Re: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Oh good - a football player weighs in
Oh good - a football player weighs in
Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or survival
- Thread starter earth_as_one
- Start date
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
That's the crux of the issue isn't it? When will the US go down. I have some breaking news for you, not in your lifetime.
Logic 7 said:
That's the crux of the issue isn't it? When will the US go down. I have some breaking news for you, not in your lifetime.
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
A strong US is in Canada's best interests. If the US goes down, so does Canada. Our economies are very closely linked.
Better would be for the America to remain strong but not led by war criminals. Hugo Chavez's speech directly appealed to the American people to get rid of their criminal leadership.
A strong US is in Canada's best interests. If the US goes down, so does Canada. Our economies are very closely linked.
Better would be for the America to remain strong but not led by war criminals. Hugo Chavez's speech directly appealed to the American people to get rid of their criminal leadership.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
Venezuela's people are sick of Chavez
Caracas 21.09.06 | Whilst Hugo Chavez makes an ass of himself at the UN, his constituents back home, i.e. those who will decide whether he gets to enjoy that UN seat or not, aren't so enthusiastic about the idea, much less on the spending spree that has led to it. Someone who knows a thing or two about the UN -Ambassador Diego Arria- commented yesterday on the radio that Venezuela has been granted that seat 4 times in the past. The fundamental difference between then and now is the international standing that Venezuela enjoyed then and now, which in reality means that never our country had to buy its way into it. But the interesting aspect is the reaction of regular folks that do not feel related to Chavez's crazed ideas.
Yesterday we went to Araira, Guatire and Guarenas, the last two being satellite cities of Caracas, where opposition candidate Manuel Rosales keeps being asked how he will solve local issues that affect everyday lives. The message that regular Venezuelans are sneding is deafening "we do not care about international grandstanding, alliances with "bichos raros" (as they refer to Chavez's Islamofundamentalists and authoritarian buddies) or any of that crap while there are no jobs, no security, while our kids are decimated by criminals who are now, more than ever before, untouchable." "Los malandros estan con el gobierno pues" said to me Antonio Perez in Guatire. Gladis Peña in Araira on the other hand complained about the absolute indifference of the Chavez government. "La crecida vino y se llevo todo eso y todavia estamos esperando que el gobierno resuelva" she said bitterly. Powerful stuff.
Another surprise, for me at least, is that outside Caracas' barrios -where the official hatred discourse has convinced some that even if they aren't better off they're now part of something which can't be described- people are much more relaxed, friendly and frank about their politics. I had a very good conversation yesterday with a chavista called Marcos Nuñez. He gave me his name and treated me as I am accustomed to be treated by fellow countrymen. The fear factor is ever present in conversations, which is odd in a country that has a characteristic irreverent attitude about life.
This election will be decided on local issues and the more I go around the greater the conviction that Chavez is in for a surprise. As Antonio said "este pueblo se canso de los abusos y la irresponsabilidad de Chavez."
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200609210458
fuzzylogix said:
Venezuela's people are sick of Chavez
Caracas 21.09.06 | Whilst Hugo Chavez makes an ass of himself at the UN, his constituents back home, i.e. those who will decide whether he gets to enjoy that UN seat or not, aren't so enthusiastic about the idea, much less on the spending spree that has led to it. Someone who knows a thing or two about the UN -Ambassador Diego Arria- commented yesterday on the radio that Venezuela has been granted that seat 4 times in the past. The fundamental difference between then and now is the international standing that Venezuela enjoyed then and now, which in reality means that never our country had to buy its way into it. But the interesting aspect is the reaction of regular folks that do not feel related to Chavez's crazed ideas.
Yesterday we went to Araira, Guatire and Guarenas, the last two being satellite cities of Caracas, where opposition candidate Manuel Rosales keeps being asked how he will solve local issues that affect everyday lives. The message that regular Venezuelans are sneding is deafening "we do not care about international grandstanding, alliances with "bichos raros" (as they refer to Chavez's Islamofundamentalists and authoritarian buddies) or any of that crap while there are no jobs, no security, while our kids are decimated by criminals who are now, more than ever before, untouchable." "Los malandros estan con el gobierno pues" said to me Antonio Perez in Guatire. Gladis Peña in Araira on the other hand complained about the absolute indifference of the Chavez government. "La crecida vino y se llevo todo eso y todavia estamos esperando que el gobierno resuelva" she said bitterly. Powerful stuff.
Another surprise, for me at least, is that outside Caracas' barrios -where the official hatred discourse has convinced some that even if they aren't better off they're now part of something which can't be described- people are much more relaxed, friendly and frank about their politics. I had a very good conversation yesterday with a chavista called Marcos Nuñez. He gave me his name and treated me as I am accustomed to be treated by fellow countrymen. The fear factor is ever present in conversations, which is odd in a country that has a characteristic irreverent attitude about life.
