may always exist is no basis for legalising and regulating it.
Twila said:
Feelings are irrelevant. Men aren't buying their personalities. If they are being bought and sold, they're being bought and sold.
twila said:
How would legal prostitution for adults make it easier to detect illegal prostitution for minors? Are all the human traffickers who already deal in children going to go to the gov't offices and attempt to register their child prostitutes, and then the police will be able to take them out? Do police have a difficulty telling who the adults on the street corners are from the children, such that the removal of all the adults to legalised brothels will mean they can just pick up the children off the street?
Keeping prostitution illegal does stigmatize prostitutes to a certain extent, but the fact that so many people here who are in support of legalising prostituion have expressed they wouldn't want someone in their family doing it indicates that the stigma and taboo is still there against prostitution, legal or not.
Most importantly, keeping prostitution illegal stigmatizes the johns and pimps, whereas making prostitution legal would turn them into mere consumers of a legal product.
Perhaps there's an argument that Canada should follow Sweden's example, which does not penalize prostitutes, though it heavily penalizes johns and pimps. I could support a system of that nature.
Twila said:
10 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution
# 2. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.
Legalized or decriminalized prostitution industries are one of the root causes of sex trafficking. One argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that legalization would help to end the exploitation of desperate immigrant women who had been trafficked there for prostitution. However, one report found that 80% of women in the brothels of the Netherlands were trafficked from other countries (Budapest Group, 1999)(1). In 1994, the International Organization of Migration (IOM) stated that in the Netherlands alone, “nearly 70 % of trafficked women were from CEEC [Central and Eastern European Countries]” (IOM, 1995, p. 4).
The government of the Netherlands presents itself as a champion of anti-trafficking policies and programs, yet it has removed every legal impediment to pimping, procuring and brothels. In the year 2000, the Dutch Ministry of Justice argued in favor of a legal quota of foreign “sex workers,” because the Dutch prostitution market demanded a variety of “bodies” (Dutting, 2001, p. 16). Also in 2000, the Dutch government sought and received a judgment from the European Court recognizing prostitution as an economic activity, thereby enabling women from the European Union and former Soviet bloc countries to obtain working permits as “sex workers” in the Dutch sex industry if they could prove that they are self employed. Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Europe report that traffickers use the work permits to bring foreign women into the Dutch prostitution industry, masking the fact that women have been trafficked, by coaching them to describe themselves as independent “migrant sex workers” (Personal Communication, Representative of the International Human Rights Network, 1999).
In the year since lifting the ban on brothels in the Netherlands, eight Dutch victim support organizations reported an increase in the number of victims of trafficking, and twelve victim support organization reported that the number of victims from other countries has not diminished (Bureau NRM, 2002, p. 75). Forty-three of the 348 municipalities (12%) in the Netherlands choose to follow a no-brothel policy, but the Minister of Justice has indicated that the complete banning of prostitution within any municipality could conflict with the federally guaranteed “right to free choice of work” (Bureau NRM, 2002, p.19).
The first steps toward legalization of prostitution in Germany occurred in the 1980s. By 1993, it was widely recognized that 75% of the women in Germany’s prostitution industry were foreigners from Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and other countries in South America (Altink, 1993, p. 33). After the fall of the Berlin wall, 80% of the estimated 10,000 women trafficked into Germany were from Central and Eastern Europe and CIS countries (IOM. 1998a , p. 17). In 2002, prostitution in Germany was established as a legitimate job after years of being legalized in tolerance zones. Promotion of prostitution, pimping and brothels are now legal in Germany.
The sheer volume of foreign women in the German prostitution industry suggests that these women were trafficked into Germany, a process euphemistically described as facilitated migration. It is almost impossible for poor women to facilitate their own migration, underwrite the costs of travel and travel documents, and set themselves up in “business” without intervention.
In 1984, a Labor government in the Australian State of Victoria introduced legislation to legalize prostitution in brothels. Subsequent Australian governments expanded legalization culminating in the Prostitution Control Act of 1994. Noting the link between legalization of prostitution and trafficking in Australia, the US Department of State observed: “Trafficking in East Asian women for the sex trade is a growing problem…lax laws – including legalized prostitution in parts of the country – make [anti-trafficking] enforcement difficult at the working level” (U.S. Department of State, 2000, p. 6F).
RE: How we treat prostitu
Well the US says that about our lax drug laws as well. Whooptey dooo. The US wants everyone to have similar laws as them. They have legalized prostitution in Nevada and do not seem to concerned. Hell they have more prostitutes in L.A. than probabley all of Canada, Australia and UK combined.
Well the US says that about our lax drug laws as well. Whooptey dooo. The US wants everyone to have similar laws as them. They have legalized prostitution in Nevada and do not seem to concerned. Hell they have more prostitutes in L.A. than probabley all of Canada, Australia and UK combined.
As it presently exists in Canada, prostitution is not a victimless crime.
To make it into a victimless event, one would have to remove the pimp, with his drugs and violence that he uses to control his stable of prostitutes.
The event would have to be moved into a safe environment, where both the prostitutes and their johns are protected medically and physically from each other, in a restricted area that has been zoned to accommodate adult entertainment such as bars, theatres, sex/porn shops, and houses of prostitution.
I believe that this would be done better, for the protection of all, if it were operated under the aegises of the government. (Hey! I am Canadian.)
One of the reasons why I believe it would be preferable to legalize prostitution, is for the same reason why I believe we should legalize pot — taking it out of the hands of organized (as well as disorganized) crime, would remove one more source of revenue from those antisocial organizations.
To say that no one was ever forced to accept prostitution, is to ignore one of the major functions of the pimp.
Claiming that welfare is available, so no one is financially forced into prostitution, ignores the fact that Canada’s child poverty rate has never dropped below 14.9% in the past thirty years. (Including welfare payments.)
