Essential features of the apostle of God
- Thread starter eanassir
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Ismael, the older son of Abraham, resided in Mecca and reproduced a great nation, as is it written in the Book of Genesis.
Ismael begot twelve patriarchs the last one of them was Mohammed.
Abraham together with his son Ismael built the Kaaba: the House of God at Mecca.
Abraham prayed God to make out of Ismael's progeny a nation: Muslims submitting to God alone.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflict/index.htm#another_lie
Ismael begot twelve patriarchs the last one of them was Mohammed.
Abraham together with his son Ismael built the Kaaba: the House of God at Mecca.
Abraham prayed God to make out of Ismael's progeny a nation: Muslims submitting to God alone.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflict/index.htm#another_lie
Abraham was from Ur in Iraq.
He then migrated to the land of Kanaan: Jordan.
He begot Ismael and Abraham took him with his mother Agar to stay at Mecca, and Ismael is the grandfather of the Arab of Mecca and Hijaz.
Then he begot Isaac the father of Jacob who was surnamed Israel.
Ibrahim was a polytheistic Brahman that lived in Mesopotamian aka Iraq (in the Ur area) about 1900 BCE.
Abraham - Who Was He? / Viewzone
Abraham - Who Was He? / Viewzone
Oh good grief - again with the Quran - do you have ANY original thoughts? Also, Islam might say that are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael, but saying it doesn't make it so.
And then there was a previous post that contained the following,
"Abraham had his older son Ismael --> the grandfather of Mohammed.
And his younger son Isaac --> the father of Jacob surnamed Israel.
OK - Jacob's surname wasn't Israel. According to Berei**** (that's the 1st book of the Bible to you), Jacob wrestled with G-d and wouldn't let go.until he received G-d's blessing. Her was blessed and G-d also changed his name from Jacob to Israel, because he 'struggled with G-d'. It wasn't a surname. Momentous events usually gave way to new names. Abram became Abraham, Sarai became Sarah.
So Abraham was the father of the Isralietes and the father of Mohammed's people.
Moreover, Prophet Mohammed and the belivers with him were more worthy to be the followers of Abraham because they worshipped God alone and broke the idols and never then worshipped any idol afterwards, and moreover they obeyed their prophet"
Look as far as i'm concerned, rather than look to his own culture for a belief system, your Prophet chose to take from others. Yes, throughout time different cultures have absorbed others and melded their beliefs. The Aryans did that with the indigenous cultures of India - giving rise to the Hindu religion. But Islam? They took Judaism and decided to put a spin on it that is quite frankly fantastical. Come on - until the Prophet came along, there were NO legends or myths floating around the Arabian Peninsula regarding Abraham. They only started with the Prophet.
you seem to think that the world doesn't understand the beauty of Islam. I put a challenge to you. Rather than rely on some Islamic interpretation of Judaism, why don't you actually LEARN about the Jewish faith by reading Maimonides,or other scholars - hey! why not read something like 'Essential Judaism' by George Robinson. you might actually learn something.:read2:
Oh good grief - every time I read this I find something new::While Jews disobeyed their prophet Moses, and worshipped the gold calf idol made for them by the Samaritan, then the two calf statues made for them by Jeroboam son of Nabat, in addition to worshipping Astaroth, Baal and the star Sirius."
HUH!?!
First - the golden calf thing. SAMARITAN - are you SERIOUS!?! I mean really! In the biblical scheme of things, the evil Samaritans hadn't been invented yet! Mind you, the Prophet would have known about the antipathy between the Samaritan Jewish sect and the mainstream Jewish faith because he was a traveling salesman.
More worthy - by whose standards? Your earthly ones? Look - G-d who is as we all know omnipotent and all knowing - kew that he'd glommed onto a stiff necked people who screwed up big time - but still did the right thing and tried again. Get the hint? your supreme diety isn't looking for perfection, she's looking for people that are always making mistakes and always trying to make it right.
Your idea of G-d, Allah? Pretty sad. I WILL SMOTE ALL THOSE WHO ACTUALLY THINK.
As I've said before, if that's your Islam, I'll gladly accept (if it comes to that) Djimitude.
So - can you frame a reply without cutting and pasting from the online Quran? doubt it, but hey - prove this lowly woman wrong.
It really is interesting,but I still think that the proto-Aryan thingie is more probable. Just think - a group of people migrate from the north. They split in 2 directions, one group towards what we now call Iran, the other towards what we now call India. Both groups added to and embraced the beliefs of the areas they moved in to.
Abram grew up in an area that worshiped an early form of Zoroastrianism. While the two faiths (Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) may be similar, they differ due to the indigenous beliefs they absorbed when they moved in.
Similarities between Judaism and Hinduism? Of course - Hinduism and Zoroastrianism have the same root - why wouldn't there be similarities?
Abram (Abraham) grew up in a world that had no state mandated religion. they probably had all the gods and goddesses that predated Zoroastrianism, but there was also the Zoroastrian religion as well. Unlike Islam and Christianity, back then the worship of numerous gods/goddesses was acceptable - no matter what the faith of the rulers.
