GOLDSTEIN: Canada’s divider-in-chief is Trudeau, not Poilievre

Serryah

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Funny how "unity" means "everybody agrees with us," regardless of who's calling for it.

I think the people that pay attention to Trudeau the most are those that dislike him.

The rest of us who think he's either mediocre or just an idiot don't pay attention overmuch to every single detail.
 

The_Foxer

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Funny how "unity" means "everybody agrees with us," regardless of who's calling for it.
For us it usually just means 'hey, we're not ACTUALLY thinking about killing each other" :) It's a foregone conclusion that many aren't going to agree - quebec is never going to 'agree' with english canada for example. But - if everyone is getting left alone and not demanding something from someone else generally we're happy to let others be and do our own thing

Unity was highest under harper's term. That's not because harper was some great unifier or everyone 'agreed' with him by any means. He just had a solid policy of staying the hell out of people's lives and it worked. Trudeau has a bad habit of trying to weaponize one group against another.
 

The_Foxer

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I think the people that pay attention to Trudeau the most are those that dislike him.

The rest of us who think he's either mediocre or just an idiot don't pay attention overmuch to every single detail.
I don't think it's the details that are sinking him in that specific regard. Everyone knows his stance on vaccine mandates was divisive. Everyone's heard how he called the vax hesitant "wastes of space' and that we 'shouldn't tolerate' them and racists etc. Those and the others like them are pretty 'big ticket' items. And if asked what he's done to bring people together most can't think of anything.

I mean, if we were to accept what you're saying it would mean that 61 percent of people actively dislike him and pay attention to the details. Seems high to me.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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For us it usually just means 'hey, we're not ACTUALLY thinking about killing each other" :) It's a foregone conclusion that many aren't going to agree - quebec is never going to 'agree' with english canada for example. But - if everyone is getting left alone and not demanding something from someone else generally we're happy to let others be and do our own thing

Unity was highest under harper's term. That's not because harper was some great unifier or everyone 'agreed' with him by any means. He just had a solid policy of staying the hell out of people's lives and it worked. Trudeau has a bad habit of trying to weaponize one group against another.
I always liked Harper. He seemed to understand what being a "public servant" in an individualistic democracy was about.
 

The_Foxer

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I always liked Harper. He seemed to understand what being a "public servant" in an individualistic democracy was about.
well he had his moments of course but generally speaking he was very much a no nonsense kind of guy. "So... run the place, pay the workers, make a fertile ground for business to grow and not get invaded by other countries? Is that the job? Fine - get out of my office i've got work". "But SIR! Quebec is passing a law that's upsetting all the other provinces!! What do we do?!?!" "I don't run quebec. Shut the door on your way out. "
 
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pgs

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well he had his moments of course but generally speaking he was very much a no nonsense kind of guy. "So... run the place, pay the workers, make a fertile ground for business to grow and not get invaded by other countries? Is that the job? Fine - get out of my office i've got work". "But SIR! Quebec is passing a law that's upsetting all the other provinces!! What do we do?!?!" "I don't run quebec. Shut the door on your way out. "
Quebec was relatively quite during the Harper years .
 

The_Foxer

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Quebec was relatively quite during the Harper years .
That tends to happen when you leave them alone :) But they had their moments. The whole 'we'll keep the gun registry' thing, and some other issues but by and large he was just "ok, do what you want" and they didn't feel the need to flex. The bloc all but vanished under harper.
 

pgs

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What if anything could or would unite Canadians?
IMO there is nothing , but that is me , I believe Canada is irreparably broken and is destined to break apart , it is just a matter of when and what the cause will be .
 

