Canada: No longer a Democracy

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
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Hither and yon
That is assuming that the NDP, Lib and Bloq triumvirate seizes control of the Federal Government of Canada.

Whether or not the GG Michelle Jean will approve it has been discussed on other threads.
I believe she will.
And at a stroke Canada will cease to be a Democracy by definition.
It will be legal and it will be constitutionally permitted but make no mistake we will cease to be a Democracy.

The definition of a Democracy is as follows.
Quote: online dictionary
“Democracy is a form of government in which power is held by people under a free electoral system.”
Quote: Webster’s
“1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections”


The coalition which will take over Canada's Government is non-elected in a leadership capacity.
They are of course elected politician's but that is not the issue.
Another point is they are suspending elections for the duration of their Governance.
They say that will be 1 1/2 years.
What happens if the extend it to 5 or 10 years?
Duration is not the issue.
Suspension of a Democratically elected Government IS the issue.

The definition of a Democratic Government is as follows:
Quote freepedia.
"Democratic Government is a government elected by the people."

The above will not apply to Canada and unfortunately we will cease to be a Democratic nation.


Will Canada's new Government be defined as seizing power via a coup d'état?
Its arguable.

Quote webanswers.
"Coup d’etat
n., pl. coups d'état or coup d'états .The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority."

It should be pointed out that in Canada's case it certainly would be a non-violent coup.
It would also be a constitutionally permitted coup d'état as versus a non constitutionally permitted one.

The media is already starting to refer to it as a coup.

L. Ian MacDonald: A very Canadian coup - Full Comment

Does this mean Canada will officially become a Banana Republic.
Ummm... maybe it does.


Future looks bleak for PM, Tories

At least thats how the Post sees it.


What kind of Government would Canada have?
I dunno; how about you pick?

Quote: Alverno college/definitions
"5. Dictatorship
A dictatorship consists of rule by one person or a group of people. Very few dictators admit they are dictators; they almost always claim to be leaders of democracies. The dictator may be one person, such as Castro in Cuba or Hitler in Germany, or a group of people, such as the Communist Party in China.

6. Democratic Republic
Usually, a "democratic republic" is not democratic and is not a republic. A government that officially calls itself a "democratic republic" is usually a dictatorship. Communist dictatorships have been especially prone to use this term. For example, the official name of North Vietnam was "The Democratic Republic of Vietnam." China uses a variant, "The People's Republic of China.""

Avoiding a free leadership election is the defining issue.
And this Bloq, NDP and Liberal triumvirate is going to avoid a leadership election at all costs.
People can argue that we just had an election, that the majority doesn't vote anyway and so on.
Doesn't matter, your either Democratic or your not.

People have criticized the Government of Venezuela led by Hugo Chavez.
The Government of Nicaragua led by Daniel Ortega.
Or perhaps the Government of Russia led by Medveddev.
But guess what?

They were all elected to the position of leadership that they hold.

Canada is about to become a new and different place.
Who knows; perhaps our new Government will decide to nationalize the media.
Create a "new" passport.
Perhaps we need to mobilize our troops into the cities.
Just temporarily, and of course just to insure law and order.
Its a slippery slope.

Trex
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Whew, that's about all I have to say to that, where do you get what you're smoking cos it seems AWESOME!!

Why is it that right wingers ALWAYS blame the left for "fear mongering" and then turn around and resort to it LARGE every time the going gets rough for them??
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
2,152
14
38
Sitting at my laptop
The best solution IMO, is for Harper to rework the budget, make it a true economic stimuls package and get rid of the "petty" garbage that Flaherty has thrown in there (funding for political parties) as some kind of deluded afterthought after a heavy night drinking.

Nobody wantas the bloc to have that much of a say, neither Dion nor Layton is fit to lead the country and nobody wants another election for at least two yrs.

It's not a good option as Harper will then be leading a "lame" minority gov't, but it's the best option out there
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
2,717
10
38
www.myspace.com
Well I would say democracy is an illusion right now...has been for some time...Maybe Illusion is too strong a word For Canadian politics ..Maybe Invisible is a better word to use....It will magically reapear when all this is over and we have a working majority
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Whew, that's about all I have to say to that, where do you get what you're smoking cos it seems AWESOME!!

Why is it that right wingers ALWAYS blame the left for "fear mongering" and then turn around and resort to it LARGE every time the going gets rough for them??

Dude,
My awesomeness is like majorly superior to your awsomeness, but like, your cap's locking is like totally effective.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
This topic is complete horse----

There have been a number of coalition governments in Canada; both provincially and federal. Canada's status as a democratic nation is not effected one wit by having a coalition government.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
This topic is complete horse----

There have been a number of coalition governments in Canada; both provincially and federal. Canada's status as a democratic nation is not effected one wit by having a coalition government.

