Homosexuality

[JLM]

This discussion has just gotten stupid. Homosexuality between consenting adults harms no one, pedophilia destroys innocent victims sometimes mentally and emotionally, (not to mention robs the victim of his/her childhood) for life. If a person judges homosexuality as wrong, the cops aren't going to show up at your door and force you into it!

 

[SLM]

This discussion has just gotten stupid. Homosexuality between consenting adults harms no one, pedophilia destroys innocent victims sometimes mentally and emotionally, (not to mention robs the victim of his/her childhood) for life. If a person judges homosexuality as wrong, the cops aren't going to show up at your door and force you into it!

Isn't it odd, but predictable, that when people are discussing issues of homosexuality some moron will always come along and want to talk about pedophilia?

 

[Corduroy]

This discussion has just gotten stupid. Homosexuality between consenting adults harms no one, pedophilia destroys innocent victims sometimes mentally and emotionally, (not to mention robs the victim of his/her childhood) for life. If a person judges homosexuality as wrong, the cops aren't going to show up at your door and force you into it!

But they used to, and if some people here had their way it would be illegal again.

 

[Cannuck]

This discussion has just gotten stupid. Homosexuality between consenting adults harms no one, pedophilia destroys innocent victims sometimes mentally and emotionally, (not to mention robs the victim of his/her childhood) for life. If a person judges homosexuality as wrong, the cops aren't going to show up at your door and force you into it!

At issue is not whether homosexuality is right or wrong. The OP is about Jesus' opinion on the matter.

I believe the Big Ten covers that. But you are not here for reasonable discussion. That has been shown time and again.

I know it, you know it, many know it.

Somebody interested in reasonable discussion might be interested in answering that question. I'm really not surprised you have avoided it.

You keep avoiding the question. Looks good on you.

 

[Goober]

At issue is not whether homosexuality is right or wrong. The OP is about Jesus' opinion on the matter.





You keep avoiding the question. Looks good on you.

At issue is your fixation on certain members who begin a thread, make a post and you go out of your way to play games.
Many have tried to make a reasonable response but you always twist things around. Yes it seems to be the way you are.

Fine with me. Yes I know another Red. Just a click away.

 

[JLM]

Isn't it odd, but predictable, that when people are discussing issues of homosexuality some moron will always come along and want to talk about pedophilia?

Just the morons!-

At issue is your fixation on certain members who begin a thread, make a post and you go out of your way to play games.
Many have tried to make a reasonable response but you always twist things around. Yes it seems to be the way you are.

Fine with me. Yes I know another Red. Just a click away.

How many do you have? I have about a bushel!

 

[Cannuck]

At issue is your fixation on certain members who begin a thread, make a post and you go out of your way to play games.

Nope, that's your issue. It's alot easier than answering the question I know so carry on.

 

[Goober]

Just the morons!-



How many do you have? I have about a bushel!

I do not keep track. Would be like asking how many times have I have had a mosquito land on me.

 

[JLM]

I do not keep track. Would be like asking how many times have I have had a mosquito land on me.

Oh, you're not far behind me.-

 

[Goober]

Nope, that's your issue. It's alot easier than answering the question I know so carry on.

Well the bible does talk about leading children astray

We do know that the Bible talks about sex within marriage.
Relevant Bible Teaching » Stumbling Blocks
Matthew 18:5-6 says, “And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” In Matthew 18, the disciples asked Jesus who was the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. His answer was to call a child to Himself and emphasize that those who humbled themselves as children were those who would enter heaven and be great. Furthermore, emphasizing His love and care for children, our Lord said that those who receive a child in His name receive Him. In other words, in caring for and protecting the innocent, the weak, the unlearned, the vulnerable, and the needy, we prove our love for the Lord. Part and parcel to being a Christian is looking out for the innocent and naive, doing all that we can to keep others from stumbling.

Christ has one of the most damning statements prepared for those who take advantage of the weak and innocent and lead them astray or into harm’s way. He says that it would be better for them to have millstones hung around their necks and be drowned in the sea rather than be guilty of leading innocent and weak ones astray. Leading others astray when it is in one’s power to do otherwise is beyond despicable before God. It is so contrary to His will, nature, and love to exploit or take advantage of someone in need. According to this passage, it would be better for the person to be drowned in the sea than to be given the chance to cause a vulnerable person to stumble. Of course, Christ is not saying to go out and kill everyone who might be capable of leading an innocent one astray, for the fact remains that any and all persons are capable of such evil.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It is man misusing Religion in ways that cause wars, death and massacres. That is not what Religion is. But many condemn religious beliefs and use this as an example of what is wrong with religion. It is not what is wrong with Religion, it is what is wrong with man.

