Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes

[Goober]

I guess that my incredulity has to do with your obsession with Iran. You keep posting innuendo as fact. What makes you different from JBeee other than the countries you are obsessed with? There is no proof Iran is developing nuclear weapons and yet you keep making that accusation. It makes it hard to take you seriously. People have posted video evidence of war crimes by the US and Israel and for that you have accused them of hating those countries but you can't even post video evidence of your accusations of Iran. Who really is hateful? Sounds like pointing a finger to divert attention from yourself.

Sad to say - but when the IAEA agreed with your opinion - you would all line up like lemmings and state - Told ya

Well now the IAEA that many have often looked upon as the fountain of fact has and is arriving at a different conclusion.

IAEA says gets info on possible Iran military work | Reuters

Reuters) - The U.N. atomic watchdog has received new information regarding allegations that Iran may be seeking to develop a nuclear-armed missile, the agency said in a report voicing deepening concern about the issue.

The confidential document signaled the U.N. body's growing frustration at what it sees as Iran's lack of cooperation with a long-running investigation into its disputed nuclear program.

It also made clear Iran's determination to press ahead with sensitive atomic activity despite four rounds of U.N. sanctions since 2006, saying the country had informed the IAEA it would soon start operating a second uranium enrichment plant.


Please note that I have never been to China but I am aware that in Tianmen Square thousands either in the square or those later arrested were sentenced to long prison terms or executed. But according to your train of derailed thought, a person has to be on site to know with certainty something occurred.

 

[lone wolf]

I'm sure there is a bill of sale lying around the Pentagon somewhere.

No need for a bill of sale:

Nuclear Weapons - Israel

Probably a lot more to go on than a more recent WMD witch hunt....

 

[ironsides]

IRAN PROTEST TURN DEADLY (JUNE 22) SHOOTING | NowPublic Video Archives

 

[Colpy]

I'm sure there is a bill of sale lying around the Pentagon somewhere.

I doubt that!

Hardly necessary in a country with by far the most Nobel Prize winners in science (by capita) on earth.......

''Iranian government officials denied the report, the semi-official Fars news agency said.''

Allegations needs to be proven in a court of law, just in case you have forgotten Goofer, err, Goober. If you are so convinced that the allegations have any truth to them, why not present your 'evidence' before the Hague?

Excuse me?

The International Court is a VERY bad joke. It is completely irrelevant, and even if it had the wherewithal to collect evidence, question witnesses, investigate anywhere anytime (which it most certainly does not)....it would come to the conclusion Iran is not on a WMD path about the time a mushroom cloud appeared over Tel Aviv. It is completely political.

It is international relations....there IS NO COURT< NO LAWYERS< NO JUSTICE< NO FAIR PLAY!

.....something the Jews learned 1933-45. Which is why they have nukes.

It is a game of survival......

And you are heading for a Darwin Award.

OMG!

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm sure there is a bill of sale lying around the Pentagon somewhere.

Actually several countries were involved. France, the US, the UK and maybe Russia.

I doubt any President or PM gave approval to transfer knowledge and technology. More likely the right people were spied on, bribed and blackmailed. Throw a couple of Nobel Laureates at the problem, and I doubt it would take more than a few years to build a nuke.

Sad to say - but when the IAEA agreed with your opinion - you would all line up like lemmings and state - Told ya

Well now the IAEA that many have often looked upon as the fountain of fact has and is arriving at a different conclusion.

IAEA says gets info on possible Iran military work | Reuters

Reuters) - The U.N. atomic watchdog has received new information regarding allegations that Iran may be seeking to develop a nuclear-armed missile, the agency said in a report voicing deepening concern about the issue.

The confidential document signaled the U.N. body's growing frustration at what it sees as Iran's lack of cooperation with a long-running investigation into its disputed nuclear program.

It also made clear Iran's determination to press ahead with sensitive atomic activity despite four rounds of U.N. sanctions since 2006, saying the country had informed the IAEA it would soon start operating a second uranium enrichment plant.


Please note that I have never been to China but I am aware that in Tianmen Square thousands either in the square or those later arrested were sentenced to long prison terms or executed. But according to your train of derailed thought, a person has to be on site to know with certainty something occurred.

The IAEA must not require Iran prove negatives.

