FBI Raids Former President Donald Trump’s Home

Ron in Regina

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The first is vague and not a crime, the second is you taking bad drugs and self-pity, and Nixon was pardoned by Ford.
I have no dog in the hunt of US politics. There’s been scurvy stuff by current & former Presidents (& their spouses) for a long time. Wealth & power have insulated all from any real consequences. Trump is really any different than any of the others?
 

Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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I have no dog in the hunt of US politics. There’s been scurvy stuff by current & former Presidents (& their spouses) for a long time. Wealth & power have insulated all from any real consequences. Trump is really any different than any of the others?

Closest the US has come to what this stuff with Trump is about now, was Reagan and Iran-Contra, IMO.

And still I'm not sure if it was as bad as this could be.

In the end, it's a 'wait and see'.

But I also think it might just depend on pressure from outside the US too. Like it or not, this stuff makes the US look very bad as an ally and they'll want reassurances that shit like this won't happen again. The only way to ensure that, is see Trump punished (or whoever).
 

petros

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Closest the US has come to what this stuff with Trump is about now, was Reagan and Iran-Contra, IMO.

And still I'm not sure if it was as bad as this could be.
If you look at the millions of lives destroyed by the cocaine, its pretty hard to top.

Problem is, the CIA does whatever it wants regardless of who sits in the big comfy chair.
 
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pgs

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If you look at the millions of lives destroyed by the cocaine, its pretty hard to top.

Problem is, the CIA does whatever it wants regardless of who sits in the big comfy chair.
And the FBI has been the man behind the curtain since J.Edgar Hoover .
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I have no dog in the hunt of US politics. There’s been scurvy stuff by current & former Presidents (& their spouses) for a long time. Wealth & power have insulated all from any real consequences. Trump is really any different than any of the others?
Do you understand the difference between things you disagree with, things that are ethically and morally questionable, and crimes?
 
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Serryah

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“Number one, it was all declassified.

Heard a thing that addresses this 'idea' today.

Even if he did declassify it, Trump STILL stole property of the US Government, property he was not allowed to have, cause it wasn't his.

If anything, saying he had declassified material means he admitted to a crime of Government property.

So...

The more Trump says about this, the more things come out, the more in trouble he gets himself/he finds himself in.

There is NO defense for him in any of this. None.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Heard a thing that addresses this 'idea' today.

Even if he did declassify it, Trump STILL stole property of the US Government, property he was not allowed to have, cause it wasn't his.

If anything, saying he had declassified material means he admitted to a crime of Government property.

So...

The more Trump says about this, the more things come out, the more in trouble he gets himself/he finds himself in.

There is NO defense for him in any of this. None.
Trump's lying, and so's anybody that repeats his lies.

Presidents don't get to declassify things after noon on 20 Jan.

And all Presidential records have to be handled in accordance with the PRA, classified or unclassified. Failure to do so is a crime.
 
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Ron in Regina

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Do you understand the difference between things you disagree with, things that are ethically and morally questionable, and crimes?
OK, just to get this out-of-the-way first, I think Trump was a crazy unpredictable bastard….but he was your (as in Americas) crazy unpredictable bastard. He threw so much shit at the wall just to see what would stick….& then denied throwing shit at the wall….until he was caught bragging about throwing shit at the wall, then he would deny that he was ever caught…😁

Going forward, morally and ethically questionable things like perjury or obstruction of justice or abuse of power? All of those things are pardonable legally if not morally or ethically. That I understand.

If those that decide your fate are a “Jury of your Peers” or wish to set a precedent for themselves, it’s amazing what is forgivable legally, and sometimes morally and ethically. Though Trump is a crazy unpredictable bastard, he won’t be the last republican president, and being a non-drinker and non-smoker….he will probably live long enough to be acquitted of everything he’s accused of, or has yet to be accused of. There is a pattern with respect to these things and American Presidents.

You note that Nixon was pardoned by Ford. Very True. Nixon did some very questionable things morally and ethically, but legally….he was pardoned… some of his stuff sure sounded like crimes, but nothing punishable by jail time.

