Atheism: The reasons for it.

[Vanni Fucci]

If your willing to admit that there is some order in the universe, and we know that nature(blind, impersonal force) causes disorder, where did the original order come from?

What I'm willing to admit is that 99.999% of the known universe is extremely hostile to life and .001% favourable to life. This leaves a lot of wasted real estate and if you are to assume that it was created by design, then you should also aknowledge that your creator is a moron and should be ashamed of such cosmic inefficiency...

Agreed. Science explains god's creation very well....except the whole marcoevolution thing.

Actually, no it doesn't...science does not support creationism in any way, and the two will be forever at odds...

It's unscrupulous IDers like you that try to hijack science and distort fact to support your thesis...but people are wise to your ruse, and hopefully this phase will soon be over...

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

But it is not correct to say that Islam is an ideology of hate. Koran, like Bible is a very amorphous book, it says contradictory things at the same time. It is upto an individual what he makes of Koran.

no the is an individual what he makes of Koran

but may the individual not know the Koran because he benighted

95. Verily! It is Allah Who causes the seed grain and the fruit stone to split and sprout. He brings forth the living from the dead, and it is He Who brings forth the dead from the living. Such is Allah, then how are you deluded away from the truth) (96. (He is the) Cleaver of the daybreak. He has appointed the night for resting, and the sun and the moon for reckoning. Such is the measuring of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.) (97. It is He Who has set the stars for you, so that you may guide your course with their help through the darkness of the land and the sea. We have (indeed) explained in detail Our Ayat for people who know.)

 

[Scott Free]

Scot Free, I don’t agree with you that Islam is an ideology of hatred. No doubt it can be used a such (but so can the Bible), but that doesn’t mean that it advocates hatred.

Both the Quran and the Bible advocate murder.

That is enough evidence for me.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Both the Quran and the Bible advocate murder.

That is enough evidence for me.

Sure they do, but they also advocate love, compassion. Mother Teresa could not have taken her inspiration from Bible if Bible were all one sided.

So I agree with you, but the picture is more complicated than that. If Mother Teresa and Savonarola both can take their inspiration from the Bible, that tells me that Bible is amorphous in nature, it advocates everything, good and evil. It is upto the individual whether to take inspiration for good deeds or evil deeds from the Bible.

 

[Vereya]

Does struggling against sin count?
:roll:

No, it actually doesn't. The whole concept of sin stems from the original sin, and as original sin is to ridiculous a concept to be taken seriously, so are its numerous consequences.

 

[Scott Free]

Sure they do, but they also advocate love, compassion. Mother Teresa could not have taken her inspiration from Bible if Bible were all one sided.

Sure, love your fellow man if he isn't gay or an apostate.

Like Hitler would say love your fellow man if he isn't a Jew.

 

[Vereya]

In response to Prax's thread on the Christian fear factor, I would like to post my own thread exploring the reasons why people accept atheism. All I want to say about the fear factor post is that although I believe its totally incorrect, I understand why such an argument is believed.

Second, there are emotional obstacles that sometimes obstruct the acceptance of christianity. Christian exclusivism, the doctrine of hell, and the hypocrisy of christians are emotional roadblocks to just about everyone. In fact, hypocrisy in the church probably repels people more than any other factor. Its sometimes said the biggest problem with christianity is christians!

There you go. You prove the correctness of Prax's post about fear. You discuss such a sinful concept as "ateism", but talking about religious beliefs you don't see farther than Christianity. Great preprogramming!

 

[Vereya]

:lol:
Christianity offers grace through faith. Unlike islam, lets say, I can't earn salvation. I only have to accept it. Its a free gift.

But to be saved, you have to follow certain rules, whether you want it or not, you have to give up the enjoyment of your body and of many naturally enjoyable things, you have to stick to subservient mentality, set rigid limits to your own inner development. To me this seems a monstrous price to pay for something that is proclaimed to be free.

 

[Vereya]

Both the Quran and the Bible advocate murder.

That is enough evidence for me.

Absolutely. Murder, intolerance, and hatred towards those of other nations and religions. This really makes me heart-sick...

 

[scratch]

Two of the main reasons that I do not believe.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Sure, love your fellow man if he isn't gay or an apostate.

Like Hitler would say love your fellow man if he isn't a Jew.

060.008

Sahih International: Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Quran Tafsir

(7. Perhaps Allah will make friendship between you and those whom you hold as enemies. And Allah has power (over all things), and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) (8. Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity


002.215

Sahih International: They ask you, [O Muْammad], what they should spend. Say, "Whatever you spend of good is [to be] for parents and relatives and orphans and the needy and the traveler. And whatever you do of good - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it."

 

[Scott Free]

YouTube - Christopher Hitchens being a BAMF.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Prophet Ibrahim

YouTube - "I Converted Because of My Hate for the Danish Cartoons"

 

[Praxius]

I have a big and good post for this thread, but the forums logged me out and then I lost it..... so I can't be bothered to write it all out again.... :evil:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I have a big and good post for this thread, but the forums logged me out and then I lost it..... so I can't be bothered to write it all out again.... :evil:

Do you write your posts in the forum box? I write mine using a word processor, and then copy and paste into the forum. That way even if something goes wrong with the forum, I still have my post.

Also, I can use all the tools available in the word processor (spell check etc.). The forum writing board is not as extensive, does not have as many features as the word processor.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sure, love your fellow man if he isn't gay or an apostate.

Like Hitler would say love your fellow man if he isn't a Jew.

Again, I agree (we are not really that far apart in our views). However, even that limited love, qualified love, conditional love is more than what many people (both religious and non religious) display.

 

[Cliffy]

People who have religious beliefs have a desperate need to defend their beliefs against those who don't because they are insecure about them. A belief system is like a life preserver thrown to a drowning person. The problem lies in those who are unwilling to let go of the preserver when they reach the shore. They stay in the water desperately clinging to the life preserver long after it has served its purpose. Or they cling to their parents beliefs because they are too lazy to take the journey themselves.
It is cruel and inhuman to teach religious beliefs to the vulnerable and timid minds of children for they have no defenses to protect themselves from such barbaric nonsense. Parents who force that crap on their kids should be publicly flogged.

 

[talloola]

People who have religious beliefs have a desperate need to defend their beliefs against those who don't because they are insecure about them. A belief system is like a life preserver thrown to a drowning person. The problem lies in those who are unwilling to let go of the preserver when they reach the shore. They stay in the water desperately clinging to the life preserver long after it has served its purpose. Or they cling to their parents beliefs because they are too lazy to take the journey themselves.
It is cruel and inhuman to teach religious beliefs to the vulnerable and timid minds of children for they have no defenses to protect themselves from such barbaric nonsense. Parents who force that crap on their kids should be publicly flogged.

Yes I agree, I have stated before on this forum, that if a small community could be formed
with many children among them, and religion or gods were never mentioned at all, and
religion did not exist where they lived, and
the children were allowed to grow up with a free mind, they would be much more open
and receptive to everyone else, without judgement, without fear, and without the obedience
that comes along with having to do what the church says.

 

[scratch]

Extremely well said.

 

[Scott Free]

I have a big and good post for this thread, but the forums logged me out and then I lost it..... so I can't be bothered to write it all out again.... :evil:

I hate that!