Assume for a minute that in theory, hypothetically, I know its a stretch, assume that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon program. OK, how would Iran prove they don't have a nuclear weapon program? No proof exists which would definitely leave ZERO chance of doubt that Iran doesn't have an active nuclear weapon program??? Not finding a nuclear weapon program could mean it exists and you haven't found it or that it doesn't exists. Not finding anything proves nothing.

Proving a negative is a logical impossibility because it can never be done to an absolute 0% probability.

This is the same logic trap which led to the Iraq war. Iraq also couldn't prove they didn't have any WMDs, so they were invaded.

I have to question if the IAEA has been compromised like UNSCOM:

Spying in Iraq: From Fact to Allegation
FAIR ACTION ALERT: Spying in Iraq: From Fact to Allegation

Punitive action must not be based on proving a negative.

The world powers must resist the temptation to tamper with the IAEA.

The current approach to Iran is almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. If Iran is going to be punished like they possess nukes regardless of whether they have nukes or not, then what is their motivation not to develop nukes???

Any news source which doesn't consider this logic and creates a perception that Iran is a known nuclear weapon threat must be considered unreliable.

 

[Goober]

Actually several countries were involved. France, the US, the UK and maybe Russia.

I doubt any President or PM gave approval to transfer knowledge and technology. More likely the right people were spied on, bribed and blackmailed. Throw a couple of Nobel Laureates at the problem, and I doubt it would take more than a few years to build a nuke.



The IAEA must not require Iran prove negatives.

Assume for a minute that in theory, hypothetically, I know its a stretch, assume that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon program. OK, how would Iran prove they don't have a nuclear weapon program? No proof exists which would definitely leave ZERO chance of doubt that Iran doesn't have an active nuclear weapon program??? Not finding a nuclear weapon program could mean it exists and you haven't found it or that it doesn't exists. Not finding anything proves nothing.

Proving a negative is a logical impossibility because it can never be done to an absolute 0% probability.

This is the same logic trap which led to the Iraq war. Iraq also couldn't prove they didn't have any WMDs, so they were invaded.

I have to question if the IAEA has been compromised like UNSCOM:

Spying in Iraq: From Fact to Allegation
FAIR ACTION ALERT: Spying in Iraq: From Fact to Allegation

Punitive action must not be based on proving a negative.

The world powers must resist the temptation to tamper with the IAEA.

The current approach to Iran is almost like a self fulfilling prophecy. If Iran is going to be punished like they possess nukes regardless of whether they have nukes or not, then what is their motivation not to develop nukes???

Any news source which doesn't consider this logic and creates a perception that Iran is a known nuclear weapon threat must be considered unreliable.

Your attitude towards Israel is negative. And that has been proven. Ta da............................................Drum Roll puuleeeasssse

That aside Iran is not cooperating with the IAEA - You have supported the IAEA on numerous occasions, now when it does not suit your theories, Ta da, they are not credible.

 

[earth_as_one]

You still didn't provide a way that Iran can prove a negative. I see the logic went over your head.

Basing sanctions on Iran's proven level of cooperation with the IAEA might be fair, if the IAEA was sticking to its mandate and upholding the terms of the NPT objectively. But they aren't doing that. Instead, IAEA demands Iran end their NPT compliant enrichment activities in violation of the NPT, which guarentees all nations the right to develop peaceful nuclear technology, including Iran.

Iran's lack of cooperation with the IAEA probably has something to do with the IAEA lack of objectivity.

I suspect that Iran's adversaries took advantage of the information Iran provided to the IAEA to sabotage Iran's legal enrichment activity. If so, that would be a serious violation of the IAEA's neutrality.

Another concern is that saboteurs increased centrifuge speed to damage them. That indicates a possibility that the saboteurs may also be able to manipulate Iranian centrifuges to exceed NPT enrichment limitations...


BTW, the IAEA inspectors can go anywhere in Iran and talk to anyone they want. They have monitors set up in every critical facility. If Iran was building nukes, they'd have to keep a completely parallel system operating on an large industrial scale secret from the IAEA. I suppose its possible, but until that is proven, Iran should just be closely monitored.

Canada should punish Iran.... based on their human rights record. Their NPT compliant activity is a non issue. If and when Iran ever seriously violates the NPT, they should be punished that same was as other serious NPT violators:
Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea.