Might have been a brutal age, but that, at least, was civilized (unlike Einasser's 'Believe in me or y'all will be smoted' god!)
''Abraham was the father of the Isralietes and the father of Mohammed's people.''
I am aware of that. My reply was to the ideal that Abraham was a Jew. He couldn't have been as the Judean tribe started three generations after him. And it is a tribe, not a religion.
I am aware of that. My reply was to the ideal that Abraham was a Jew. He couldn't have been as the Judean tribe started three generations after him. And it is a tribe, not a religion.
Meh - In the sense that he was the father, guess he was the first Jew. People identify Jews with the old testament, the 10 commandments, yaydayadayada. Israelites, Samaritans, Judah? doesn't amount to a hill of chickpeas - it's just pilpul.
Yes, Abram was THE JEW - the first - the father. He didn't start a religion like Mohammed did, he started a lifestyle, a way of living.He led a group of people into a direction that was totally alien to the one that they lived in. Oh ... Guess he did start a religion.
Mohammed? He was a traveling salesman who listened to the tales and legends of other people and then tailored them to something he could sell. And if he couldn't sell it? He forced it. 'Believe' or be killed/enslaved/taxed. Yup. Makes me want to convert.OMG!!! I'm rambling!! Sorry - it's later than I thought and i have to get to bed!:lol:
I understand what you mean, but back then, tribe - belief - they were probably more entwined than today.
Generations before, you could have said 'England' and assumed everyone for the most part in England would be Anglican.
Back during the time of 'Genesis'? The tribe of the Patriarch Abraham would have followed him when it came to everything - including the gods that were worshiped. And if that tribe evolved into the Jews/Israelis? That's the way it was done.So yes, he was the father of the Israelites, and as Islam is the child of Judaism, spiritually, Abraham is the father of Islam.
Judaism is related to the revealing of the Torah to Moses, some hundred years after Abraham.
The Disagreement of the
The Disagreement of the
This is one of the inventions of Ezra in his Torah which he wrote following their retrun from the cpativity of Babylon.
The priest Ezra wrote the Torah and ommitted many things and altered many others.
The Disagreement of the
The meaning of the word "Jew"
The word يهودي i.e. Jew, in the Quran is derived from the word هُدْنَا which means: We returned repentant to You.
[The interpretation is according to the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible, Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly:]
As in the Quran 7: 156
[The interpretation is according to the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible, Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly:]
As in the Quran 7: 156
وَاكْتُبْ لَنَا فِي هَذِهِ الدُّنْيَا حَسَنَةً وَفِي الآخِرَةِ إِنَّا هُدْنَا إِلَيْكَ
The explanation:
([Moses prayed God:]
"And ordain for us in this Worldly [life] good [favor], and in the afterlife [a good life]; for we have repented to You.")
([Moses prayed God:]
"And ordain for us in this Worldly [life] good [favor], and in the afterlife [a good life]; for we have repented to You.")
For more information, see this article:
<http://www.quranicstudies.com/louay-fatoohi/prophet-moses/the-meaning-of-jew-in-the-quran-and-the-old-testament-bible.html>
<http://www.quranicstudies.com/louay-fatoohi/prophet-moses/the-meaning-of-jew-in-the-quran-and-the-old-testament-bible.html>
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The meaning of the word "Islam"
It means: to submit to God alone.
And the word "Muslim" literally means: one who submits himself to God and complies with His commands.
So accordingly, all the prophets and apostles are Muslims: submitting themselves to God alone without associate and complying with His commands.
As in the Quran 22: 34
And the word "Muslim" literally means: one who submits himself to God and complies with His commands.
So accordingly, all the prophets and apostles are Muslims: submitting themselves to God alone without associate and complying with His commands.
As in the Quran 22: 34
فَإِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَلَهُ أَسْلِمُوا وَبَشِّرِ الْمُخْبِتِينَ
The explanation:
(Your God is One God, so submit [yourselves] to Him [and be Muslims], and give the glad tidings to those who trust [in God] with sure faith.)
<http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflict/index.htm#ten_commandment_of_Quran>
(Your God is One God, so submit [yourselves] to Him [and be Muslims], and give the glad tidings to those who trust [in God] with sure faith.)
<http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflict/index.htm#ten_commandment_of_Quran>
As a complement to my reply #136 on this page, I say:
How can anyman wrestle with God Almighty, the Creator of the entire universe with its planets, stars and galaxies!?
This notion and the notion that Adam was like God in image has lead to serious error in thier conception about God Who in fact is Unique and nothing is like Him.
This alone indicates obviously that Ezra invented this story, and distorted the original Torah of God.
How can anyman wrestle with God Almighty, the Creator of the entire universe with its planets, stars and galaxies!?
This notion and the notion that Adam was like God in image has lead to serious error in thier conception about God Who in fact is Unique and nothing is like Him.
This alone indicates obviously that Ezra invented this story, and distorted the original Torah of God.
<http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflict/index.htm#the_mistake_in_the_torah_of_ezra>
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