Aside from the child poverty rates, there are some exceedingly large cracks in our security net, through which the poor can easily disappear.
When the education system fails, part of the wreckage is former students who must seek work at the utter bottom of the workforce. Since women regularly receive less remuneration for similar work done by male competition, and are usually saddled with the responsibility for any children, they are especially well placed to be seduced by a living wage for their children if they enter the prostitution trade. (Which makes the pimp's depredations of her money doubly reprehensible.)
Finally, to single out the prostitute as a person who lowers the morality of a society, without also recalling how that society is regularly treated to the sight of an incompetent CEO leaving a corporation that he helped impoverish, whilst clutching his golden parachute, does not change my opinion..
To me, that is a far more poignant distortion of a society's morality.
To make it into a victimless event, one would have to remove the pimp, with his drugs and violence that he uses to control his stable of prostitutes.
The event would have to be moved into a safe environment, where both the prostitutes and their johns are protected medically and physically from each other, in a restricted area that has been zoned to accommodate adult entertainment such as bars, theatres, sex/porn shops, and houses of prostitution.
I believe that this would be done better, for the protection of all, if it were operated under the aegises of the government. (Hey! I am Canadian.)
One of the reasons why I believe it would be preferable to legalize prostitution, is for the same reason why I believe we should legalize pot — taking it out of the hands of organized (as well as disorganized) crime, would remove one more source of revenue from those antisocial organizations.
To say that no one was ever forced to accept prostitution, is to ignore one of the major functions of the pimp.
Claiming that welfare is available, so no one is financially forced into prostitution, ignores the fact that Canada’s child poverty rate has never dropped below 14.9% in the past thirty years. (Including welfare payments.)
Aside from the child poverty rates, there are some exceedingly large cracks in our security net, through which the poor can easily disappear.
When the education system fails, part of the wreckage is former students who must seek work at the utter bottom of the workforce. Since women regularly receive less remuneration for similar work done by male competition, and are usually saddled with the responsibility for any children, they are especially well placed to be seduced by a living wage for their children if they enter the prostitution trade. (Which makes the pimp's depredations of her money doubly reprehensible.)
Finally, to single out the prostitute as a person who lowers the morality of a society, without also recalling how that society is regularly treated to the sight of an incompetent CEO leaving a corporation that he helped impoverish, whilst clutching his golden parachute, does not change my opinion..
To me, that is a far more poignant distortion of a society's morality.
I never thought much about prostitutes until the news about that bloody pig farm started hitting the headlines. People have said that if the police had acted sooner, some of the girls might have been saved. I don't agree. Not all, but most of these women who's DNA turned up on the pig farm, were not the best at staying in touch with family. When they went "missing", it wasn't reported for weeks, some times, months, or years. Is using the services of a desperate young woman for money the first cousin to rape? I think it is. How would you like your daughter to be treated?
I have never had much exposure to prostitutes, so I don't know how I would treat them. We have none roaming the streets here...just hoochies that frequesnt te bars and bootleggers (that have recently been cracked down on) hoping to pick-up, and maybe get a drink in the process. Perhaps my little province is lucky for that , because any of the girls who would become prostitutes out of laziness lack the gumption to get up and go to halifax or elsewhere, so they eventually ge off their butts and get a job. Those who truly want to go into the trade, save and go, but it's not something that is really "done" around here
manda said:
:wink: ...It is probably done, just very very well concealed. People know that you can pay for sex here, it's just a matter of finding it.
Sadly this is all true:
:lol: Working the midnight shift at Tim Hortons, we had this old (72ish) drunk guy hanging out in the store, would not leave. He was determined that Me and the other guy knew where to find hookers in charlottetown. He was so adamant that he hung around for about 4-5 hours bothering us constantly and trying to give us lots of $$$ (he had a mittfull of 20's) Unfortunately Nither I or the otherguy were natives of PEI so we couldn't help him.
He became so bothersome that we hatched a plan... I confronted him and told him that he was right, and that he came to the right place, meanwhile the other guy was pretending to talk on the phone with The ringleader, we were running an underground prostitution ring throughout all of the Tim Hortons in Charlottetown, and that we'd fix him up. After talking with the Boss he was told to go to the Tim Hortons on Mount edward road where he'll be hooked up. The best part was The guy who was working midnights there (alone) was having his very first night on the job...I finished training him the other day. :lol: :lol:
:x Needless to say he caught on after a few hours and called for help and we couldn't help laughing, so he gave us shit, and worse he sent the drunker back.
:? We were about to hit the busy part of our night so by the time the confused drunker was back, we told him that the cab that was taking the woman to TH's broke down and she called from the gas station on the other side of town. So we sent him there and he had to ask the attendant where he could find "Amanda Hugankiss"...Never did see him after that.
On the Serious side though, if prostitution were legal we may end up running into this conundrum, yeah that would go over well with the healh care system eh?
Child-sex ring uncovered in Winnipeg, police allege
Last Updated Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:27:11 EST
CBC News
Winnipeg police say they are investigating one of the largest sexual exploitation rings ever seen in the city, allegedly involving more than 30 children ranging in age from 18 months to 17 years.
Sgt. Kelly Dennison
Sgt. Kelly Dennison said about 20 girls – aged 12 to 17 – were sold into prostitution.
Dennison said the other children younger than age 12, including a baby of only 18 months, weren't necessarily forced to perform sexual acts but may have been exposed to them because they lived in the houses where they were taking place.
So far, police have charged two women with procuring children for the purposes of prostitution, living off the avails of prostitution and corrupting children.
The corruption charges stem from the plight of the younger children, Dennison explained.
"A minor can be corrupted if they're subjected to constant abuse, constant alcoholism, if they're in an environment where they have nowhere to go other than to observe certain things going on," he said.
Police said more arrests could be made as the investigation continues.
"Just by sheer number, it's probably the largest, or one of the largest, investigations we're doing," Dennison said.
