Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes

Iran should have Nuke Weapons


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
Not really, what it would create is an economy of votes. Sell your user id and password to the highest bidder. Corruption would flourish.
At least everybody would be getting a piece of the action. As it is, each bribe today may only need a handful of people to be paid-off. This isn't about issues of where to put the next traffic light, it has to do with our stances on issues of international affairs (UN issues).
For instance, we are country 'A' and a company from our Nations wins a contract to install a telephone system to country 'B'. They fulfill 1/4 of the contract and then quit trying to install any more and then claim foud when country 'B' fires them and fines them. A few paid off would condemn country 'B' where a vote from the 'people' might see the vote swing to favor the ones who were being short-changed. In this case the country that is thinking of hiring them can be assured that if they try to cheat their own host Nation will take steps to see the contract is fulfilled or they end up not bidding on any further contracts anywhere. That would assure that they acted in a responsible fashion at home and abroad. Shutting down all the back-rooms is not something that would harm any Nation.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I know, and they have a seat at the UN too. It is confusing. I'm going to petition for my Neighborhood Association to get a seat at the UN. And if we are refused we will complain to the UNHRC.

Me and my Neighborhood Association are separatists. We're going to have a referendum! :)
Your neighbours would kick you in the nuts, slam the door and call the cops.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Double ought? If you get the spread right it could be a 5 for one deal.

Long before the Washington monument the Muzzies have been throwing stones during Haj at an obelisk as a representation of Satan.

When the Masonic Zionists and their Egyptian underworld worship is a thing of the past the attitude of the world will take a 180 degree spin and we'll have a planet worthy of human life.


Throwing stones at Satan during Haj



Israel supreme court's Masonic Zionist obelisk .



Israel's Supreme Court pyramid.



Downtown Tel Aviv on Rothchild Blvd.


Meet the evil bitch known as Libertas. New York was second choice after Egypt refused the statue.

Who is Libertas? Lucifer the Light Bearer
Been watching to much TV. Was interesting though.

The US has openly funded anti-Iranian terrorist organizations for years:
US funds terror groups to sow chaos in Iran - Telegraph

BTW, Iran even offered to negotiate an end the proxy wars, but the US refused to talk...
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Washington 'snubbed Iran offer'

Like I said, I favor pragmatic diplomacy or violence. Whatever the US and Israel do to Iran, Iran is completely justified to reciprocate. IN other words if you can't take it, then don't dish it out.

So you are in favor of proxy wars, well if so stand aside and stop complaining at the damage they cause. I prefer that if the U.S. has a war that we use the other guys troops if at all possible. Revolutions looks better if locals fight it.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Thanks for the link.....I guess you didn't bother to read it.


Laboulaye's comment was not intended as a proposal, but it inspired a young sculptor, Frédéric Bartholdi, who was present at the dinner.[6] Given the repressive nature of the regime of Napoleon III, Bartholdi took no immediate action on the idea except to discuss it with Laboulaye. Instead, Bartholdi approached Ismail Pasha, Khedive of Egypt, with a plan to build a huge lighthouse in the form of an ancient Egyptian female fellah or peasant, robed and holding a torch aloft, at the northern entrance to the Suez Canal. Sketches and models were made of the proposed work, though it was never erected. There was a classical precedent for the Suez proposal, the Colossus of Rhodes: a bronze statue of the Greek god of the sun, Helios. This statue is believed to have been over 100 feet (30 m) high, and it similarly stood at a harbor entrance and carried a light to guide ships

Second choice....
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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This forum has produced so much crap, it is almost impossible to take seriously.
The fact is Iran has the nuke capability already and there is very little short of a
total war that could change that. The Middle East in general is complicated and
very dangerous simply because for the average person in the street there is little
in the way of hope. A stable economy is a long way off, political uncertainty is a
guarantee, and the package of human misery produces an ever changing climate
of hatred and fear. What is needed in the less radical states, is the ability to get a
job so the society can build a middle class and the ordinary citizen has access to
education. Once this happens the breakdown of tribal institutions takes hold.
We will not achieve peace through endless war, there must be something stable
beyond conflict. The distribution of wealth must also be dealt with. At present the
outside world backs dictators and a privileged class that that rails against sin and
enforces strict moral codes. Of course these same leaders come to the west
and engage in every so called sin imaginable.
If we do not provide the avenues of education, culture and jobs, the situation in those
countries including Iran, will become even more fundamentalist and crazy than it is
now. On Iran we have painted ourselves into a corner. many other countries, Russia,
China and even France will be opposed to nations like America invading or bombing
Iran. If Israel hits them the others might look the other way, but America being involved
is not the best foot forward.
At the same time, I like many others, believe we will ultimately end up at war in a much
larger way in the Middle East. We are on the edge of a showdown, largely because we
postured without acting in any meaningful way to encourage different actions from
within Iran. Sometimes farting around with a place like Iran is the only solution, its like
North Korea, we create a problem through foreign policy and try to contain it, and sooner
or later we will have to deal with it. The question really is at what cost and how far do we
want to go to solve this one?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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This forum has produced so much crap, it is almost impossible to take seriously.
The fact is Iran has the nuke capability already and there is very little short of a
total war that could change that. .......
At least you didn't waste any time proving your opening point.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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These need to be posted here too. They still stand today.