I've never seen any sense in that argument. Wars, deaths, massacres, persecutions, discrimination, and whatnot, have been going on in the name of religions since their beginnings. I can see no way to define or understand a religion except in terms of the behavior of the people who practice it. If nobody's practicing it, it's become just the mythology of some defunct culture and no longer exists as a religion.

A religion is not something that exists out there in some ideal world of Platonic forms that people draw ideas out of and corrupt, religion has to be something that people actively do. I think what's wrong is what religious conviction can make people do, and further that religion is among the things that's wrong with man. What I think people are saying when they offer that argument is, "That's not MY idea of what religion is," which may be true but doesn't really deal with the issue. It's just an attempt to get religion off the hook for anything and everything nasty ever done in its name. Clearly those nasties were once widely shared ideas of what religion is, and it was religious conviction that led people to do them, you can't get it off the hook that way. The argument is way too superficial, I don't buy it.

 

[Goober]

I've never seen any sense in that argument. Wars, deaths, massacres, persecutions, discrimination, and whatnot, have been going on in the name of religions since their beginnings. I can see no way to define or understand a religion except in terms of the behavior of the people who practice it. If nobody's practicing it, it's become just the mythology of some defunct culture and no longer exists as a religion.

A religion is not something that exists out there in some ideal world of Platonic forms that people draw ideas out of and corrupt, religion has to be something that people actively do. I think what's wrong is what religious conviction can make people do, and further that religion is among the things that's wrong with man. What I think people are saying when they offer that argument is, "That's not MY idea of what religion is," which may be true but doesn't really deal with the issue. It's just an attempt to get religion off the hook for anything and everything nasty ever done in its name. Clearly those nasties were once widely shared ideas of what religion is, and it was religious conviction that led people to do them, you can't get it off the hook that way. The argument is way too superficial, I don't buy it.

Can you tell me the times that I was referring to? I am well aware of how religion was and can be corrupted by man.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Other way around, it's religion that does the corrupting.

 

[JLM]

Other way around, it's religion that does the corrupting.

Nope!

 

[Goober]

Other way around, it's religion that does the corrupting.

Really. Throughout history we have seen how man has corrupted Religion. For hundreds of years the common man was not literate, at the mercy of those with knowledge of Religion. Have lied on many occasions and used this power to corrupt the populace.

Then we had the worlds greatest invention- the printing press- knowledge was set free and became inexpensive.

The we have Martin Luther.

But you see no positives from religion. How can Religion corrupt unless corrupted by man. Same as any reasonable philosophy.

If I recall you do not think that Religion has influenced your moral beliefs. Not sure on that but you can set me straight.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

How can Religion corrupt unless corrupted by man.

Start from the idea that religion is a human invention, makes demonstrably incorrect claims about the nature of reality, and claims to have some absolute knowledge vouchsafed it by an all-knowing deity it has never been able to demonstrate really exists. And it promotes the terrible idea that belief without evidence is a good thing. From a position of absolute knowledge (which nobody actually has) it's an easy step to justify believing you have not only a right but a duty to interfere in the lives of people who don't have it. It's corrupt from the beginning, rooted in human fear and ignorance, our "first and worst" attempt, as Christopher Hitchens aptly put it, to explain the world around us.

If I recall you do not think that Religion has influenced your moral beliefs. Not sure on that but you can set me straight.

Don't think I've ever said that, but no matter, it doesn't now. I grew up in a conventionally Christian household, so the first justifications for various moral and ethical positions I heard were religiously based, but they turned out to be be superfluous and in some cases, like the main topic of this thread, wrong.

 

[Cliffy]

Well the bible does talk about leading children astray

We do know that the Bible talks about sex within marriage.
Relevant Bible Teaching » Stumbling Blocks
Matthew 18:5-6 says, “And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” In Matthew 18, the disciples asked Jesus who was the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. His answer was to call a child to Himself and emphasize that those who humbled themselves as children were those who would enter heaven and be great. Furthermore, emphasizing His love and care for children, our Lord said that those who receive a child in His name receive Him. In other words, in caring for and protecting the innocent, the weak, the unlearned, the vulnerable, and the needy, we prove our love for the Lord. Part and parcel to being a Christian is looking out for the innocent and naive, doing all that we can to keep others from stumbling.