I support sanctions against all country with grave human rights concerns. Israel wouldn't be at top of the list, but they'd be higher up than Iran. Libya would probably top the list right now.

 

[lone wolf]

Israel didn't co-operate with IAEA either. Why is fair for one not fair for the other when both are insane enough to do the doom?

 

[Cliffy]

Your attitude towards Israel is negative. And that has been proven. Ta da............................................Drum Roll puuleeeasssse

That aside Iran is not cooperating with the IAEA - You have supported the IAEA on numerous occasions, now when it does not suit your theories, Ta da, they are not credible.

Your attitude towards Iran is negative. That is a proven fact. Ta da.... Drum roll puuleeeassse!!!

And all you have provided today is an unproven allegation. I can make an allegation that you are insane. Will you run down to you local shrink and have that assessed as fact or not?

 

[Goober]

Your attitude towards Iran is negative. That is a proven fact. Ta da.... Drum roll puuleeeassse!!!

And all you have provided today is an unproven allegation. I can make an allegation that you are insane. Will you run down to you local shrink and have that assessed as fact or not?

You do not have to. I realize I am totally crackers - Look at what is under my Avatar. Question answered.

 

[darkbeaver]

Israel has become a liability to the world, that's bad but not critical, Israel has become a liability to the bankers, that's bad and that's critical, so Israel goes under the bus first chance. Will the planets elite give up Israel? Is Swiss cheese full of holes? Of course we will have to listen to another hundred years of victim hood stories. Maybe not.

 

[ironsides]

The Israeli government has officially said that it “deplores” the vote by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) member states to call on Israel to join the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and submit their nuclear facilities to the same oversight as the rest of the world does.
They are not part of nor recognize the IAEA, that is why no one knows what they have. As for being a liability to the world, I would worry more about the Arabs states having nuclear weapons than Israel. Just based upon their respective histories.

 

[earth_as_one]

The Israeli government has officially said that it “deplores” the vote by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) member states to call on Israel to join the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and submit their nuclear facilities to the same oversight as the rest of the world does.
They are not part of nor recognize the IAEA, that is why no one knows what they have. As for being a liability to the world, I would worry more about the Arabs states having nuclear weapons than Israel. Just based upon their respective histories.

Your going to have to explain why Israel gets to thumb its nose at the IAEA and nothing happens, while NPT compliant Iran faces sanctions....

Israel's record shows they have itchy trigger fingers. They have launched attacks without warning. They've escalated minor border skirmishes into full scale wars. Their current leaders commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nuking another country would be just another line Israel has crossed. Even if Israel nuked an entire city and killed millions of people, I doubt they'd get an official UNSC condemnation, let alone punitive sanctions.

I'm not in favor of any country possessing nukes, let alone allowing other nations like Iran to enter the nuclear club. But the NPT double standards must end. If the NPT continues to be used to impose sanctions against NPT compliant Iran while ignoring all the real NPT violators, then it will become a worthless piece of paper. Once that happens all nations which want nukes will build them and it will be a matter of time until some nations uses them

BTW, I can't prove Israel doesn't possess nukes. Again that would be a logical impossibility. But I bet if Israel was subjected to the same level of scrutiny as Iran, the IAEA would soon prove without a doubt that Israel possesses a nuke capability.

 

[Goober]

Your going to have to explain why Israel gets to thumb its nose at the IAEA and nothing happens, while NPT compliant Iran faces sanctions....

Israel's record shows they have itchy trigger fingers. They have launched attacks without warning. They've escalated minor border skirmishes into full scale wars. Their current leaders commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nuking another country would be just another line Israel has crossed. Even if Israel nuked an entire city and killed millions of people, I doubt they'd get an official UNSC condemnation, let alone punitive sanctions.

I'm not in favor of any country possessing nukes, let alone allowing other nations like Iran to enter the nuclear club. But the NPT double standards must end. If the NPT continues to be used to impose sanctions against NPT compliant Iran while ignoring all the real NPT violators, then it will become a worthless piece of paper. Once that happens all nations which want nukes will build them and it will be a matter of time until some nations uses them

BTW, I can't prove Israel doesn't possess nukes. Again that would be a logical impossibility. But I bet if Israel was subjected to the same level of scrutiny as Iran, the IAEA would soon prove without a doubt that Israel possesses a nuke capability.