No that is completely incorrect.
Please reference your statements to fact.
Any fact.

There have been exactly one Federal coalition government in Canadian history since Confederation.
It was considered a national emergency ( World War 1) and was instituted to enable the draft.
It disbanded as soon as the war ended.
It was undoubtedly democratically iffy but considering the circumstances was deemed necessary.

Provincial , municipal, bingo hall and chess club coalition governments really have nothing to do with defining systems of Federal Governance.

I stand by what I said.
You may disagree with my opinions or definitions.
Fine, prove it.
By definition as soon as a non-elected federal Government seizes power and waives all future elections.
They are non-Democratic.
By definition.
Trex

And yes, it really is a big deal.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
63
46
Newfoundland!
OK trex i think you need to calm down a bit. this hasnt happened. And by all accounts it seems fairly unlikely that it will. Also your statement "as soon as a non-elected federal government seizes power and waives all further elections.." seems to be jumping the gun a little... why do you think the coalition (which doesnt yet exist and probably never will) would waive all further elections (if it ever got to power which is not a foregone conclusion)?

It's like saying "blue was green, purple would no longer be purple". it's true, but there's no bloody point wasting your breath saying it.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
That is assuming that the NDP, Lib and Bloq triumvirate seizes control of the Federal Government of Canada.

Whether or not the GG Michelle Jean will approve it has been discussed on other threads.
I believe she will.
And at a stroke Canada will cease to be a Democracy by definition.
It will be legal and it will be constitutionally permitted but make no mistake we will cease to be a Democracy.

The definition of a Democracy is as follows.
Quote: online dictionary
“Democracy is a form of government in which power is held by people under a free electoral system.”
Quote: Webster’s
“1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections”


The coalition which will take over Canada's Government is non-elected in a leadership capacity.
They are of course elected politician's but that is not the issue.
Another point is they are suspending elections for the duration of their Governance.
They say that will be 1 1/2 years.
What happens if the extend it to 5 or 10 years?
Duration is not the issue.
Suspension of a Democratically elected Government IS the issue.

The definition of a Democratic Government is as follows:
Quote freepedia.
"Democratic Government is a government elected by the people."

The above will not apply to Canada and unfortunately we will cease to be a Democratic nation.


Will Canada's new Government be defined as seizing power via a coup d'état?
Its arguable.

Quote webanswers.
"Coup d’etat
n., pl. coups d'état or coup d'états .The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority."

It should be pointed out that in Canada's case it certainly would be a non-violent coup.
It would also be a constitutionally permitted coup d'état as versus a non constitutionally permitted one.

The media is already starting to refer to it as a coup.

L. Ian MacDonald: A very Canadian coup - Full Comment

Does this mean Canada will officially become a Banana Republic.
Ummm... maybe it does.


Future looks bleak for PM, Tories

At least thats how the Post sees it.


What kind of Government would Canada have?
I dunno; how about you pick?

Quote: Alverno college/definitions
"5. Dictatorship
A dictatorship consists of rule by one person or a group of people. Very few dictators admit they are dictators; they almost always claim to be leaders of democracies. The dictator may be one person, such as Castro in Cuba or Hitler in Germany, or a group of people, such as the Communist Party in China.

6. Democratic Republic
Usually, a "democratic republic" is not democratic and is not a republic. A government that officially calls itself a "democratic republic" is usually a dictatorship. Communist dictatorships have been especially prone to use this term. For example, the official name of North Vietnam was "The Democratic Republic of Vietnam." China uses a variant, "The People's Republic of China.""

Avoiding a free leadership election is the defining issue.
And this Bloq, NDP and Liberal triumvirate is going to avoid a leadership election at all costs.
People can argue that we just had an election, that the majority doesn't vote anyway and so on.
Doesn't matter, your either Democratic or your not.

People have criticized the Government of Venezuela led by Hugo Chavez.
The Government of Nicaragua led by Daniel Ortega.
Or perhaps the Government of Russia led by Medveddev.
But guess what?

They were all elected to the position of leadership that they hold.

Canada is about to become a new and different place.
Who knows; perhaps our new Government will decide to nationalize the media.
Create a "new" passport.
Perhaps we need to mobilize our troops into the cities.
Just temporarily, and of course just to insure law and order.
Its a slippery slope.

Trex

Parliamentary Democracy at work. You must maintain the support of the House in our system and unfortunately, Mr Harper forgot this fundamental premise.

Flaherty's brain fart to try and cut funding to the political parties probably hasd more to do with this than people are talking about.

Did not the Conservatives try to do this with the NDP a few years ago?