The children involved in this case have been removed from three homes in Winnipeg's West End.
Jane Runner – who works with New Directions, an organization that helps women and children escape sexual exploitation – said the case isn't as uncommon as people would like to believe.
Runner estimated that only 10 per cent of prostitution happens on the street, where it is visible to the public.
She said the case highlights the importance of addressing the root problems that make children vulnerable to sexual exploitation: poverty, homelessness and addiction.
"If younger children are witnessing this, and this is all they're seeing, it becomes normalized, it becomes the way of life," Runner said.
"Those kids who are growing up in this kind of environment need to understand this isn't a normal behaviour, activity."
Last Updated Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:27:11 EST
CBC News
Winnipeg police say they are investigating one of the largest sexual exploitation rings ever seen in the city, allegedly involving more than 30 children ranging in age from 18 months to 17 years.
Sgt. Kelly Dennison
Sgt. Kelly Dennison said about 20 girls – aged 12 to 17 – were sold into prostitution.
Dennison said the other children younger than age 12, including a baby of only 18 months, weren't necessarily forced to perform sexual acts but may have been exposed to them because they lived in the houses where they were taking place.
So far, police have charged two women with procuring children for the purposes of prostitution, living off the avails of prostitution and corrupting children.
The corruption charges stem from the plight of the younger children, Dennison explained.
"A minor can be corrupted if they're subjected to constant abuse, constant alcoholism, if they're in an environment where they have nowhere to go other than to observe certain things going on," he said.
Police said more arrests could be made as the investigation continues.
"Just by sheer number, it's probably the largest, or one of the largest, investigations we're doing," Dennison said.
The children involved in this case have been removed from three homes in Winnipeg's West End.
Jane Runner – who works with New Directions, an organization that helps women and children escape sexual exploitation – said the case isn't as uncommon as people would like to believe.
Runner estimated that only 10 per cent of prostitution happens on the street, where it is visible to the public.
She said the case highlights the importance of addressing the root problems that make children vulnerable to sexual exploitation: poverty, homelessness and addiction.
"If younger children are witnessing this, and this is all they're seeing, it becomes normalized, it becomes the way of life," Runner said.
"Those kids who are growing up in this kind of environment need to understand this isn't a normal behaviour, activity."
If anyone feels that Prostitution should be legal then they have to tell the politicans that.
Why should anyone have to live in fear of going to jail, losing their home and everything they worked hard to get just because they are a prostitute? Two consenting adults doing something they both want to do.
Single mother's who are escorting have no rights, or none I know of anyway that will help them protect their children from being taken away from them for this.
If you have an ex as I do and you go to the courts to make him accountable for the daughter we share he will tell everyone that I am a prostitue which will put my custody in jeopardy. He does not care what I do for a living nor does he want the reponsibility of raising his daughter everyday. His whole plan is to make my life very difficult to live. On having a conversation about him paying child support he said "You make more money then me." He does not want to be financilly responsible or emotionally supportive for his daughter. Yet he wants to pick her up one day a week for a few hours (his choice) and that's all. His whole goal is to make out he is a good loving father to his family friends etc yet his actions or lack there of has proven to be that he is just another dead beat.
If I do not ask him for any help with our daughter we get along just fine. When I ask him about child support issues, daycare issues, medical issues etc he gets upset and refuses to talk to me. Then he will expect to see his daughter as to what suits him and when I deny him visiting her becasue he avoids responsibilty for her he calls the police, the childrens aid and the landlord where I live and tells them I am a prostitue.
Prositution not being legal gives abusers like him all the rights. He holds what I do for a living over my head for the times when I either ask him for something or when he feels he is not getting what he wants from me.
I am a good mother. I do everything in my power to make sure our daughter is happy and healthy. Me being a woman who has never had any issues with alcohol and drugs, which is a sterotype many people have about prositutes. I should not have to live in fear of losing her child/children and their home. Not to mention losing everything due to being sent to jail for what ever reason.
The only reason woman such as myself have to live in fear is because very few want to get public about this issue. Most want to remain anonamyous for a wide range of reasons. I will name 2 of the biggest.
1) They care too much about what others will think and say about and to them if others know where their hearts are on legalizing prositution.
2) Religious reasons- YES it may be a sin to be a prostitute but everyone sins. No matter how great or how small, a sin is a sin. As the bible says dont judge others by their sins or you too shall be judged.
I mean this is our society. We bad, horrible, drug addicted, alcoholic, child neglectors who are prostitutes are named this way cause that is what most people see and hear about on the streets. I have seen many woman who does not live this life style and are prostitutes but others still judge them and say "well something must be wrong with them that they can do such things." Well nothing is wrong with us something is wrong with those who can critize others and never walked in our shoes.
You see most people who sell sex for money start out needing money. And I will say that the mojority of the people doing this can and will not do this line of work for a long length of time. It's not for everyone. Some can not handle it for what ever reason so they get out. But for the ones that want to make this a long career and can deal with this line of work should be able to live like everyone else who lives and works in this country.
If you don't see escorting or prostituion as a job it's only because you have not done it. But let me tell you its no different then any other sales postition and the hours can be 9 to 5.
People from all walks of life use services from escorts yet they will not come forward and be of any help or support for a service that they use.
Sacred.
Why should anyone have to live in fear of going to jail, losing their home and everything they worked hard to get just because they are a prostitute? Two consenting adults doing something they both want to do.
Single mother's who are escorting have no rights, or none I know of anyway that will help them protect their children from being taken away from them for this.
If you have an ex as I do and you go to the courts to make him accountable for the daughter we share he will tell everyone that I am a prostitue which will put my custody in jeopardy. He does not care what I do for a living nor does he want the reponsibility of raising his daughter everyday. His whole plan is to make my life very difficult to live. On having a conversation about him paying child support he said "You make more money then me." He does not want to be financilly responsible or emotionally supportive for his daughter. Yet he wants to pick her up one day a week for a few hours (his choice) and that's all. His whole goal is to make out he is a good loving father to his family friends etc yet his actions or lack there of has proven to be that he is just another dead beat.