You are ranting again n Isreal. India is also not a member of the NPT. The IAEA has problems with Iran and their reporting. It is a UN sanctioned body. You used to crow about the IAEA when it supported your view point - Yet now when it does not - Slam - they have a hidden agenda.

 

[MHz]

They are not part of nor recognize the IAEA, that is why no one knows what they have. As for being a liability to the world, I would worry more about the Arabs states having nuclear weapons than Israel. Just based upon their respective histories.

Sounds like you are saying Israel knows how easy it is to get classified info from them and/or manipulate the content.
Iran hasn't invaded anybody in about 200 years, who were you referencing? Nuclear weapons are not the best defenses as country can have, systems like the S-400 are more in line with defense.

 

[ironsides]

Your going to have to explain why Israel gets to thumb its nose at the IAEA and nothing happens, while NPT compliant Iran faces sanctions....

Israel's record shows they have itchy trigger fingers. They have launched attacks without warning. They've escalated minor border skirmishes into full scale wars. Their current leaders commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nuking another country would be just another line Israel has crossed. Even if Israel nuked an entire city and killed millions of people, I doubt they'd get an official UNSC condemnation, let alone punitive sanctions.

I'm not in favor of any country possessing nukes, let alone allowing other nations like Iran to enter the nuclear club. But the NPT double standards must end. If the NPT continues to be used to impose sanctions against NPT compliant Iran while ignoring all the real NPT violators, then it will become a worthless piece of paper. Once that happens all nations which want nukes will build them and it will be a matter of time until some nations uses them

BTW, I can't prove Israel doesn't possess nukes. Again that would be a logical impossibility. But I bet if Israel was subjected to the same level of scrutiny as Iran, the IAEA would soon prove without a doubt that Israel possesses a nuke capability.

I'm willing to bet that Israel has approx. 200+ nuclear weapons, but I would trust them before any other country in the world not to use them unless directly attacked in kind first. So far they have used just the possibility of owning them very well.

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm willing to bet that Israel has approx. 200+ nuclear weapons, but I would trust them before any other country in the world not to use them unless directly attacked in kind first. So far they have used just the possibility of owning them very well.

What are you risking by trusting Israel with nuclear weapons? Do you have as much at stake as someone living in downtown Tehran??? What would their reaction be if you told them what you just wrote?

Unless its your balls under the knife, trust is a meaningless.

That you trust any government proves you haven't a clue.

 

[Goober]

What are you risking by trusting Israel with nuclear weapons? Do you have as much at stake as someone living in downtown Tehran??? What would their reaction be if you told them what you just wrote?

Unless its your balls under the knife, trust is a meaningless.

That you trust any government proves you haven't a clue.

EAO
Trust in Govt can be at times difficult - But then it comes to policies and what particular thing that the Govt wants your trust in. That becomes the factor along with past history to consider.

So you trust Iran when they state they are not planning on manufacturing Nuclear Weapons? Is that correct?

 

[earth_as_one]

Because I don't trust Israel, I must trust Iran???? You really don't get my message.

I trust no government, not even Canada's. You'd have to be particularly dense to trust any government even with verification and auditing as in the case of Iran. Never mind that Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea are not being verified or audited. I trust these countries about equally.

Yet only inspected and audited Iran and North Korea face sanctions. That's blatant double standards.

 

[ironsides]

What are you risking by trusting Israel with nuclear weapons? Do you have as much at stake as someone living in downtown Tehran??? What would their reaction be if you told them what you just wrote?

Unless its your balls under the knife, trust is a meaningless.

That you trust any government proves you haven't a clue.

Why would I worry about what someone in downtown would think or say. Their government with their approval if we can believe that it is legitimate will be the ones who start the shooting. They already are helping the terrorists against the Iraq government and crying foul if anyone objects to their actions. Iran wants the destruction of Israel, what is there to trust.


As to why Israel thumbs their noses at the IAEA, that is their choice, they never approved it since its inception. The UN and all those spin off organizations have been anti Israel since their inception. The UN only approved their existence because of pressure from the U.S., Great Briton. World could have cared less.