Bill Clinton “did not have sex with that woman“ and even with the blue dress in need of dry cleaning, he was acquitted of obstruction of justice and his perjury. It’s not like he dropped bombs on Hiroshima or Nagasaki, or played fast and loose with drone strikes, etc….and the sexual harassment from back in his Arkansas days (cough, Linda Tripp) was just boys being boys. Sexual harassment or assault sure sounds like a crime, but Bill Clinton isn’t the first & from the smoke around old hair sniffer he’s not the last.

Someone else brought up Ronald Reagan, and that’s some crazy shit all by itself. Funding black covert wars in Central and South America, with arms purchased with cocaine sales on the streets of America, all the while professing to be in a war against drugs? Was he a criminal or a patriot? Did he serve any jail time as either a drug dealer or a gun runner (‘cuz those sort’a sound like crimes, if not morally or ethically questionable)?

Speaking of things that sound like crimes (whether or not they are), did they ever find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Lots of folks went over there looking for them (almost like an invasion) & they even managed to find Saddam Hussein in a hole in the ground, but I don’t think he was sitting on a nuke. George W commit a crime? Depends who you talk to I guess. 911 was a pretty shitty thing and nobody will argue that (nobody sane or non-Muslim anyway), but Iraq? Didn’t he invade the wrong country? Maybe he was not a cartographer but Saudi Arabia was somewhat north of Iraq.

Then The Kennedys. Kind of a string of questionable ethical and moral things like pregnant women just kind of going away in the holes in the ground. Politically expedient, but punishable legal crimes? Hilary and her extreme string of luck with respect to political enemies committing suicide? Probably not a crime but definitely curious statistically. Isn’t it somewhere over 50 so far (not counting Epstein of course because he hung himself, but at least he didn’t commit suicide by shooting himself in The back of the head twice). 🤫

Where I’m going with the above is that sometimes the lines are blurred between what is a crime, or a punishable crime, and what is morally and ethically questionable, and the things we just don’t like. Even with the shades of gray I think I’ve got a bit of a grasp on things though, but I’m always open to some guidance if I steer too far one way or the other.

(Coming full circle with my own personal bias…. as to what I don’t like, what is morally and ethically questionable, and what is a crime (or a punishable crime at least), Canada has its own share of the equivalents of the above examples of US Presidents questionable deeds from John A McDonald right to our current sitting PM)
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Trump's lying, and so's anybody that repeats his lies.

Presidents don't get to declassify things after noon on 20 Jan.

And all Presidential records have to be handled in accordance with the PRA, classified or unclassified. Failure to do so is a crime.
Trumps a politician. Of course he’s a liar!! Presidents do get to exonerate others as their final acts in the big chair though. 😉

If Trump is ever “convicted” of a crime it will be of ‘felony stupidity & ego’ for getting caught until he is acquitted or pardoned without ever seeing the inside of a cell. Cynical I know but I’m willing to bet a nickel (my max bet). That would be a Canadian five cent piece (so about four cents American).
 

petros

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Maybe he has/had dirt on someone who fears being exposed. If that person exists theyd have to have inside knowledge of what he had/has and that it was in florida and not one of his other properties.

What if they didnt find what they were looking for? How far are they willing to go to find it?
 

petros

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Trumps a politician. Of course he’s a liar!! Presidents do get to exonerate others as their final acts in the big chair though. 😉

If Trump is ever “convicted” of a crime it will be of ‘felony stupidity & ego’ for getting caught until he is acquitted or pardoned without ever seeing the inside of a cell. Cynical I know but I’m willing to bet a nickel (my max bet). That would be a Canadian five cent piece (so about four cents American).
To be the "most powerful person in the world" you gotta piss in a lot of bowls of Corn Pops on the way to get there.
 

mentalfloss

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Tecumsehsbones

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Trumps a politician. Of course he’s a liar!! Presidents do get to exonerate others as their final acts in the big chair though. 😉

If Trump is ever “convicted” of a crime it will be of ‘felony stupidity & ego’ for getting caught until he is acquitted or pardoned without ever seeing the inside of a cell. Cynical I know but I’m willing to bet a nickel (my max bet). That would be a Canadian five cent piece (so about four cents American).
I don't care what he says. I care what he does. Especially when what he does is a crime.