This election will be decided on local issues and the more I go around the greater the conviction that Chavez is in for a surprise. As Antonio said "este pueblo se canso de los abusos y la irresponsabilidad de Chavez."
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200609210458
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Support for Venezuela's Chavez weakens, poll says
Reuters
Wednesday, September 20, 2006; 12:18 PM
CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Support for President Hugo Chavez has weakened before a December election but the anti-U.S. incumbent is still likely to return to power, a poll published in an opposition paper showed on Wednesday.
In a head-to-head race between Chavez and the governor of an oil-producing region, who last month united opposition groups behind him, the president has 48 percent support, compared with his rival's 30 percent, the poll said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092000883.html
Support for Venezuela's Chavez weakens, poll says
Reuters
Wednesday, September 20, 2006; 12:18 PM
CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Support for President Hugo Chavez has weakened before a December election but the anti-U.S. incumbent is still likely to return to power, a poll published in an opposition paper showed on Wednesday.
In a head-to-head race between Chavez and the governor of an oil-producing region, who last month united opposition groups behind him, the president has 48 percent support, compared with his rival's 30 percent, the poll said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092000883.html
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Chavez is a product of reduced US hegemoney in Latin America.
If Americans hadn't been so committed in the middle east, they might have been able to commit more resources to removing Chavez back in 2002.
It doesn't matter to Americans that the Venezuelan people democratically elected Chavez in free and fair elections.
What matters most Americans about Chavez is whatever propaganda they are told by the American government/news.
The Bush administration problem with Chavez is that since he took office, he has frequently raised taxes on Venezuelan oil, reducing profits of American oil companies.
Most of us don't have a clue who Chavez is or what he has done. Our news about Chavez is mostly BS. Therefore most of what is known about Chavez is BS.
Chavez's greatest crime has been to use Venezuela's oil wealth reduce Venezuelan poverty.
One side effect of Chavez's socialist policies has been a trickle up effect on Venezuela's wealthy.
Before Chavez, most of Venezuela's oil wealth left Venezuela. A small minority of Venezuelans profitted from oil, but overall the country was poorer.
Chavez restructured Venezuela's economy so more oil wealth was redirected to Venezuela's poor. As a result more wealth stayed in Venezuela and entered the economy from the bottom. As Venezuela's poor spent their new wealth on building supplies, furniture, transportation..., the wealth trickled up into the hands of business owners who sold building supplies, furniture, transportation...
The result is an overall increase in Venezuela's GDP and reduction in poverty.
Chavez is a product of reduced US hegemoney in Latin America.
If Americans hadn't been so committed in the middle east, they might have been able to commit more resources to removing Chavez back in 2002.
It doesn't matter to Americans that the Venezuelan people democratically elected Chavez in free and fair elections.
What matters most Americans about Chavez is whatever propaganda they are told by the American government/news.
The Bush administration problem with Chavez is that since he took office, he has frequently raised taxes on Venezuelan oil, reducing profits of American oil companies.
Most of us don't have a clue who Chavez is or what he has done. Our news about Chavez is mostly BS. Therefore most of what is known about Chavez is BS.
Chavez's greatest crime has been to use Venezuela's oil wealth reduce Venezuelan poverty.
One side effect of Chavez's socialist policies has been a trickle up effect on Venezuela's wealthy.
Before Chavez, most of Venezuela's oil wealth left Venezuela. A small minority of Venezuelans profitted from oil, but overall the country was poorer.
Chavez restructured Venezuela's economy so more oil wealth was redirected to Venezuela's poor. As a result more wealth stayed in Venezuela and entered the economy from the bottom. As Venezuela's poor spent their new wealth on building supplies, furniture, transportation..., the wealth trickled up into the hands of business owners who sold building supplies, furniture, transportation...
The result is an overall increase in Venezuela's GDP and reduction in poverty.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
As opposed to the periodic 4 hour shows on Venezuelan television where Chavez talks about anything and everything uninterprupted and unquestioned?
More money from oil should be going to the poor. However, Venezuela's productive capacity has fallen from 3.3 million barrels a day to 2.6 million under Chavez as capital has been starved out of PDVSA, technical people have left and foreign capital diminishes.
He's eating his seed corn.
earth_as_one said:
As opposed to the periodic 4 hour shows on Venezuelan television where Chavez talks about anything and everything uninterprupted and unquestioned?
earth_as_one said:
More money from oil should be going to the poor. However, Venezuela's productive capacity has fallen from 3.3 million barrels a day to 2.6 million under Chavez as capital has been starved out of PDVSA, technical people have left and foreign capital diminishes.
He's eating his seed corn.
Re: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Well I've seen lots of Bush did it remarks here... but didn't know he was responsible for Chavez too.... Lotus Eater Reality
Well I've seen lots of Bush did it remarks here... but didn't know he was responsible for Chavez too.... Lotus Eater Reality
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
I am not claiming Chavez is humble or doesn't resort to propaganda to cling to power.
