Hamas attacks Israel

[Ron in Regina]

Yeah…this isn’t gonna happen tonight & I’ll have to come back to this.

Ok, time is limited, but I’ve got a little snippet of time here. Israel is far from the colonial power it is being accused of being since 1967. I know that’s the current narrative.

Yes, it’s a shitty situation, in an almost constant rolling series of wars & disputes, & it’ll probably never end until Israel ceases to exist. Both the Israelis & Palestinians have claims to the same chunks of ground, & they’re either going to have to play nice with each other, or shit’s gonna hit the fan further & to a larger extent than we’ve seen so far in the last 75-ish years.

Israel exited Gaza in 2005, & what did it repeatedly get them? I don’t see Israel ever completely voluntarily exiting what’s currently called the West Bank, so that’s something they’ll (Israel & a future Palestine, if that ever happens) both have to sort out with mutually agreed upon land swaps, etc…

I see what is currently called the “West Bank” as being a illegally occupied by Israel, but other than myself, I don’t think anybody else here has mentioned the fact that Jordan did the same thing previous to Israel (1948-1967) taking that same chunk of land from Jordan (not Palestine) in mid-1967.

When Jordan annexed Judea & Samaria….who did they annex it from?

Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Whom did Israel declare its independence from in 1948 (?) which in turn lead to five neighbouring Arab armies to invade Israel?

Anyway, that’s my window and time and I’ve got to go.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I'm a little more optimistic than you are. Of the Three Big Problems of my adulthood; Israel, Ireland, and South Africa, two have been resolved at least to the point of no organized fighting. SA did it by ending apartheid and establishing the Truth & Reconciliation Commission. Made a whole new country. Ireland did it by the Brits quitting playing footsie with the NI loyalists and cracking down on them, while Ireland gave up on "Free and United." Still divided, far from perfect, but not murdering each other and feeling good about it anymore.

In both cases, people decided they'd rather be alive and rich than dead and. . . dead. We have reason to hope that the Middle East can go the same way.

 

[petros]

Ok, time is limited, but I’ve got a little snippet of time here. Israel is far from the colonial power it is being accused of being since 1967. I know that’s the current narrative.

Yes, it’s a shitty situation, in an almost constant rolling series of wars & disputes, & it’ll probably never end until Israel ceases to exist. Both the Israelis & Palestinians have claims to the same chunks of ground, & they’re either going to have to play nice with each other, or shit’s gonna hit the fan further & to a larger extent than we’ve seen so far in the last 75-ish years.

Israel exited Gaza in 2005, & what did it repeatedly get them? I don’t see Israel ever completely voluntarily exiting what’s currently called the West Bank, so that’s something they’ll (Israel & a future Palestine, if that ever happens) both have to sort out with mutually agreed upon land swaps, etc…

I see what is currently called the “West Bank” as being a illegally occupied by Israel, but other than myself, I don’t think anybody else here has mentioned the fact that Jordan did the same thing previous to Israel (1948-1967) taking that same chunk of land from Jordan (not Palestine) in mid-1967.

When Jordan annexed Judea & Samaria….who did they annex it from?

Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Whom did Israel declare its independence from in 1948 (?) which in turn lead to five neighbouring Arab armies to invade Israel?

Anyway, that’s my window and time and I’ve got to go.

It's 2024 Ron. Illegal means illegal even in 1967 or 1948 or 70AD. PERIOD! As a secular Christian you're being used, lied to and emotionally manipulated.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

It's 2024 Ron. Illegal means illegal even in 1967 or 1948 or 70AD. PERIOD! As a secular Christian you're being used, lied to and emotionally manipulated.

In 1948 it was illegal for a Black person to sit at a Whites-only counter in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

Not that it matters much. "Illegal" is a concept that only wishful thinkers and idiots would apply to international relations. Without a neutral decision-maker with authority to enforce its decisions, there is no law.

 

[55Mercury]

Like law on the high seas, internationally watered down.
Might is right.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Like law on the high seas, internationally watered down.
Might is right.

From the mouths of. . . guns.

 

[petros]

In 1948 it was illegal for a Black person to sit at a Whites-only counter in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

Not that it matters much. "Illegal" is a concept that only wishful thinkers and idiots would apply to international relations. Without a neutral decision-maker with authority to enforce its decisions, there is no law.

From the mouths of. . . guns.

You need an update.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) has jurisdiction over the West Bank and other territories occupied by Israel since 1967:
ICC investigation

In 2021, the ICC opened a formal investigation into alleged war crimes in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem since June 2014. The ICC has the authority to prosecute those accused of war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity.

ICC jurisdiction
The ICC Pre-Trial Chamber I ruled in February 2021 that the ICC has jurisdiction over the territories. The court's decision rejected Israel's argument to the contrary.

ICC victims
The ICC allows victims to participate in judicial proceedings and receive reparations if convicted. Victims can communicate with the ICC's Office of the Prosecutor to share information about alleged crimes.

The ICC's jurisdiction is based on the Rome Statute, the ICC's founding treaty. The ICC is the first permanent international criminal court.
Other developments related to the occupation of the West Bank include:

In July 2024, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem is unlawful. The ICJ also ruled that Israel's settlement policy amounts to annexation.

The UN Commission says that international law obligates the UN, member states, and international organizations to end Israel's unlawful presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

How many battalions does the ICC have?

 

[petros]

How many battalions does the ICC have?

All of them cuz it's illegal. Same goes for attacking UNFIL and restricting UN aid.