If I do not ask him for any help with our daughter we get along just fine. When I ask him about child support issues, daycare issues, medical issues etc he gets upset and refuses to talk to me. Then he will expect to see his daughter as to what suits him and when I deny him visiting her becasue he avoids responsibilty for her he calls the police, the childrens aid and the landlord where I live and tells them I am a prostitue.
Prositution not being legal gives abusers like him all the rights. He holds what I do for a living over my head for the times when I either ask him for something or when he feels he is not getting what he wants from me.
I am a good mother. I do everything in my power to make sure our daughter is happy and healthy. Me being a woman who has never had any issues with alcohol and drugs, which is a sterotype many people have about prositutes. I should not have to live in fear of losing her child/children and their home. Not to mention losing everything due to being sent to jail for what ever reason.
The only reason woman such as myself have to live in fear is because very few want to get public about this issue. Most want to remain anonamyous for a wide range of reasons. I will name 2 of the biggest.
1) They care too much about what others will think and say about and to them if others know where their hearts are on legalizing prositution.
2) Religious reasons- YES it may be a sin to be a prostitute but everyone sins. No matter how great or how small, a sin is a sin. As the bible says dont judge others by their sins or you too shall be judged.
I mean this is our society. We bad, horrible, drug addicted, alcoholic, child neglectors who are prostitutes are named this way cause that is what most people see and hear about on the streets. I have seen many woman who does not live this life style and are prostitutes but others still judge them and say "well something must be wrong with them that they can do such things." Well nothing is wrong with us something is wrong with those who can critize others and never walked in our shoes.
You see most people who sell sex for money start out needing money. And I will say that the mojority of the people doing this can and will not do this line of work for a long length of time. It's not for everyone. Some can not handle it for what ever reason so they get out. But for the ones that want to make this a long career and can deal with this line of work should be able to live like everyone else who lives and works in this country.
If you don't see escorting or prostituion as a job it's only because you have not done it. But let me tell you its no different then any other sales postition and the hours can be 9 to 5.
People from all walks of life use services from escorts yet they will not come forward and be of any help or support for a service that they use.
Sacred.
Scared, well stated. As a child I was raised as a Roman Cathlic, I was told many things were a sin. As an adult I don't agree with these teachings. I do not think Prostitution is a sin, if an adult male or female, of their own free will, want to earn an income from Prostitution I have no problem with that. I think it should be legal. However, anyone using children or teens for the benifit of Protitution or child sex should be harshly dealt with. These inviduals do a lot of harm to the young and are preditors. As for your ex, is he not blackmailing you? Is he not benifiting from you being a "Prostitute",no child support, I would call that being a pimp.
Thank-you for your understanding and compassion for my situation.
It is funny that you say pimp. He actually one halloween dressed up as one to go to his employment as a dj. He pays child support now but has changed jobs and wont tell the F.R.O Family Responsiblity Unit where he is working. He has changed jobs 3 times since our first going to court and is paying but he pays when ever he feels like it and it is not based on the income that he is getting now. It's not so much that I want his money honestly I could do without it, it's that he feels he can control and decide for his daughter and for me what he does for her and at what times. That makes me angery to want it. Wanting him to be a responsible father is all I want from him. And what I mean by that is that he have conversations with me only concerning our daughter. Not about his life. Set times he will visit with his daughter and bring her home. And even if he does not have his mother or sister around to help him care for our daughter on his visits that he will in no way have them at my place. Or be upset and vengeful if I say no to the visits at my place. Everything above and beyond that are things that a parent would do for their beloved child. Like leave work when noitified the child is sick, hurt, in trouble etc. Just to mention one action that is proof of love. There are many others but hey I would be writing all night. He has always been about controlling me and now he will stop at nothing to see me have nothing. His actions and behaviour towards his daughter and to me are now very scarey. I feel like I need to run. But I have no where to run to. Not yet anyway. I will be sacrificing much of my time from now on with my daughter to work harder so to move from where we are to escape from his trap. I am very scared that I will not. But I know me being me I will die trying and I hope that this is not my fate. A man who has treated his childs mother so poorly does not deserve in my death to raise or have the luxeury of seeing his daughter become a woman.
I totally agree with what you had said about children and people corrupting the minds and bodies of any child. I think these adults who can do this to infants up to teens should be showed no mercy.
These people often get away with their horrible crimes with little or no jail time not even considering prision time. Some dont even get caught. It's really sad because the way the system works is this:
Lets say the child did not get molested lets say the child had been fondled by someone eg. A babysitter or trusted friend. This child being young two or younger (just learning to talk and use thier words.) Finds a way to explain to the parents what had happened. The parents out of there minds with every emotion possible notifies the police. The police do not go to speak with the people in question at all yet sets up a meeting to talk with this child alone. The meeting takes place in a room quiet cozy but bare besides some couches, a few chairs a table and a camera. The child (2 years or younger) never before meeting the man(detective) who will be conducting the interview. Unless you would count the few minutes of introductions at the main door of the police office headquarters as enough time for a child at around that age to get comfortable with anyone. Well any parent knows that not all children take to anyone that quickly. The child without parents present is brought to a room is asked and expected to answer whatever questions asked of them. If the child can not find the words or does not answer the questions then the police have no choice but to close the case. Not ever, not even once being contacted by the police the people or person in question lives happily ever after. The family of the child live with much regret or what could they have done differently and fear for the child. Hoping that the child will never remember the whole ordeal so to not mar the mind and future of the child.
I do not know what the polices or proceedures are when it comes to crimes like this but when a child can not speak for themselves and without any evidence evil people remain free and or go without harsh punishment.
Who is going to protect the children who can not speak for themselves?
