Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes

Iran should have Nuke Weapons


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Hi friends,

First of all, I reject wikipedia as a substantive source on anything except dates of birth and death. It's just a matter of intellectual honesty. Sorry, but that's just me.

Instead, this is the type of analysis that I am interested in: International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Nuclear Proliferation: The Next Wave If someone wants to go deep in the tall grass with me, wikipedia is not the source to be used.

I asked that I not be forced to go to get the IAEA report. I asked that my word be taken. Obviously, my word wasn't good enough. So I have taken the time to go to the source:

"F. Summary​
26. The Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran. Iran has
cooperated with the Agency in improving safeguards measures at FEP and in providing the Agency
with access to the IR-40 reactor for purposes of design information verification. Iran has not, however,
implemented the modified text of its Subsidiary Arrangements General Part, Code 3.1, on the early
provision of design information.
27. Iran has not suspended its enrichment related activities or its work on heavy water related
projects as required by the Security Council.
28. Contrary to the requests of the Board of Governors and the Security Council, Iran has neither
implemented the Additional Protocol nor cooperated with the Agency in connection with the
remaining issues of concern which need to be clarified to exclude the possibility of military
dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme. Regrettably, the Agency has not been able to engage Iran in
any substantive discussions about these outstanding issues for over a year. The Agency believes that it
has provided Iran with sufficient access to documentation in its possession to enable Iran to respond
substantively to the questions raised by the Agency. However, the Director General urges Member
States which have provided documentation to the Agency to work out new modalities with the Agency
so that it could share further documentation with Iran, as appropriate, since the Agency’s inability to
do so is rendering it difficult for the Agency to progress further in its verification process.
29. It is critical for Iran to implement the Additional Protocol and clarify the outstanding issues in
order for the Agency to be in a position to provide credible assurance about the absence of undeclared
nuclear material and activities in Iran.​
30. The Director General will continue to report as appropriate."

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2009/gov2009-55.pdf


I apologize for being testy. After all I am an American, and we are not a very happy breed.

Which is exactly what I wrote. Iran is in compliance with the mandatory parts of the NPT, but not fully compliant with all additional voluntary confidence building NPT protocols. Specifically Iran is in violation of the additional voluntary confidence building NPT protocol which requires the IAEA be involved during the planning stages of a new nuclear facility.

NPT 101: Is Iran violating the nuclear treaty? - CSMonitor.com

NPT 101: Why Iran sees nuclear 'hypocrisy' - CSMonitor.com

While Iran has complied with all the other voluntary and mandatory parts of the NPT, they refuse to ratify this one additional voluntary confidence building protocol. These additional protocols are voluntary and Iran is not obligated to observe them, unless they agree to them. Iran has ratified and observes most of the voluntary confidence building protocols. Countries can punish Iran with sanctions for not observing all additional voluntary confidence building protocols, but that doesn't mean that Iran has violated the mandatory parts of the NPT.

According to the additional voluntary confidence building protocol that Iran did not ratify, they must inform the IAEA during the planning stages of any nuclear facility. Last year, Iran informed the IAEA of the location of a new nuclear facility during the construction phase. At the time, Iran had started digging a hole in the ground and were still about a year before they would be ready to start installing equipment. Its ridiculous to claim a partially dug hole in the ground is proof that Iran has a clandestine nuclear weapon program or that Iran has violated any of the mandatory parts of the NPT. Moving on...

As a NPT signatory Iran has the right to enrich uranium up to 20%. 20% enriched uranium cannot be used directly to make a nuclear weapon and must be further refined. There is no evidence that Iran has crossed this 20% enrichment line or intends to cross this line at any time in the future. While Iran possesses the technology to refine uranium above this limit, they would have to reconfigure their enrichment equipment to achieve it. That would take weeks to months. Iran's enrichment facilities are closely monitored by the IAEA (as per one of the additional confidence building NPT protocols) and any attempt to reconfigure their equipment to refine above this limit would be noticed immediately, giving the world weeks or months to react.