I meant to point out that most of what we know about Chavez from our media is highly filtered by forces which are hostile to Chavez.
Chavez's programs did initially result in flight of capital and human resources by Big Oil. No doubt Big Oil would like to shutdown Venezuela's oil industry. But despite a general strike, Venezuela's oil industry has fallen into compliance with OPEC quotas. Before Chavez, Venezuela was a major violator of OPEC agreements.
An American funded coup also caused problems.
But since Chavez took office, Venezuela's oil industry has benefitted from middle east tension and international growth. It has more than recovered from past foreign interventions. The Venezuela sticks to OPEC quotas doesn't prove it can't produce more oil.
Chavez's economic model proves Venezuans are better off when more of their oil wealth stays in Venezuela.
I am not claiming Chavez is humble or doesn't resort to propaganda to cling to power.
I meant to point out that most of what we know about Chavez from our media is highly filtered by forces which are hostile to Chavez.
Chavez's programs did initially result in flight of capital and human resources by Big Oil. No doubt Big Oil would like to shutdown Venezuela's oil industry. But despite a general strike, Venezuela's oil industry has fallen into compliance with OPEC quotas. Before Chavez, Venezuela was a major violator of OPEC agreements.
An American funded coup also caused problems.
But since Chavez took office, Venezuela's oil industry has benefitted from middle east tension and international growth. It has more than recovered from past foreign interventions. The Venezuela sticks to OPEC quotas doesn't prove it can't produce more oil.
Chavez's economic model proves Venezuans are better off when more of their oil wealth stays in Venezuela.
Re: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Earth earth earth you have to keep up....
Venezuelans do not get any news from the U.S. or about the U.S. except what Oogo's government wish them to read/hear/see. He has virtually "Cubanized" the people - it is why I use the descriptive "Dictator".
One of the first things Oogo did was shut down the national television and broadcasting companies and insert his own version of the CBC for the people's minds.
Earth earth earth you have to keep up....
Venezuelans do not get any news from the U.S. or about the U.S. except what Oogo's government wish them to read/hear/see. He has virtually "Cubanized" the people - it is why I use the descriptive "Dictator".
One of the first things Oogo did was shut down the national television and broadcasting companies and insert his own version of the CBC for the people's minds.
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Ah, do you KNOW any Venezuelan people, Wednesday. I do, and that is such crap. You dont know what you are talking about. Have you ever been to Venezuela ( and I dont mean just Margarita Island???) You should try it.
Ah, do you KNOW any Venezuelan people, Wednesday. I do, and that is such crap. You dont know what you are talking about. Have you ever been to Venezuela ( and I dont mean just Margarita Island???) You should try it.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
Virtually all OPEC nations lie about their production quota. When oil is $60, what do you expect them to do?
However, Venezuela claims to be producing more than they actually are, whereas virtually every other OPEC nation says they're producing less than they are, which is normal behavior in a cartel.
The government of Venezuela claims to be producing 3.3 million barrels. As per your graph, they are not. They're producing 2.6 million. It doesn't much matter that oil production is where it was when Chavez came to power. What matters is where it should be now. And it should be higher.
And there are three reasons why it is not.
First, he fired many highly skilled people in PDVSA after the coup attempt, some who have, ironically, ended up in Calgary, and placed cronies in the company, people with no experience in the oil business.
Second, despite the rhetoric, his actions are discouraging investment in Veneula's oil fields. Venezuela does not have the capital nor the expertise to continue production at its current levels. It needs foreign companies. And oil companies have left Venezuela rather than succumb to the unilateral altered terms of contracts.
Finally, he is sucking capital out of PDVSA. He is using that capital to buy votes amongst the poor. He's killing the geese that lays the golden eggs.
Like I said, more money should be spent on the poor in Venezuela, like many other oil producing countries. However, to argue that how Chavez is running the oil industry is beneficial for the long-term health of Venezuela is dubious at best.
earth_as_one said:I am not claiming Chavez is humble or doesn't resort to propaganda to cling to power.
I meant to point out that most of what we know about Chavez from our media is highly filtered by forces which are hostile to Chavez.
Chavez's programs did initially result in flight of capital and human resources by Big Oil. No doubt Big Oil would like to shutdown Venezuela's oil industry. But despite a general strike, Venezuela's oil industry has fallen into compliance with OPEC quotas. Before Chavez, Venezuela was a major violator of OPEC agreements.
An American funded coup also caused problems.
But since Chavez took office, Venezuela's oil industry has benefitted from middle east tension and international growth. It has more than recovered from past foreign interventions. The Venezuela sticks to OPEC quotas doesn't prove it can't produce more oil.