Nuremberg Principles


Principle I
Principle I states, "Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefore and liable to punishment."
Principle II

Principle II states, "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law."
Principle III

Principle III states, "The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law."
Principle IV

Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

Previous to the time of the Nuremberg Trials, this excuse was known in common parlance as "Superior Orders". After the prominent, high profile event of the Nuremberg Trials, that excuse is now referred to by many as "Nuremberg Defense". In recent times, a third term, "Lawful orders" has become common parlance for some people. All three terms are in use today, and they all have slightly different nuances of meaning, depending on the context in which they are used.

Nuremberg Principle IV is legally supported by the jurisprudence found in certain articles in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deal indirectly with conscientious objection. It is also supported by the principles found in paragraph 171 of the Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status which was issued by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Those principles deal with the conditions under which conscientious objectors can apply for refugee status in another country if they face persecution in their own country for refusing to participate in an illegal war.
See also: Nuremberg Defense, Superior Orders, and Lawful orders

Principle V

Principle V states, "Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law."

Principle VI

Principle VI states,
"The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:
(a) Crimes against peacei) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).(b) War crimes:Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation of slave labor or for any other purpose of the civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.(c) Crimes against humanity:Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime."

Principle VII

Principle VII states, "Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.


"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called me nigger." – Muhammad Ali, 1966
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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~~ Nuremberg Principles ~~

Developed by Professor Ben Ferencz who said Bush should have undergone such a trial for his crimes on Iraq.

Bull****.

The USA has only threatened to nuke Iran in your fevered imagination.

Not even close. Get real.


While it is true that the USA has never OFFICIALLY threatened Iran, certain pro war interests such as Hillary Clinton and others have sent menacing signals while intrusive actions such as sanctions have been undertaken:

Mounting US war threats against Iran

Mounting US war threats against Iran

by Bill Van Auken

Leading Republican Senator Lindsey Graham signaled a turn following the midterm elections toward an escalation of US threats against Iran, publicly calling for an all-out war that would “neuter” Tehran and leave it incapable of resistance.
Graham made the statement Saturday at a conference on international security in Halifax, Canada. “Containment is off the table,” he declared in relation to Iran’s nuclear program.
Washington and its allies have accused Tehran of developing its nuclear program for the purpose of building a weapon. The Iranian government has consistently denied this charge, insisting that its program is solely for peaceful, civilian purposes.
Employing the kind of total-war rhetoric that was heard from Germany in the 1930s, the South Carolina Republican vowed that a US attack would be carried out “not to just neutralize their nuclear program, but to sink their navy, destroy their air force and deliver a decisive blow to the Revolutionary Guard. In other words, neuter that regime. Destroy their ability to fight back.”
Graham added that, despite the Democrats’ defeat at the polls last week, if President Barack Obama “decides to be tough with Iran beyond sanctions, I think he is going to feel a lot of Republican support for the idea that we cannot let Iran develop a nuclear weapon.”
Joining Graham in addressing a forum at the Halifax conference was Senator Mark Udall (Democrat, Colorado), who advocated a continuation of the sanctions regime against Iran but added that “every option is on the table,” a euphemism for US military aggression.
Speaking at the same conference, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak described Iran as “a major, major threat to any conceivable world order.” He charged that Tehran is “determined to reach military nuclear capability,” which he said would be “the end of any conceivable nonproliferation regime.”
Israel, which has defied the UN’s nonproliferation efforts and is the only nuclear-armed power in the region, has repeatedly threatened military strikes against Iran. Last month, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz advocated a naval blockade of Iran—an act of war—if Tehran fails to bow to Washington’s demands.
These latest threats come barely a week before the next round of negotiations between Iran and the P5+1, which includes the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council—Britain, China, France, Russia and the US—plus Germany. The talks are slated to take place in Vienna.
The Republican triumph in the midterm elections will drive US foreign policy even further to the right and intensify the threat of a war against Iran. Taking the chairmanship of the House Foreign Affairs Committee in January is Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Republican, Florida). She has opposed diplomacy with Iran, advocating the kind of economic embargo that she has vociferously supported against Cuba.
Ros-Lehtinen is also a fervent backer of the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), which has claimed credit for terrorist attacks inside Iran and has been designated by the US State Department as a “foreign terrorist organization.”
Nearly a third of House Republicans backed a resolution last July providing explicit support for Israel carrying out military strikes against Iran.
The Obama administration and congressional Democrats have already been ratcheting up threats against Iran. After ramming another round of anti-Iranian sanctions through the United Nations Security Council, the administration last July signed into law a new set of unilateral US sanctions aimed at crippling the Iranian economy and creating increased misery for the country’s population so as to destabilize the government.
These sanctions penalize foreign banks and corporations that invest in or trade with Iran, restricting their access to American markets and denying them opportunities for US government contracts. The sanctions particularly target Iran’s key energy sector.
According to a New York Times article last week by David Sanger, even if Iran does come to the talks in Vienna next week, Washington will merely go through the motions of negotiating. Its main aim in participating in the talks will be to gauge “whether a new and surprisingly broad set of economic sanctions is changing Iran’s nuclear calculus.”
The article states that the new proposal from the US is “even more onerous than a deal that the country’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khameni, rejected last year.” It would require that Iran halt nuclear fuel production and give up more than two-thirds more uranium than was stipulated in a tentative agreement reached in talks a year ago.
The Times article states that Washington believes it has “little to show for” the sanctions thus far, “which has prompted a discussion inside the White House about whether it would be helpful, or counterproductive, to have him [Obama] talk more openly about military options.”
Dennis Ross, Obama’s senior Middle East advisor, sounded a similar note in an October 25 address to a conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the principal US pro-Israel lobby.
After bragging that US sanctions had produced mounting economic crisis, inflation and unemployment in Iran, Ross raised the implicit threat of war: “Ultimately, we hope that the severe pressure Iran faces today will compel a change in behavior. The door for diplomacy is still open and we certainly seek a peaceful resolution to our conflict with Iran. But should Iran continue its defiance, despite its growing isolation and the damage to its economy, its leaders should listen carefully to President Obama, who has said many times, ‘we are determined to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.’”
Perhaps the most chilling call for an escalation of the military threat against Iran came in a column entitled “The War Recovery?”, written on the eve of the midterm elections by Washington Post columnist David Broder, the so-called “dean of the Washington press corps.”
Complaining that the deepening economic crisis was creating a “daunting situation” for Obama to win a second term in 2012, Broder, an unabashed supporter of the Democratic president, spelled out two scenarios through which this challenge could be overcome. The first is the vain hope that the economic crisis will be overcome by a turn in the business cycle. Broder concludes that “the market will go where it is going to go” and that such an outcome is unreliable.
He suggests another solution based on the tumultuous history of the 20th century.
“Look back at FDR and the Great Depression,” he writes. “What finally resolved that economic crisis? World War II.
“Here is where Obama is likely to prevail. With strong Republican support in Congress for challenging Iran’s ambition to become a nuclear power, he can spend much of 2011 and 2012 orchestrating a showdown with the mullahs. This will help him politically because the opposition party will be urging him on. And as tensions rise and we accelerate preparations for war, the economy will improve.”
There one has it: a modest proposal for economic revival and a successful reelection campaign prepared through the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.
Underlying such bloodthirsty proposals are not merely the cynical political calculations of one or the other of America’s two right-wing, pro-imperialist parties, but rather the historic decline of American capitalism and the deepest crisis of the world capitalist system since the Great Depression of the 1930s.
Militarism is embraced by both parties. This reflects the consensus within the ruling elite that American capitalism can offset its economic decline through the use of military force to establish US hegemony in the energy-rich and geostrategically critical regions of the Middle East and Central Asia.
The words of Broder and the Republicans, together with the actions of the Obama administration, underscore the threat of a new and far bloodier war that would carry with it the danger of a global conflagration.

Bill Van Auken is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research




It's time to put an end to such stupidities.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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One of the biggest mistakes the west ever made, the Nuremburg Trials.

I'm with Churchill......shoot the top German offenders, no trial necessary.....then get on with life.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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One of the biggest mistakes the west ever made, the Nuremburg Trials.

I'm with Churchill......shoot the top German offenders, no trial necessary.....then get on with life.


There's a surprise. You and the Taliban, kill em all is the only answer ya's know.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Double standards are annoying?

Very much so.

Kinda ludicrous putting the Germans on trial, after fighting a war allied with Stalin (a worse mass murderer than Hitler), killing innocents in German cities by the million, nuking Japan, and forcing Russian POWs by the millions to return to the USSR where a large portion of them were immediately stood up against a wall and shot.

International Law is, was, and probably always will be a complete joke.

So. Shoot those at the helm, the leaders that issued the orders for mass murders, the political drivers, those responsible for the Holocaust.

Then get on with life.

Why bother with the hypocrisy???
 
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gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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''One of the biggest mistakes the west ever made, the Nuremburg Trials.''

The mistake was in not enforcing it on an uniform basis against all who impose depredations upon innocent people.