All I can say when it comes to this life and these hard issues is that you have to believe in some higher power. Becasue if you don't you will go crazy with hatred. I have to believe that these people will be brought to their knees by someone someday for some reason and made to suffer and or that God will undoubtably seek justice for the sins they have committed against innocent children.
Remember the saying ....."It takes a village to raise but one child." ------- I often wonder in a place as large as this city why I feel so alone.
Sacred.
It is funny that you say pimp. He actually one halloween dressed up as one to go to his employment as a dj. He pays child support now but has changed jobs and wont tell the F.R.O Family Responsiblity Unit where he is working. He has changed jobs 3 times since our first going to court and is paying but he pays when ever he feels like it and it is not based on the income that he is getting now. It's not so much that I want his money honestly I could do without it, it's that he feels he can control and decide for his daughter and for me what he does for her and at what times. That makes me angery to want it. Wanting him to be a responsible father is all I want from him. And what I mean by that is that he have conversations with me only concerning our daughter. Not about his life. Set times he will visit with his daughter and bring her home. And even if he does not have his mother or sister around to help him care for our daughter on his visits that he will in no way have them at my place. Or be upset and vengeful if I say no to the visits at my place. Everything above and beyond that are things that a parent would do for their beloved child. Like leave work when noitified the child is sick, hurt, in trouble etc. Just to mention one action that is proof of love. There are many others but hey I would be writing all night. He has always been about controlling me and now he will stop at nothing to see me have nothing. His actions and behaviour towards his daughter and to me are now very scarey. I feel like I need to run. But I have no where to run to. Not yet anyway. I will be sacrificing much of my time from now on with my daughter to work harder so to move from where we are to escape from his trap. I am very scared that I will not. But I know me being me I will die trying and I hope that this is not my fate. A man who has treated his childs mother so poorly does not deserve in my death to raise or have the luxeury of seeing his daughter become a woman.
I totally agree with what you had said about children and people corrupting the minds and bodies of any child. I think these adults who can do this to infants up to teens should be showed no mercy.
These people often get away with their horrible crimes with little or no jail time not even considering prision time. Some dont even get caught. It's really sad because the way the system works is this:
Lets say the child did not get molested lets say the child had been fondled by someone eg. A babysitter or trusted friend. This child being young two or younger (just learning to talk and use thier words.) Finds a way to explain to the parents what had happened. The parents out of there minds with every emotion possible notifies the police. The police do not go to speak with the people in question at all yet sets up a meeting to talk with this child alone. The meeting takes place in a room quiet cozy but bare besides some couches, a few chairs a table and a camera. The child (2 years or younger) never before meeting the man(detective) who will be conducting the interview. Unless you would count the few minutes of introductions at the main door of the police office headquarters as enough time for a child at around that age to get comfortable with anyone. Well any parent knows that not all children take to anyone that quickly. The child without parents present is brought to a room is asked and expected to answer whatever questions asked of them. If the child can not find the words or does not answer the questions then the police have no choice but to close the case. Not ever, not even once being contacted by the police the people or person in question lives happily ever after. The family of the child live with much regret or what could they have done differently and fear for the child. Hoping that the child will never remember the whole ordeal so to not mar the mind and future of the child.
I do not know what the polices or proceedures are when it comes to crimes like this but when a child can not speak for themselves and without any evidence evil people remain free and or go without harsh punishment.
Who is going to protect the children who can not speak for themselves?
All I can say when it comes to this life and these hard issues is that you have to believe in some higher power. Becasue if you don't you will go crazy with hatred. I have to believe that these people will be brought to their knees by someone someday for some reason and made to suffer and or that God will undoubtably seek justice for the sins they have committed against innocent children.
Remember the saying ....."It takes a village to raise but one child." ------- I often wonder in a place as large as this city why I feel so alone.
Sacred.
I just read a reply from SHIVA.
I am so horrified at what she has wrote. For her to say that welfare is the answer for everything really proves she does not know what she's talking about.
First off welfare is poverty! They don't give individauls let alone families enough to pay the rent. I don't know how happy you would feel balancing a budget that requires 1200 a month when you are only given 800 from social assistance. Oh yeh and having to go with your kids to food banks to get food.
As for the nice free education your talking about that is free to all the poor. Who gave you that info? The welfare will only give up to $5000 for an education. I'm not sure what education one could get with that but it may pay one dollar more then the high min wage that anyone would get other wise. And not to mention that you have to cry and holler just so they will give you that one time free education is so fun. if you even are so lucky to get it. its only a one time thing not a yearly 5000.
Oh yeh why dont we start talking about the little essentials us parents needs to take care of a child like one examole is medicine. Oh yeh they give welfare recipients a drug plan card. Sure they do but as with any drug plan only certain medications are allowed some are not even offered but may be needed. Whose paying for that? No one so someone on welfare has to remain sick , uncured, or maybe even die becasue they can ot get the medications needed.
Lets say your child gets sick in the midle of the night you have budgeted your whole welfare cheque and tylonal was not on your list of expenses what happens then? Or yeh you go to your family, your friends, your neighbours. But what if you dont have family or friends? Even if you do,how long will they be able to support you in times of troubles? And the situation remains...your child is sick...What do you do?
It is easy for people like you to sit there and make comments like that because you never had to live off any assisstance no doubt or you undoubtably live in a fantasy world. There were shows done on city tv about this very topic and the outcome was that the reporter wanted to experience the welfare system for herself. She lived off welfare for a mere week and was disheartened by
the daily struggles to survive on what the government provides. As she did you should go through the system to see what it is like. I will tell you without the help of many family mambers and friends
etc you will not survive the month. Some people do not have such help and therefore have no choice but to meet there own needs which ever way they can. And if that is prostitution so be it.