Christ has one of the most damning statements prepared for those who take advantage of the weak and innocent and lead them astray or into harm’s way. He says that it would be better for them to have millstones hung around their necks and be drowned in the sea rather than be guilty of leading innocent and weak ones astray. Leading others astray when it is in one’s power to do otherwise is beyond despicable before God. It is so contrary to His will, nature, and love to exploit or take advantage of someone in need. According to this passage, it would be better for the person to be drowned in the sea than to be given the chance to cause a vulnerable person to stumble. Of course, Christ is not saying to go out and kill everyone who might be capable of leading an innocent one astray, for the fact remains that any and all persons are capable of such evil.

Any religion that teaches, on one hand, god's unconditional love and on the other, eternal damnation is a total dichotomy. The two concepts are irreconcilable. It leads to psychotic behaviour in some adherents. Indoctrinating children into such a religion can be and is considered by many to be leading children astray and/or child abuse. And as Dexter said, religion is man made, so it is easily manipulated by man to justify any and all actions, both loving and hateful.
There really are only two passages that I find of any value in the Bible; a) judge not least ye shall be judged and b) we are all children of god. The rest I threw away a long time ago.

 

[Cannuck]

Isn't it odd, but predictable, that when people are discussing issues of homosexuality some moron will always come along and want to talk about pedophilia?

It's very easy to call somebody a moron just because the question posed is difficult or uncomfortable. Clearly you are hung up on pedophilia so let's use animal torture instead. Can somebody point to any comments by Jesus that torturing animals is not OK?

Well the bible does talk about leading children astray

Nope, sorry....Gerry wants Jesus quotes. What you have tried to do is what IBM tried to do and it wasn't acceptable to Gerry when IBM did it so I doubt it would be acceptable to Gerry when you do it (unless Gerry is a hypocrite)

 

[gerryh]

Read through Romans 1. That is by Paul, who received the message directly from Christ, in a blinding revelation on the road to Damacus.. on which he was travelling to persecute Christians.
This is the relevant passage.. but its worth reading the whole text for the context.



Timothy 1:10 is the passage where he describes homosexuality as an abomination.

Of course you could reject Paul as some psychotic prone to hallucinations and hysteria.. but then you'd have to reject the entire path of Christianity for the last 2 millennia.. as Paul is central to it.

I've asked for quotes by our Lord Jesus Christ. No one has been able to do that, as I already knew they couldn't.

Paul is merely a man. I'm more interested in what Jesus Christ brought to us. Man has been notorious for misinterpreting or putting his own slant on things. In my eyes, too much of Paul's teachings are in direct opposition to what our Lord Jesus Christ taught concerning a loving and forgiving Father. Christ brought a NEW and everlasting covenant to mankind, and yet, Paul is stuck on the old covenant with constant referrals to OT jewish laws. Not God's laws, but man's laws.

Jesus made it clear that the 10 commandments were brought forward, and in fact he expanded on them, but that was it from the previous covenant made with man by God. I reiterate, our Lord Jesus Christ made it perfectly clear during the last supper that he brought a NEW and ever lasting covenant.

People, like Paul of Tsarsis, cloud the issue tremendously by constantly bringing up OT laws. Laws that, for many, are contradictory to Christs teachings of love and forgiveness.

Other way around, it's religion that does the corrupting.

To the simple and narrow minded only.

In what sense? I'm asking if Jesus said anything against pedophilia. This thread asks if Jesus said anything against homosexuality so, I guess somebody could assume there is a comparison being made. As to the morality of either, you would have to ask those that take their moral direction based on what Jesus did or didn't purportedly say on the issue.

Once again, you prove that all you can do is troll. Go troll somewhere else. Not interested in your juvenile bullshyte.

 

[JLM]

I've asked for quotes by our Lord Jesus Christ. No one has been able to do that, as I already knew they couldn't.



Once again, you prove that all you can do is troll. Go troll somewhere else. Not interested in your juvenile bullshyte.

I think you have a pretty good understanding of the subject, and I doubt if you are going to get much to enlighten you further, I for one am in agreement with what you state. On another issue that has crept in here, I've found during my life that when a person with an I.Q. of 4 or above gets advice from five or six others on shortcomings in his/her behaviour they take a close look at themselves and give some thought in changing their ways as opposed to continue acting like a buffoon.

"Can somebody point to any comments by Jesus that torturing animals is not OK?"- That is about the stupidest comment today or more likely this month. Why would Jesus comment on an issue like that? Anyway it's covered in the Old Testament- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"- others including all life forms that have feeling.

Other way around, it's religion that does the corrupting.

Religion doesn't DO anything. It's merely a code of ethics and behaviour that's laid out as a guide.