The_Foxer

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Common sense policies which usually means most conservative policies. No interference by governments in our lives...
That has traditionally been true. Canadians are most united when they are left alone to live their lives
 

Decapoda

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What if anything could or would unite Canadians?
At this point it's possible it may be too far gone to salvage. Unity is emotional, it's backed up and nurtured by governing policies intended to benefit the majority of people in the "group" in as fair and equitable way as possible...in this case the people of this country. Our "leaders" have instituted the opposite policies, ones meant to hurt or destroy one regional or social group over the will and benefit of another, which has destroyed (intentionally) the emotional bond Canadians feel for each other and created anger, resentment, and loathing. The current governing party is petty, caustic, arrogant, and worst of all, hypocritical, lacking in empathy, fairness, and balance for all people in the country it's responsible for...until this changes unity in this country is unfortunately impossible.
 

Serryah

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I always liked Harper. He seemed to understand what being a "public servant" in an individualistic democracy was about.

Honestly to me Harper and Trudeau are the same, they're both idiots and neither really gives/gave a shit about Canada as a whole, rather it was more about how "hey look, I'm PM!"
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Honestly to me Harper and Trudeau are the same, they're both idiots and neither really gives/gave a shit about Canada as a whole, rather it was more about how "hey look, I'm PM!"
You know I respect you, Serryah, and I'm not going to sit here in Washington and dispute your perceptions.

Still, seems to me True Dope is a bit (for values of a bit = a lot) more aggressive in pushing his orthodoxy.
 

Dixie Cup

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Honestly to me Harper and Trudeau are the same, they're both idiots and neither really gives/gave a shit about Canada as a whole, rather it was more about how "hey look, I'm PM!"
Harper was a better Leader by far with more sensible policies. He wasn't perfect but to say that he & Trudeau are the same is idiocy! Not even close.
 

Serryah

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You know I respect you, Serryah, and I'm not going to sit here in Washington and dispute your perceptions.

Still, seems to me True Dope is a bit (for values of a bit = a lot) more aggressive in pushing his orthodoxy.

Oh I agree he is. And he's... well, an idiot. More than, and the sooner he's gone, the better we'd be, if only there was another choice possible. There isn't though and that's the worst part. But I also didn't vote and won't vote for his entitled ass again so...


But I look back at Harper who ordered that scientists not say a word about their work to anyone as a huge issue in pushing his own orthodoxy.


I also despised his closing down of Vet offices and merging them with Service Canada; IMO that was not a smart move even if it might have been 'to save money'. To me it was insulting as Vets, IMO, should have their own offices to focus on the special services they need both in and out of military service.


There's little piddly stuff I also don't agree with. Just like Trudeau.


Like I said, I think for both they were more about being PM than giving a shit about Canada.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Oh I agree he is. And he's... well, an idiot. More than, and the sooner he's gone, the better we'd be, if only there was another choice possible. There isn't though and that's the worst part. But I also didn't vote and won't vote for his entitled ass again so...


But I look back at Harper who ordered that scientists not say a word about their work to anyone as a huge issue in pushing his own orthodoxy.


I also despised his closing down of Vet offices and merging them with Service Canada; IMO that was not a smart move even if it might have been 'to save money'. To me it was insulting as Vets, IMO, should have their own offices to focus on the special services they need both in and out of military service.


There's little piddly stuff I also don't agree with. Just like Trudeau.


Like I said, I think for both they were more about being PM than giving a shit about Canada.
You could be right. Like I said, you're a lot closer to the reality, and I'd be a fool to dispute you with only a couple of moths and a used condom in my shot-locker.

And yeah, now you mention it, I recollect Harper folding the vets into the general social welfare system. At the time I thought "WTF? Bad form, old boy."

Maybe the best we can do is forget about who's in the Big Chair and make the chunk of the world around us better, to the extent we're able.
 
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Serryah

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You could be right. Like I said, you're a lot closer to the reality, and I'd be a fool to dispute you with only a couple of moths and a used condom in my shot-locker.

And yeah, now you mention it, I recollect Harper folding the vets into the general social welfare system. At the time I thought "WTF? Bad form, old boy."

Maybe the best we can do is forget about who's in the Big Chair and make the chunk of the world around us better, to the extent we're able.

Absolutely agree with your last point.