I understand that he's a symbol. And I understand exactly what he's a symbol of (and how little he actually is what he claims to represent).

One thing I'll say is, with Trump what ya see is what ya get. It's all about the clarity of your vision.
 

Taxslave2

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Maybe he has/had dirt on someone who fears being exposed. If that person exists theyd have to have inside knowledge of what he had/has and that it was in florida and not one of his other properties.

What if they didnt find what they were looking for? How far are they willing to go to find it?
What they are looking for will show up where they planted it when the time is right. Now all they are doing is acting for the party faithful.
 

DaSleeper

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I don't care what he says. I care what he does. Especially when what he does is a crime.

I understand that he's a symbol. And I understand exactly what he's a symbol of (and how little he actually is what he claims to represent).

One thing I'll say is, with Trump what ya see is what ya get. It's all about the clarity of your vision.
That would mean that he's not a hypocrite like most politicians!!!
 

Dixie Cup

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That is why all policy decisions come from the PMO

I won't say it can 'never' happen... but the likelihood of ANYONE going dictator in Canada is less than likely than most things, because of how our system is set up.

So yeah, I do.
Well, I think it can be (more) easily done in Canada than in the U.S. They have safe guards - we don't. For example, the current government is at a distinct disadvantage because they're in a minority. But all it takes is one party to support them in all ways and ta da - you have an authoritarian government who can do anything they want (unless of course the other party disapproves). Unfortunately, the "other party" doesn't seem to mind what policies are put in place as they're supporting the minority government. So, what can we, the people, do? Absolutely NOTHING until another election is called which is 3 years away and which means that the damage is done and there is nothing we can do to improve on things that won't take another decade or two to fix.

So, we are at greater risk for having an authoritarian government (which we now have) than ever before AND, if they chose not to call an election, what happens then? Will our police come out to support us? Will our military come out to support us? (When I say "us" I mean the Canadian population). Who can or would we turn to that will ensure our Rights are at the forefront?

We don't have "recall" we don't have "impeachment" - how would we deal with this situation? What if Trudeau refuses to call an election in 2023? (I'm not saying he wouldn't but as an exercise, what would we be able to do?) What were the convoy people able to do? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING because of government over-reach so if it happened to you or me or your neighbor, we would be unable to do a damn thing! THAT IS SCAREY because Trudeau doesn't seem to mind & has absolutely no connection to our country otherwise he'd ignore the WEF, WHO and the UN. But he doesn't have our best interests at heart, only his own. He is a narcissist at heart & couldn't give a bloody damn about any of us!!

So to say it "could never happen" is being disingenuous because it could. All it takes is apathetic people not paying attention to what is happening & then realizing, too late, that they should have been doing exactly that - paying attention to what our political morons are doing. BTW that is in all parties! Steven Harper, where are you???
 

Dixie Cup

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Actually those with the authority to have seen it, since it appears it was confidential stuff.

And Trump has had since Spring to turn this shit over, and didn't.

I know you think he can do no wrong and he's a Saint (a better saint than Obama, the best Saint, Nobody's ever been a Saint like him!) but if someone close to him turned over proof to get a warrant and they pulled stuff out, then obviously there IS an issue going on.
Unfortunately you 've gotten the wrong information. Perhaps upon more research you'll find that the FBI always had access to "said information" but didn't take it back in June. They had access to it anytime they wanted but decided to do a PR instead making it SOUND like Trump had something to hide. But he's not a stupid man. There is no way on earth that he would have kept something he wasn't entitled to keep. He'd be crazy considering all the B.S. he's had to encounter since becoming President. The stupid ones are the Democrats who refuse to give up even after finding absolutely NOTHING on Trump that would be illegal. Trump knows what he's up against. But the Dems feel that they're more "informed" when in fact they're simply "hoping" to get "something" on him. He's not that stupid nor will they find anything. They haven't yet and most likely won't and it's killing them!!!!