Welfare in Canada and in the US is not giving their people anything they need to get on there feet and be respectable citizens in society. First, if needed provide the educationg for free to those with no to little income. A fundage more then 5000 that will insure a solid education. And provide full coverage of a course of choice by the person. Provide courses that will enable the person to make honest goals for their lives not programs that are set up to teach people to fill out resumes. Allow the individual to work out his or her own life plan to better his or her situation and make them accountable for what progresses they are continuing to make while under the care of the welfare. Provide monies with a resonsible budget to account for rent, clothes, food, medicine, emergencies etc. And make all individuals keep receipts of all expenses and purchaces so to balance, readjust or terminate the care welfare will provide if these demands are not met. Provide bus tickets and or gas monies into the budget before not after the individuals plans and goals are set to insure that the person or family has the means to get to the places they need to be without excuses. Plan weekly or bi weekly meetings with the individual to insure that they remain on the path they have chose. If there goal is to seek employment then let them do so within a reasonable amount of time without excuses and provide care until they have got on their feet again and is able to provide the basics for themselves. All proof of progress is in the work or school attenance and in the reciepts they will have to provide. Daycare subsized and a week short waiting lists if this means the government has to open and fund new facilities so be it but they should make it happen. Change the percentage of child care providers to child by 1 care giver to 3 children to insure the children get the attention and care they all deserve while in daycare. There are people who will try to fraud any system but one set up like this will differ these people becasue of the progress reports the weekly or bi weekly visits as well as the making of a solid plan for improvement. The funds for education not given directly to the individual but only to the schools directly. The only monies handed to the recipient is the monies for the month which should be direct deposited into the persons account in two payments for the month not one which will make budgeting a little easier . And as I said before all expences need to be accounted for with receipts which will be viewed on the weekly or bi weekly meetings with the worker. Life has its ups and downs and sometimes there will be considerations to the rules. Such as new mothers and or people with learning disabilities, mental illness etc. But all issues and situations must be placed into consideration and be made known to the worker to be able to be eligiable for the program.
Sure there may be little problems with my plan of the way it should be but these plans are good plans that should be put into consideration and revised if the need is there for it to be.
Yes this all costs money but with a plan like this in place life would be so much safer, cleaner, happier and like most people who are opposed to legalizing prostitution it will ensure that if anyone is receiving pleasure and sex from someone, you will know he or she is not paying for it.
The debate is a long one in the eyes of someone so sheltered yet full of opinons and critisims. But for the people in the world that are living life in poverty the case is closed. Welfare as it is, is no ones safety net. Its just a net with major holes in it that can not support anyone.
Other countries give their people a hell of a lot more and are better organized with there programs. Canada and the US are rih enough to provide I am sure.
So blame our government for having failed the people who sell sex for money. Dont blame the ones who have and are suffering. Dont blame people for wanting more out of life then a cheque that does not allow someone to live with dignity or one that does not support anyones basic needs.
Lastly, for the love of GOD do not even start to say that prosituting oneself is a perversion and is linked to child porn, child sex, child abuse etc. Someone who does that and exposes a child to that life is perverted and very sick mentally.
Being forced to do something someone does not want to do is cruel. No one, adult or child should have to do anything they dont want to do. The people that do this to others should be punished greatly when it comes to sex with a child for money or forced sex. But I am not talking about that here and that is not the issue. Selling a child for sex of any kind has no link to prostuiton of two or more consenting adults. No one is forcing me to do what I need to do to live but the system itself.
News flash!!!!!!
Woman who are escorts that work indepenantly for themselves work this job to save money to educate themselves, feed, clothe, and pay bills just like everyone else. Prostituion does not and is not for everyone a life style, such as sex, drugs rocknroll. It to most is a job.
Woman who work for escort agencies went there to apply they were not sot after and they too are not doing anything they do not want to do. These woman too have bills, and a life other then what she does for money.
Why should these people live on the edge everyday or night in fear that they will get arrested or lose all they have for doing things they want to do?
In the end. it's like this. No one can tell someone how to live, who to have sex with, for what reasons and have the right to tell them what they can and can not do with the use of there own bodies. The only one I know in this life I will have to answer greatly for is GOD for my sin, as everyone else will as well. And right now he knows this job I have is my only way for us to become stronger in life.
When it comes to two consenting adults behind closed doors where no one is getting hurt why shouldnt it be legal?
Scared.
I am so horrified at what she has wrote. For her to say that welfare is the answer for everything really proves she does not know what she's talking about.
First off welfare is poverty! They don't give individauls let alone families enough to pay the rent. I don't know how happy you would feel balancing a budget that requires 1200 a month when you are only given 800 from social assistance. Oh yeh and having to go with your kids to food banks to get food.
As for the nice free education your talking about that is free to all the poor. Who gave you that info? The welfare will only give up to $5000 for an education. I'm not sure what education one could get with that but it may pay one dollar more then the high min wage that anyone would get other wise. And not to mention that you have to cry and holler just so they will give you that one time free education is so fun. if you even are so lucky to get it. its only a one time thing not a yearly 5000.
Oh yeh why dont we start talking about the little essentials us parents needs to take care of a child like one examole is medicine. Oh yeh they give welfare recipients a drug plan card. Sure they do but as with any drug plan only certain medications are allowed some are not even offered but may be needed. Whose paying for that? No one so someone on welfare has to remain sick , uncured, or maybe even die becasue they can ot get the medications needed.
Lets say your child gets sick in the midle of the night you have budgeted your whole welfare cheque and tylonal was not on your list of expenses what happens then? Or yeh you go to your family, your friends, your neighbours. But what if you dont have family or friends? Even if you do,how long will they be able to support you in times of troubles? And the situation remains...your child is sick...What do you do?
