Homosexuality
- Thread starter gerryh
- Start date
Why do the ten commandments still count? Did Jesus ever list all the things that count and don't count?
Problem solved then. But I'm still going to covet my neighbour's ***. Jesus can't tell me what to do and that's a fine ***.
Read through Romans 1. That is by Paul, who received the message directly from Christ, in a blinding revelation on the road to Damacus.. on which he was travelling to persecute Christians.
This is the relevant passage.. but its worth reading the whole text for the context.
Timothy 1:10 is the passage where he describes homosexuality as an abomination.
Of course you could reject Paul as some psychotic prone to hallucinations and hysteria.. but then you'd have to reject the entire path of Christianity for the last 2 millennia.. as Paul is central to it.
Last edited:
Even where there are quotes, they pertain mainly to unchaste sex, and apply equally to all genders and relationships.
It's just as possible for me to go out tomorrow, and having same sex relations, be vile, base, and damage my soul. That's what a lot of people who focus in on the condemnation of homosexuality are missing. As one priest pointed out in a homily one day, the church feels it can't support homsexuality, because there is writing in the bible to state that marriage is a between a man and a woman, and only a marriage in the church should be supported and is considered chaste. But, he went on to further explain, that only explains the dogma. It puts gays in the same category as people who get married at city hall, and thus they are no moreso a scourge upon society than any friends or relatives who aren't Catholic. We don't condemn and judge them in this day and age because we know better, we have no leg to stand on to condemn and judge homosexuals.
As far as I can read, the passages shared by coldsteam for example, discuss sexual promiscuity and debauchery. Most people will agree that they can in fact be damaging to the soul. But my married gay friends? They're not debaucherous. There is infinitely more to their life than crude statements from redneck pigs about how they have sex.
It's just as possible for me to go out tomorrow, and having same sex relations, be vile, base, and damage my soul. That's what a lot of people who focus in on the condemnation of homosexuality are missing. As one priest pointed out in a homily one day, the church feels it can't support homsexuality, because there is writing in the bible to state that marriage is a between a man and a woman, and only a marriage in the church should be supported and is considered chaste. But, he went on to further explain, that only explains the dogma. It puts gays in the same category as people who get married at city hall, and thus they are no moreso a scourge upon society than any friends or relatives who aren't Catholic. We don't condemn and judge them in this day and age because we know better, we have no leg to stand on to condemn and judge homosexuals.
As far as I can read, the passages shared by coldsteam for example, discuss sexual promiscuity and debauchery. Most people will agree that they can in fact be damaging to the soul. But my married gay friends? They're not debaucherous. There is infinitely more to their life than crude statements from redneck pigs about how they have sex.
Last edited:
No Gerry asked a clear and concise question. He asked for Chapter and verse in another post he made.
And he is also correct that the world has enough windbag Preachers- of all faiths - and in my opinion that miss the basics and use religion to drive hatred.
Here is the OP
I'm having a problem finding citations from the New Testament where Christ condemned homosexuality. Anyone want to help me out?
Where's all the "Thee"s and "Thou"s? Sort of reads like you got a tainted version....
A whole whack of differing interpretations of Timothy 1-10
Pick your salvation. Pick who has it right - Pick what you think Jesus would say.
1 Timothy 1:10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
New International Version (©1984)
for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
New Living Translation (©2007)
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching
English Standard Version (©2001)
the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
International Standard Version (©2008)
for those involved in sexual immorality, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For fornicators, for males who lie down with males, for kidnappers of free men, for liars, for oath breakers and for all things opposed to the sound teaching
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Laws are intended for people involved in sexual sins, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for those who lie when they take an oath, and for whatever else is against accurate teachings.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave traders, for liars, for perjurers, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
American King James Version
For fornicators, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for enslavers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
American Standard Version
for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
Douay-Rheims Bible
For fornicators, for them who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and whatever other thing is contrary to sound doctrine,
Darby Bible Translation
fornicators, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers; and if any other thing is opposed to sound teaching,
English Revised Version
for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
Webster's Bible Translation
For lewd persons, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men-stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
Weymouth New Testament
fornicators, sodomites, slave-dealers, liars and false witnesses; and for whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching
World English Bible
for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
Young's Literal Translation
*****mongers, sodomites, men-stealers, liars, perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that to sound doctrine is adverse,
And that is why I call that religion Paulianity. It ignores most of Jesus' message and forms a religion around what Paul had to say about it. Paul's great revelation on the road to Damascus was that for every Christian he killed, ten more would pop up. He decided it was better to direct them than to persecute them. It was not a divine revelation, it was just good politics.
The best advice in the book that I've seen is Matthew 7: 12. And the "do" part in there includes speech as well as any other activity that has an effect on other people. Live your lives as you see fit and leave others to live theirs as they see fit. It's a pretty simple concept.
Mary means matter, matter is typed female. Matter is the womb and foundation of organic life.
Well, I was talking about the story. If we realize the story is just an alegory and metaphor, we arrive where you did. For those who believe the story has historical validity, you cannot convince them otherwise and so you must try to work with the story.