Costco -- the Bible is fiction

[Dexter Sinister]

So does Patrick O'Brian's Master and Commander. But nobody has a problem putting it in fiction.

Nobody's ever claimed it's anything else, it's clearly intended as fiction built around known historical events, and there's a lot of fiction like that, but there are plenty of people who claim the Bible is true and correct in every detail when it demonstrably is not, it's a different class of book entirely.

Are you trying to say that Jesus was fictional?

He was real to the extent that there was a charismatic apocalyptic preacher in 1st century Palestine that the stories of Jesus are based on, in fact we know there was more than one such person. Judaism routinely produced such people when it felt itself oppressed and dominated by foreign empires, you can find it in Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation, among other places. But the water into wine, walking on water, calming the storm, healing the crippled, casting out demons, all that supernatural Son of God stuff, yeah that's fiction.

 

[Cliffy]

Jesus may have been real but the Christ character was borrowed from many fictional characters that went before him.

 

[Blackleaf]

That you have the mind of an eight year old? It's bad enough you have malign anyone ethnically different from yourself, must you insult children now too?

I think you know what I was referring to.

Either that or you're very dim.

Jesus may have been real but the Christ character was borrowed from many fictional characters that went before him.

Yeah. Alright, then.

But the water into wine, walking on water, calming the storm, healing the crippled, casting out demons, all that supernatural Son of God stuff, yeah that's fiction.

Well, that's not what Christians, including me, believe, and no amount of poncy atheist preaching from sick, nasty Christianophobes is going to change our minds.

The people who pick on and bully Christians are just cowards. They have no problem in saying that Jesus was just an ordinary bloke who was not the son of God and could not perform miracles. They probably get some sort of twisted, sick, perverse pleasure from telling Christians that their religion is just "fairytales".

Yet those same morons wouldn't dare say the same things about Mohammed. They wouldn't dare say that the story of Mohammed ascending to heaven alive at the site of the Dome of the Rock is just fictional, and that all those Muslims who believe in it are just believing in a fairytale. They won't dare say it because they'll know they'll have millions of irate Muslims (who also believe in Jesus the same as Christians do and who they believe is alive in heaven) calling, literally, for their heads.

Christians don't get violent like that, though, when someone attacks their religion, so it's open season on Christianity by the cowardly Christianophobes.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Looks like you've got some issues with anger. You should also know that ad hominem attacks add nothing to your argument, they just make you look foolish. Religion's claims don't get a free pass, they have to stand or fall on their own merits just like any other ideas do. It's a weak and watery belief that responds to criticism with suppression.

 

[Locutus]

All religious texts in the fiction section or none of them. No biggie.

 

[taxslave]

While I am not a believer in biblical events as they are written, labeling the book as fiction seems to be a form of mocking that I am not comfortable with. Millions of people do believe in the bible in various forms; an historical book, a spiritual guide or at least one with valuable philosophical instruction. Thus to label it as fiction seems disrespectful in a way which was unnecessary.

Millions of people believe in santa and the easter bunny as well. Still doesn't make them real.

I think you know what I was referring to.

Either that or you're very dim.



Yeah. Alright, then.



Well, that's not what Christians, including me, believe, and no amount of poncy atheist preaching from sick, nasty Christianophobes is going to change our minds.

The people who pick on and bully Christians are just cowards. They have no problem in saying that Jesus was just an ordinary bloke who was not the son of God and could not perform miracles. They probably get some sort of twisted, sick, perverse pleasure from telling Christians that their religion is just "fairytales".

Yet those same morons wouldn't dare say the same things about Mohammed. They wouldn't dare say that the story of Mohammed ascending to heaven alive at the site of the Dome of the Rock is just fictional, and that all those Muslims who believe in it are just believing in a fairytale. They won't dare say it because they'll know they'll have millions of irate Muslims (who also believe in Jesus the same as Christians do and who they believe is alive in heaven) calling, literally, for their heads.

Christians don't get violent like that, though, when someone attacks their religion, so it's open season on Christianity by the cowardly Christianophobes.

You never hear of the Spanish Inquisition? Salem witch trials? The Black Robes? Then there is the murder and/or enslavement of thousands of indigenous peoples around the world. Christians have a long tradition of murdering anyone with contrary beliefs.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Millions of people believe in santa and the easter bunny as well. Still doesn't make them real.



You never hear of the Spanish Inquisition? Salem witch trials? The Black Robes? Then there is the murder and/or enslavement of thousands of indigenous peoples around the world. Christians have a long tradition of murdering anyone with contrary beliefs.

Or even the same beliefs. Look at Northern Ireland. Or the reign of Mary Tudor.

 

[Cliffy]

Yeah. Alright, then.

The sacred mushroom and the cross

Sacred Mushroom and the Cross (Part 1) - YouTube

 

[petros]

Jesus may have been real but the Christ character was borrowed from many fictional characters that went before him.

That is malarkey. Look beyond the Arcanoyd S. broad's hooey and you'll find it's malarkey.

The sacred mushroom and the cross

Sacred Mushroom and the Cross (Part 1) - YouTube

Yay St. Nicolai is coming!