All NPT signatory countries have a sovereign right to peaceful nuclear technology without foreign interference. Even the UNSC has no authority to interfere in a country's peaceful NPT compliant nuclear research.

The IAEA has a UN mandate is to monitor and assist a country's nuclear program. The IAEA must report NPT violations to the UNSC. But the IAEA must also provide advice and guidance and facilitate the exchange of peaceful nuclear technology between countries which are NPT compliant. Even the IAEA has no authority or mandate to interfere with a country's peaceful nuclear program which includes enriching uranium up to the 20% threshold and building nuclear facilities.

I don't believe in double standards. The NPT must apply to all nations equally or it will cease to be relevant. Effectively the IAEA and the UNSC have overstepped their authority by interfering in Iran's NPT compliant activities.

Countries which currently violate the mandatory parts of the NPT are: US, UK, France, Russia, China, India, Israel, Pakistan, North Korea

US, UK, France, Russia, China are supposed to reduce and eliminate their nuclear arsenals and stop research in this area. Instead they've modernized and upgraded their nuclear arsenals and have no intention of eliminating their arsenals.

While India, Israel, Pakistan and North Korea are not NPT signatories, they are supposed to face punitive actions by NPT signatories if they violate the mandatory parts of the NPT. Also NPT signatories must not assist non-NPT signatory nuclear programs or engage in nuclear technology related trade with these countries including trade in peaceful nuclear technology.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,240
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Low Earth Orbit
Responsible for killing American citizens, I don't care what his citizenship is. Bring him in dead or alive is an appropriate order. We still don't have him or bin Laden.
They should have sent the IRS after Tim Osman (Osama) since he was on payroll. I doubt he claimed the income.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Does it make the news when other countries "warships" :) pass through the Suez. Is this news?
JERUSALEM—Israel's foreign minister on Wednesday accused Iran of staging a "provocation" by sending a warship on a course to sail through the Suez Canal and past Israel's Mediterranean coast to Syria.

Israel's defense minister and U.S. officials, however, played down the significance of the plans, which Iran announced weeks ago.

The Egyptian authority that runs the canal said no Iranian ship had traversed it or sought permission to do so. Israeli defense officials said the warship, sailing with a supply ship and reportedly taking cadets to a training exercise, posed no military threat...
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Looks like Iran cancelled the trip. By the way, supply ship for who, and taking cadets into a area of conflict? The supply ship carrying contraband is threat enough. Yes, when Iran sends warships into the Med. it is news.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,240
13,922
113
Low Earth Orbit
The US just sent a battle group through the canal. That means Canadian ships too. OMG!

Iran is on the march. That fact will be used against Obama.

Oh gawd, hasten the return of the Mahdi, the Twelfth Imam.
and then Jesus and we all live happily because the Jews finally convert.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Moving
On another thread a lapdog, more like a rodent defended ImaNutJob's so called election as Free and Fair - Wonder what he considers to be rigged? - Not a word about how the Thugocracy murdered demonstrators, show trials with a known conviction rate with hanging the result.

With the protests thru the Mid East you can expect that if the same happened in Iran the Thugocracy would react in the same manner as Gadaffi has with mass murder of its citizens

Unemployment is high, high ratio of youth, well educated, corruption is rampant amongst the Thugocracy - Oil prices drop and a budget that has spent ten of billions on a nuclear weapons program would have been more useful starting a moribund economy. Inflation is thru the roof, freedom is on death row and the riots will come.


The arrests of prominent opposition leaders is just the start - The Thugs are scared and are attending to those that are in opposition. And we all know how the Thugs attend to opposition.

BBC News - Iran: Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi 'arrested'

Iranian opposition leaders Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi, and their wives, have been taken from their homes by security forces, reports suggest.

Mr Karroubi's son told the BBC he had heard his father had been moved, but did not know where he had been taken.

A website close to Mr Mousavi claims the men have been taken to Heshmatiyeh jail in Tehran.