Chavez's economic model proves Venezuans are better off when more of their oil wealth stays in Venezuela.
Virtually all OPEC nations lie about their production quota. When oil is $60, what do you expect them to do?
However, Venezuela claims to be producing more than they actually are, whereas virtually every other OPEC nation says they're producing less than they are, which is normal behavior in a cartel.
The government of Venezuela claims to be producing 3.3 million barrels. As per your graph, they are not. They're producing 2.6 million. It doesn't much matter that oil production is where it was when Chavez came to power. What matters is where it should be now. And it should be higher.
And there are three reasons why it is not.
First, he fired many highly skilled people in PDVSA after the coup attempt, some who have, ironically, ended up in Calgary, and placed cronies in the company, people with no experience in the oil business.
Second, despite the rhetoric, his actions are discouraging investment in Veneula's oil fields. Venezuela does not have the capital nor the expertise to continue production at its current levels. It needs foreign companies. And oil companies have left Venezuela rather than succumb to the unilateral altered terms of contracts.
Finally, he is sucking capital out of PDVSA. He is using that capital to buy votes amongst the poor. He's killing the geese that lays the golden eggs.
Like I said, more money should be spent on the poor in Venezuela, like many other oil producing countries. However, to argue that how Chavez is running the oil industry is beneficial for the long-term health of Venezuela is dubious at best.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
Fuzzy si Logic no
Yes. Now run along and do your homework.
fuzzylogix said:
Fuzzy si Logic no
Yes. Now run along and do your homework.
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Interesting to see the darts thrown at Chavez. Taking a look at another international oil giant, Canada, it's said its citizens don't benefit from the country's rich oil reserves when international prices push up gasoline costs and home oil levies. That can't possibly be true. Is it?
Interesting to see the darts thrown at Chavez. Taking a look at another international oil giant, Canada, it's said its citizens don't benefit from the country's rich oil reserves when international prices push up gasoline costs and home oil levies. That can't possibly be true. Is it?
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
Depends on whether you live in Alberta or not.
tamarin said:
Depends on whether you live in Alberta or not.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
And all Canadians own stock in oil companies because all Canadians are beneficiaries of the Canada Pension Plan, which owns Canadian equity index funds and thus Canadian oil companies.
Colpy said:
And all Canadians own stock in oil companies because all Canadians are beneficiaries of the Canada Pension Plan, which owns Canadian equity index funds and thus Canadian oil companies.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
Or, we can look at Brazil, which has a left-wing President who will be re-elected, and who doesn't make himself look like a jackass in front of the world and who doesn't meddle in other countries's politics.
tamarin said:
Or, we can look at Brazil, which has a left-wing President who will be re-elected, and who doesn't make himself look like a jackass in front of the world and who doesn't meddle in other countries's politics.
RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or surv
Gosh, this is getting scary. Has the Canadian government told Canadians that their floating costs for energy are offset by gains in their pension plans? Sounds darkly nebulous to me. Why would any oil rich country - like Canada - throw its citizens to the wolves during extended periods of market brinkmanship? Months where international speculators have the market by the gonads and are shaking the hell ouf of it. No shortage of supply. None! Oil markets totally working at the behest of the rich getting richer and Mama Oil - Canada - says 'eat cake!'
So are Canucks about to hit the streets over this? Venezuelans, Brazilians, Saudi Arabians would.
Gosh, this is getting scary. Has the Canadian government told Canadians that their floating costs for energy are offset by gains in their pension plans? Sounds darkly nebulous to me. Why would any oil rich country - like Canada - throw its citizens to the wolves during extended periods of market brinkmanship? Months where international speculators have the market by the gonads and are shaking the hell ouf of it. No shortage of supply. None! Oil markets totally working at the behest of the rich getting richer and Mama Oil - Canada - says 'eat cake!'
So are Canucks about to hit the streets over this? Venezuelans, Brazilians, Saudi Arabians would.
Re: RE: Chavez: World faces choice between U.S. hegemony or
OPEC link
http://www.opec.org/aboutus/member countries/venezuela.htm
It says that Venezuela is now producing 3.1 mm b/d, different than the 2.6 mm b/d in the graph you posted.
That doesn't include distilates.
This link references Strategic Forecasting
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/duarte/2005/0520.html
Here is the Stratfor article (thanks ITN)
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200505171620
Various other private organizations such as Cambridge Energy Associates and Morgan Stanley make the same estimates.
earth_as_one said:
OPEC link
http://www.opec.org/aboutus/member countries/venezuela.htm
It says that Venezuela is now producing 3.1 mm b/d, different than the 2.6 mm b/d in the graph you posted.
That doesn't include distilates.
This link references Strategic Forecasting
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/duarte/2005/0520.html
Here is the Stratfor article (thanks ITN)
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200505171620
Various other private organizations such as Cambridge Energy Associates and Morgan Stanley make the same estimates.