Looks like the kind of thing that happened during the Lester B. Pearson years.

We came out OK....and the Prime Minister earned a Nobel Prize among other things.

This is not new in Canadian politics.
 
Last edited:

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
OK trex i think you need to calm down a bit. this hasnt happened. And by all accounts it seems fairly unlikely that it will. Also your statement "as soon as a non-elected federal government seizes power and waives all further elections.." seems to be jumping the gun a little... why do you think the coalition (which doesnt yet exist and probably never will) would waive all further elections (if it ever got to power which is not a foregone conclusion)?

It's like saying "blue was green, purple would no longer be purple". it's true, but there's no bloody point wasting your breath saying it.
Hermanntrude,

I am calm.
Really I am.
I am belittling a point I guess.
But I feel it's important and would change Canada forever if it happened.
My opinion.

The coalition has stated they will rule for 1.5 years under their agreement.
There will be no election under their rule.
That was in the letter they sent to the GG and well understood.
If they were still together after 1.5 years I suppose they could reevaluate and continue on.
If an election is forced on them then they are instantly out and that is also well understood.

I appreciate and understand your position that it will not happen.

I think it will.

Trex
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
HAHAHA there since you like caps so much

What I was getting at is that your little rant was absolute HOGWASH and I don't know how you could have suggested that we are somehow on the cusp of a "1000 year reich", can you please tell me how what you posted is not over-the-top fearmongering??

If it were full of facts to disprove, maybe I would be doing that. As it is, it is nothing but lurid, fantastic fearmongering propaganda
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
4,968
36
48
Parliamentary Democracy at work. You must maintain the support of the House in our system and unfortunately, Mr Harper forgot this fundamental premise.

Flaherty's brain fart to try and cut funding to the political parties probably hasd more to do with this than people are talking about.

Did not the Conservatives try to do this with the NDP a few years ago?


Looks like the kind of thing that happened during the Lester B. Pearson years.

We came out OK....and the Prime Minister earned a Nobel Prize among other things.

This is not new in Canadian politics.

Great comment N.B:smile:
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
It something I don't understand at all. The government has lost all credibility in the House and is finished as the government. But the coalition is willing to act together to form a government as stipulated within the rules. So there is nothing illegal or undemocratic about it.
All members were elected by the public to the House.

But this is almost a gift handed to the Conservatives and they don't even have the brains to recognize it.

First off, this is a bad time to be the government. It's going to be ****ty and the government is going to get the blame regardless. The Harpercons obviously haven't a clue what to do with this growing mess. And so along comes Dion and Layton with the support of the Bloc all wanting to lay claim to the mess.

Now if Harper had a brain he would smile and let them have it. Let the fault be the Liberals and the NDP with the Blow unable to hide dirty hands. In 18 months, the coalition will have failed to resolve the crisis, or fallen apart into partisan back biting, leaving Harpercon standing there wagging his finger and saying I told ya so. Clearly the only choice for a majority government.

The biggest mistake he can make is standing in the house blathering on about fighting for Canada when they don't even have a plan to turn a failing economy around.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
With all due respect to your comment, PO & Co. are going down. I do not see the opportunity of letting a coalition take the blame.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
This topic is complete horse----

There have been a number of coalition governments in Canada; both provincially and federal. Canada's status as a democratic nation is not effected one wit by having a coalition government.

Even when the 'government' that gains the power wasn't voted in by the public?
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
WHERE does it say in any of the descriptions provided that the actual "party" has to be elected??
As stated above, the government is made up of elected representatives, in this case , were a coalition to be formed, the actual coalition would speak for, overall, more Canadians than the cons currently do- sounds like "demo kratos" to me
 

QuebecFan

New Member
Dec 2, 2008
5
1
3
MOntreal
finalement un peu de vrai démocratie..

Cette crise est probablement la meilleure chose qui puisse arriver a ce pays.
Je suis d'accord avec cette coalition et a 3 ils ne peuvent faire pire que Harper.

Bien entendu, devant l'incompétence de harper a maintenir la confiance de la chambre il ne restait plus au autre parties qua reprendre les rennes du pays.

Harper va brandir l'épouvantaille du québec et les méchants séparatistes pour faire peur a tout l'ouest canadien.
 
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scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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Quebecfan,
La courtoisie dicte que vous signalez dans votre langue maternelle et puis en anglais de sorte que tous les membres puissent comprendre ce que vous dites. Personnellement je n'ai pas un problème comme j'ai vécu presque quarante ans au Québec. Respect, éraflure.


Quebecfan,
Courtesy dictates that you post in your native language and then in English so that all members can comprehend what you are saying. Personally I do not have a problem as I lived almost fourty years in Quebec. Regards, scratch.