It is easy for people like you to sit there and make comments like that because you never had to live off any assisstance no doubt or you undoubtably live in a fantasy world. There were shows done on city tv about this very topic and the outcome was that the reporter wanted to experience the welfare system for herself. She lived off welfare for a mere week and was disheartened by
the daily struggles to survive on what the government provides. As she did you should go through the system to see what it is like. I will tell you without the help of many family mambers and friends
etc you will not survive the month. Some people do not have such help and therefore have no choice but to meet there own needs which ever way they can. And if that is prostitution so be it.
Welfare in Canada and in the US is not giving their people anything they need to get on there feet and be respectable citizens in society. First, if needed provide the educationg for free to those with no to little income. A fundage more then 5000 that will insure a solid education. And provide full coverage of a course of choice by the person. Provide courses that will enable the person to make honest goals for their lives not programs that are set up to teach people to fill out resumes. Allow the individual to work out his or her own life plan to better his or her situation and make them accountable for what progresses they are continuing to make while under the care of the welfare. Provide monies with a resonsible budget to account for rent, clothes, food, medicine, emergencies etc. And make all individuals keep receipts of all expenses and purchaces so to balance, readjust or terminate the care welfare will provide if these demands are not met. Provide bus tickets and or gas monies into the budget before not after the individuals plans and goals are set to insure that the person or family has the means to get to the places they need to be without excuses. Plan weekly or bi weekly meetings with the individual to insure that they remain on the path they have chose. If there goal is to seek employment then let them do so within a reasonable amount of time without excuses and provide care until they have got on their feet again and is able to provide the basics for themselves. All proof of progress is in the work or school attenance and in the reciepts they will have to provide. Daycare subsized and a week short waiting lists if this means the government has to open and fund new facilities so be it but they should make it happen. Change the percentage of child care providers to child by 1 care giver to 3 children to insure the children get the attention and care they all deserve while in daycare. There are people who will try to fraud any system but one set up like this will differ these people becasue of the progress reports the weekly or bi weekly visits as well as the making of a solid plan for improvement. The funds for education not given directly to the individual but only to the schools directly. The only monies handed to the recipient is the monies for the month which should be direct deposited into the persons account in two payments for the month not one which will make budgeting a little easier . And as I said before all expences need to be accounted for with receipts which will be viewed on the weekly or bi weekly meetings with the worker. Life has its ups and downs and sometimes there will be considerations to the rules. Such as new mothers and or people with learning disabilities, mental illness etc. But all issues and situations must be placed into consideration and be made known to the worker to be able to be eligiable for the program.
Sure there may be little problems with my plan of the way it should be but these plans are good plans that should be put into consideration and revised if the need is there for it to be.
Yes this all costs money but with a plan like this in place life would be so much safer, cleaner, happier and like most people who are opposed to legalizing prostitution it will ensure that if anyone is receiving pleasure and sex from someone, you will know he or she is not paying for it.
The debate is a long one in the eyes of someone so sheltered yet full of opinons and critisims. But for the people in the world that are living life in poverty the case is closed. Welfare as it is, is no ones safety net. Its just a net with major holes in it that can not support anyone.
Other countries give their people a hell of a lot more and are better organized with there programs. Canada and the US are rih enough to provide I am sure.
So blame our government for having failed the people who sell sex for money. Dont blame the ones who have and are suffering. Dont blame people for wanting more out of life then a cheque that does not allow someone to live with dignity or one that does not support anyones basic needs.
Lastly, for the love of GOD do not even start to say that prosituting oneself is a perversion and is linked to child porn, child sex, child abuse etc. Someone who does that and exposes a child to that life is perverted and very sick mentally.
Being forced to do something someone does not want to do is cruel. No one, adult or child should have to do anything they dont want to do. The people that do this to others should be punished greatly when it comes to sex with a child for money or forced sex. But I am not talking about that here and that is not the issue. Selling a child for sex of any kind has no link to prostuiton of two or more consenting adults. No one is forcing me to do what I need to do to live but the system itself.
News flash!!!!!!
Woman who are escorts that work indepenantly for themselves work this job to save money to educate themselves, feed, clothe, and pay bills just like everyone else. Prostituion does not and is not for everyone a life style, such as sex, drugs rocknroll. It to most is a job.
Woman who work for escort agencies went there to apply they were not sot after and they too are not doing anything they do not want to do. These woman too have bills, and a life other then what she does for money.
Why should these people live on the edge everyday or night in fear that they will get arrested or lose all they have for doing things they want to do?
In the end. it's like this. No one can tell someone how to live, who to have sex with, for what reasons and have the right to tell them what they can and can not do with the use of there own bodies. The only one I know in this life I will have to answer greatly for is GOD for my sin, as everyone else will as well. And right now he knows this job I have is my only way for us to become stronger in life.
When it comes to two consenting adults behind closed doors where no one is getting hurt why shouldnt it be legal?
Scared.
RE: How we treat prostitu
First I love how its a 'Mans' pleasure, as put by Shiva, while traditionally this activity has been that of males, women are just as prevelent in their involvment of sexual activity outside of marriage boundries. In earlier societies it was difficult for women to attain the same sexual activity of a male because of the risk of pregnancy and loss of social status as a result. On the other hand women of ancient and medieval societies engaged in sexual acts with eunichs on regular occasion, with no risk of preganancy and therefor little risk of being caught. While this does pertain the the upper class of most ancient societies, one could and should also argue the point that among the lower class a man could not afford to have affairs, his life was focused on the survival of his household and more selfishly himself. Since it would be very easy to write an essay on this topic I am going to move on. In recent years since the development of birth control there has been and is a movement towards 'free' sex for both sexes. Hence one can also argue that with the riskes of unwanted children mittigated women are just as prone and desiring of sexual pleasure and activity. I would further go one to say that over the next 100 years we will see a significant increase in the sector of male prostitution as a result. Good or bad, thats not what I am arguing, what I am saying is that the sexes, male and female are intrinsically equal, while still maintaining our differences.