You can buy amanitas on eBay cliffy. Go for it! Hook up with Kristov Kringlovich in his magic sleigh.

 

[WLDB]

Yet those same morons wouldn't dare say the same things about Mohammed. They wouldn't dare say that the story of Mohammed ascending to heaven alive at the site of the Dome of the Rock is just fictional, and that all those Muslims who believe in it are just believing in a fairytale. They won't dare say it because they'll know they'll have millions of irate Muslims (who also believe in Jesus the same as Christians do and who they believe is alive in heaven) calling, literally, for their heads.

Sure they would. Ive done it a few times when debating or discussing Islam with Muslims. All the big "new atheists" do it regularly. Salman Rushdie has done it both before and after Khomenei issued his fatwa against him. Ayan Hirsi Ali does it regularly and has survived a number of assassination attempts.

Christians don't get violent like that, though, when someone attacks their religion, so it's open season on Christianity by the cowardly Christianophobes.

The Crusades, Inquisition, 30 years war, Reformation and KKK never happened? Christians were just as violent when their religion was the same age that Islam is now. They still occasionally kill gays and abortion doctors.

While I am not a believer in biblical events as they are written, labeling the book as fiction seems to be a form of mocking that I am not comfortable with. Millions of people do believe in the bible in various forms; an historical book, a spiritual guide or at least one with valuable philosophical instruction. Thus to label it as fiction seems disrespectful in a way which was unnecessary.

Stating facts is not disrespectful. Some of it is true but the vast majority is either fiction or has nothing to back it up outside of the Bible itself. Putting it in a philosophy section is fine but if we have to decide between fiction and non-fiction it'd have to go into fiction. If people dont like it and want it put into the non-fiction section fine, but they have to prove everything (or at least a majority of it) actually happened. There are no historical records or archeological evidence to back up most of it. To put this in the non fiction section suggests Adam, Eve and the Garden of Eden are real. It says they were fooled by a talking snake. Seriously, how can anyone of sound mind believe that to be a historical fact? Or the Biblical flood, there is no evidence to suggest the world was ever completely below sea level. Or Moses and his folks wandering through the desert for 40 years. If they did do that they were very very clean and left everything undisturbed as there is no evidence of that ever happening. Or how about an earthquake and major storm in Jerusalem right when Jesus died? One would think that someone would have written that down. Other than the Bible there is nothing to suggest it happened. Same with the resurrection. I imagine the Romans and the high priests at the Jewish Temple would have taken notice if someone they executed popped back to life and started doing the same things a few days later.

 

[Spade]

Or even the same beliefs. Look at Northern Ireland. Or the reign of Mary Tudor.

Or Germany, not so long ago. Gott mit uns.

 

[petros]

The Crusades, Inquisition, 30 years war, Reformation and KKK never happened? Christians were just as violent when their religion was the same age that Islam is now. They still occasionally kill gays and abortion doctors.

Thing is that doesn't make the NT any less of a manual to Spirituality any different than the Hindu Vedas, Koran, Confucianism. Buddhist Tipitaka, the Dhammapada etc.

 

[Omicron]

Well, that's not what Christians, including me, believe

Only your branch of Christianity, which is mearly Anglicised Catholocism.

I'm guessing you never heard of Nestorians, Gnostics and Arian Christians.

I'm also betting you don't know that the Council of Nicaea was just a form of theological compomise forced by Constantine in order to level out Christianity into a form that was compatable with Roman Empirical rule.

Jesus may have been real but the Christ character was borrowed from many fictional characters that went before him.

Yeah... the idea of life being able to rise from the dead goes so far back nobody knows when it started. Why do people think mummified pharaohs were burried with tombs full of artifacts to play with after they came back to life? Egyptians were doing that 3200 years before Jesus.

Part of what made Jesus outstanding to Jews was that they were Johny-come-latelies to the notion of an afterlife. All Jewish teachings in the Old Testament were about laws governing methods of living in the here-and-now, with nothing about an afterlife.

 

[petros]

Oh nooooo. I'm far from Anglo.

Christianity and it's writings hit Roman soil far earlier than Constantine. It was in Greek long before Latin.

 

[Omicron]

Oh nooooo. I'm far from Anglo.

I was talking about Blackleaf, who flaunts his/her Anglicanism.

The Anglican church is/was just Roman Catholocism, only with the head being the Archbishop of Caturbury instead of the Pope, and with the Bible being in English instead of Latin.

 

[petros]

I see.

As you were.

 

[Cliffy]

Thing is that doesn't make the NT any less of a manual to Spirituality any different than the Hindu Vedas, Koran, Confucianism. Buddhist Tipitaka, the Dhammapada etc.

If taken metaphorically and allegorically, yes. Taken literally, it is fiction. Guide books are just that, guides. There is no one way to spiritual enlightenment.

 

[petros]

If they work, they work.

Born yesterdays combine OT & NT and that makes for a big mess.

 

[Cliffy]

If they work, they work.

Born yesterdays combine OT & NT and that makes for a big mess.

If they work for some, that is good. None work for all, obviously.

 

[petros]

Culture gets in the way.