Iranian government officials denied the report, the semi-official Fars news agency said.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Nakusp, BC
BBC News - Iran: Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi 'arrested'

Iranian opposition leaders Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi, and their wives, have been taken from their homes by security forces, reports suggest.

Mr Karroubi's son told the BBC he had heard his father had been moved, but did not know where he had been taken.

A website close to Mr Mousavi claims the men have been taken to Heshmatiyeh jail in Tehran.

Iranian government officials denied the report, the semi-official Fars news agency said.
Supposition and innuendo. Just another hate propaganda piece. Notice the highlighted bits above. Ya got nothin'. Come back when ya got verifiable facts.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Moving
Supposition and innuendo. Just another hate propaganda piece. Notice the highlighted bits above. Ya got nothin'. Come back when ya got verifiable facts.

Not hate - An informed opinion - Goes against your ingrained hate of those that disagree with your view of the US and Isreal.

Prove me wrong Bucko.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Nakusp, BC
Not hate - An informed opinion - Goes against your ingrained hate of those that disagree with your view of the US and Isreal.

Prove me wrong Bucko.
Siting supposition and innuendo is not being informed. I do not know what is going on in Iran because I haven't been there. I know you haven't either. Until some real acts have been presented, I cannot condemn a whole country because of hear say evidence. I dislike violence committed by anybody. You make the accusations so the burden of proof lies with you, not me. You are only as informed as your sources. If they have a western bias, they are only propaganda.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Moving
Siting supposition and innuendo is not being informed. I do not know what is going on in Iran because I haven't been there. I know you haven't either. Until some real acts have been presented, I cannot condemn a whole country because of hear say evidence. I dislike violence committed by anybody. You make the accusations so the burden of proof lies with you, not me. You are only as informed as your sources. If they have a western bias, they are only propaganda.

Have you not noted how many Human Rights Orgs have suddenly switched from Israel - the demon - to many Arab Countries - Articles posted - News papers contacted - Strikes me as drumming up funds is one opinion -

The majority were all over Israel like stink on a fart but ignored the other countries.

Why is Libya still on the UN Human rights Commission?

Guess others do much worse than Israel. Amazing how they realized that. Must have come right out of the blue.

Do you have to be some place to know what is going on. Did the Haiti Earthquake not mean it was reality because you were not there.

Did the Tsunami in Asia not occur because you were not on the beach.

Does the fact that you were not in Myanmar mean that demonstrators were not murdered in the streets.

Tiananmen Square is a fantasy, as you were not there.

Shzt - Get a grip on the BS as that is all it is. I am not there so I do not know, quite the philosophy. Guess the information age passed you and you alone and left you behind.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Minnesota: Gopher State
''Iranian government officials denied the report, the semi-official Fars news agency said.''

Allegations needs to be proven in a court of law, just in case you have forgotten Goofer, err, Goober. If you are so convinced that the allegations have any truth to them, why not present your 'evidence' before the Hague?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Moving
''Iranian government officials denied the report, the semi-official Fars news agency said.''

Allegations needs to be proven in a court of law, just in case you have forgotten Goofer, err, Goober. If you are so convinced that the allegations have any truth to them, why not present your 'evidence' before the Hague?
That is your opinion, such is what is expected from a rodent.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Have you not noted how many Human Rights Orgs have suddenly switched from Israel - the demon - to many Arab Countries - Articles posted - News papers contacted - Strikes me as drumming up funds is one opinion -

Shzt - Get a grip on the BS as that is all it is. I am not there so I do not know, quite the philosophy. Guess the information age passed you and you alone and left you behind.
I guess that my incredulity has to do with your obsession with Iran. You keep posting innuendo as fact. What makes you different from JBeee other than the countries you are obsessed with? There is no proof Iran is developing nuclear weapons and yet you keep making that accusation. It makes it hard to take you seriously. People have posted video evidence of war crimes by the US and Israel and for that you have accused them of hating those countries but you can't even post video evidence of your accusations of Iran. Who really is hateful? Sounds like pointing a finger to divert attention from yourself.