As for prostitution I think that it should be regulated, as with any industry based on an illegal good, most of the ill effects from its existence stop once it is legalized. This will raise other issues but they will be issues that can be solved through courts and legal proceedings to protect the rights of individuals and establish fair guidelines for the opperation of business. The same things goes for pot. While I am not one of the pot persuasion, I would rather see it controlled and regulated than in the basement of some joe/jane's house causing untold side effects to children and the neighbourhood.
First I love how its a 'Mans' pleasure, as put by Shiva, while traditionally this activity has been that of males, women are just as prevelent in their involvment of sexual activity outside of marriage boundries. In earlier societies it was difficult for women to attain the same sexual activity of a male because of the risk of pregnancy and loss of social status as a result. On the other hand women of ancient and medieval societies engaged in sexual acts with eunichs on regular occasion, with no risk of preganancy and therefor little risk of being caught. While this does pertain the the upper class of most ancient societies, one could and should also argue the point that among the lower class a man could not afford to have affairs, his life was focused on the survival of his household and more selfishly himself. Since it would be very easy to write an essay on this topic I am going to move on. In recent years since the development of birth control there has been and is a movement towards 'free' sex for both sexes. Hence one can also argue that with the riskes of unwanted children mittigated women are just as prone and desiring of sexual pleasure and activity. I would further go one to say that over the next 100 years we will see a significant increase in the sector of male prostitution as a result. Good or bad, thats not what I am arguing, what I am saying is that the sexes, male and female are intrinsically equal, while still maintaining our differences.
As for prostitution I think that it should be regulated, as with any industry based on an illegal good, most of the ill effects from its existence stop once it is legalized. This will raise other issues but they will be issues that can be solved through courts and legal proceedings to protect the rights of individuals and establish fair guidelines for the opperation of business. The same things goes for pot. While I am not one of the pot persuasion, I would rather see it controlled and regulated than in the basement of some joe/jane's house causing untold side effects to children and the neighbourhood.
RE: How we treat prostitu
Actually I'm not, but it amuses me that we cover it primarily as a one-sided affair.
Prostitution has been legalized in the state of QLD (oz) for a while now, I think since about 1987ish... not entirely sure of the date, but thats irrelevant to the point I am about to make.
since legalization, there have been fewer publicised cases of extreme violence and crime related to the 'business' of prostitution. No more pimps (though I am sure somewhere they exist) because the rules stipulate operating out of a house, no street workin and I think you can have a max of 4 women share a 'brothel' although they dont strictly call them such here anymore.
in any case, from my memory, the violence aspect of the street crime has gone alll but completely, however I am sure, as with all 'professions' that have some sort of 'underworld mystique' as they do here, drugs, guns and criminal behaviour can't be all that far away.
maybe it just buried the problem, and the media dont cover it.
it's hard for me to say, since I don't actively seek out information on the business of prostitution, but as an observer who witnessed the police corruption enquiries, and all the associated problems (all of the abovementioned) the prostitution theme is very much 'null and void' since it was legalized.
I'd say legalization is worth investigating.
Actually I'm not, but it amuses me that we cover it primarily as a one-sided affair.
Prostitution has been legalized in the state of QLD (oz) for a while now, I think since about 1987ish... not entirely sure of the date, but thats irrelevant to the point I am about to make.
since legalization, there have been fewer publicised cases of extreme violence and crime related to the 'business' of prostitution. No more pimps (though I am sure somewhere they exist) because the rules stipulate operating out of a house, no street workin and I think you can have a max of 4 women share a 'brothel' although they dont strictly call them such here anymore.
in any case, from my memory, the violence aspect of the street crime has gone alll but completely, however I am sure, as with all 'professions' that have some sort of 'underworld mystique' as they do here, drugs, guns and criminal behaviour can't be all that far away.
maybe it just buried the problem, and the media dont cover it.
it's hard for me to say, since I don't actively seek out information on the business of prostitution, but as an observer who witnessed the police corruption enquiries, and all the associated problems (all of the abovementioned) the prostitution theme is very much 'null and void' since it was legalized.
I'd say legalization is worth investigating.
Yes, you could write an essay but all your facts would be from partically old news as well as your own ideas of how it was for men and woman years and years ago and in history books. Dont try to cleverly dismiss all I have wrote about here or rather take what I said as a waste of energy. I took up too much space to write about my ideas, thoughts, feelings and circumstances that has been affecting my life? Obviously the problem here is that most people opposed to legalizing prostutition (not sex crimes) are getting all there info from a text books or better then thou newspapers etc. They have no balls, or guts to go make themselves a better informated debater by getting involved and speaking to others who do sell sex for money. Talk to the people. Discuss issues from both sides of the spectrum and never be so close minded.
Men of all status' use escorts as well as nationalities, backgrounds, education etc. But that does not mean all men cheat or use prostitutes etc.
You have just said that the only reason a poor man stayed and took care of his family in history was because he was poor. omg. What about caring about family? How much did a prostitute charge back then anyway, a dime? A whole dollar?
Take India in 2006 for example prostitutes there sell sex to poor men every where everday for next to nothing. If the community can not afford higher prices for the prostitutes, the sex workers will accept what ever she or he can get.
We are not living in the past, it's 2006. And my fears are real. We can talk about this forever but until we place action where our mouths are we will have people on the streets selling what ever they can to get by.
Scared.
Men of all status' use escorts as well as nationalities, backgrounds, education etc. But that does not mean all men cheat or use prostitutes etc.
You have just said that the only reason a poor man stayed and took care of his family in history was because he was poor. omg. What about caring about family? How much did a prostitute charge back then anyway, a dime? A whole dollar?
Take India in 2006 for example prostitutes there sell sex to poor men every where everday for next to nothing. If the community can not afford higher prices for the prostitutes, the sex workers will accept what ever she or he can get.
We are not living in the past, it's 2006. And my fears are real. We can talk about this forever but until we place action where our mouths are we will have people on the streets selling what ever they can to get by.
Scared.