islam , is the rejection of any form of Atheism
The reason for it is simple.
we worship the god to win to we be in heaven
Atheism: The reasons for it.
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islam , is the rejection of any form of Atheism
The reason for it is simple.
we worship the god to win to we be in heaven
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Sahih International: Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
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Sahih International: Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
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Sahih International: He neither begets nor is born,
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Sahih International: Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
112.002
Sahih International: Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
112.003
Sahih International: He neither begets nor is born,
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Sahih International: Nor is there to Him any equivalent."
That somewhat fits the description of the universe. The lone eternal one without peers.
That somewhat fits the description of the universe. The lone eternal one without peers.
alleywayzalwayz, some of the reasons given by you do make sense (e.g. exclusivism of Christianity, hypocrisy of Christians etc.).
However, the main objection to existence of God is scientific. I like to consider myself to be the man of science. Scientifically, concept of God is meaningless.
One problem is reproducibility; the experience of God is not reproducible. An individual may pray and have a ‘God’ experience. However, if he prays at some other time, he may not have the same experience, he may not experience anything at all (Christians put this down to the possibility that second time around; his prayer may not have been sincere enough). Also, one individual may have ‘God’ experience by praying. However, another individual may pay in exactly the same manner and not experience anything. Thus I could pray until kingdom come and not experience anything. Any concept that is not reproducible is meaningless as far as science is concerned.
Another problem is that the concept of God cannot be tested scientifically. Existence of God cannot be proved or disproved scientifically. What is more, I cannot conceive of any series of experiments that will either prove or disprove existence of God.
So concept of God is meaningless as far as science is concerned, and therefore is meaningless as far as I am concerned.
However, the main objection to existence of God is scientific. I like to consider myself to be the man of science. Scientifically, concept of God is meaningless.
One problem is reproducibility; the experience of God is not reproducible. An individual may pray and have a ‘God’ experience. However, if he prays at some other time, he may not have the same experience, he may not experience anything at all (Christians put this down to the possibility that second time around; his prayer may not have been sincere enough). Also, one individual may have ‘God’ experience by praying. However, another individual may pay in exactly the same manner and not experience anything. Thus I could pray until kingdom come and not experience anything. Any concept that is not reproducible is meaningless as far as science is concerned.
Another problem is that the concept of God cannot be tested scientifically. Existence of God cannot be proved or disproved scientifically. What is more, I cannot conceive of any series of experiments that will either prove or disprove existence of God.
So concept of God is meaningless as far as science is concerned, and therefore is meaningless as far as I am concerned.
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Sahih International: Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."
Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir
(9. Say: "Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days And you set up rivals with Him That is the Lord of all that exists.'') (10. He placed therein firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance in four Days equal for all those who ask.) (11. Then He rose over (Istawa ila) the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly.'' They both said: "We come willingly.'') (12. Then He completed and finished their creation (as) seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard. Such is the decree of Him, the Almighty, the All-Knower.)
Sahih International: And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain [in faith]
Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir
(74. And (remember) when Ibrahim said to his father Azar: "Do you take idols as gods Verily, I see you and your people in manifest error.'') (75. Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he be one of those who have faith with certainty. ) (76. When the night overcame him he saw a Kawkab. He said: "This is my lord.'' But when it Afala, he said: "I like not those that set.'') (77. When he saw the moon rising up, he said: "This is my lord.'' But when it set, he said: "Unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among the misguided people.'') (78. When he saw the sun rising up, he said: "This is my lord. This is greater.'' But when it Afalat, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from all that you join as partners in worship with Allah.) (79. Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth, Hanifan, and I am not of the idolators.'')
What a pleasure and a treat to read such common sense, and a realistic approach to
life in regard to god or no god, sometimes I feel very alone in my replys, 'not right now'.
I got mad - sorry.
On other threads Islam has been clearly demonstrated as an ideology of hatred yet the advocates insist on covering that up and promoting it! I just can't help but have a horrendously outraged reaction to that.
Scot Free, I don’t agree with you that Islam is an ideology of hatred. No doubt it can be used a such (but so can the Bible), but that doesn’t mean that it advocates hatred. Like most religious books, it advocates everything. Same as Bible, Koran advocates love as well as hate, compassion as well as torture, ‘love thy neighbour’ as well as ‘kill thy neighbour’.
It is upto Christians or Muslims which interpretation they choose to adopt. Thus, mother Teresa is considered a Christian, also people like Pat Robertson (or people like MHz, or gerryh, who think it is their Christian duty to insult anybody who disagrees with them) and abortion clinic bombers are considered Christian.
Same with Muslims. Most Muslims are people just like you or me, who want nothing more that to live their life peacefully. They are tolerant of others, they show compassion here it is warranted, they are kind and considerate to others etc.
Unfortunately, there is a small minority (around 10%, but that is way too many Muslims) who subscribe to terrorist beliefs, to extreme, violent, malevolent faiths such as Wahabism.
But it is not correct to say that Islam is an ideology of hate. Koran, like Bible is a very amorphous book, it says contradictory things at the same time. It is upto an individual what he makes of Koran.
Still up to the same old tricks I see. For the above to be true then some old post should have something that indicates I promote bad language from Christians when addressing (especially) Atheists.
Please provide such a link because I am accusing you of being a big fat liar....again. Maybe you should let it go before it gets to be more than you anticipated.
Proverb:14:5: A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
Proverb:19:5: A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
Proverb:19:9: A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.
Proverb:25:18: A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.
Proverb:25:19: Confidence in an unfaithful man in time of trouble is like a broken tooth, and a foot out of joint.
The Quran and Bible both call for killing of unbelievers.
It is an inescapable reality that according to the believers their god has ordered them to do so, regardless of whatever messages of peace may be found there.
We've witnessed in other threads here people of Islam condoning the killing of apostates from Islam.
True they are likely part of the marginal group of 10% of fundamentalists Muslims, but this is what we are shown of their beliefs, and paints a pretty damn ugly picture.
Just one more reason for me to believe that it is all a crock of ****.
If their god is said to be omniscient, then he would have known that to include mesasges of hate in the scripture would have been destructive to his world and his worshippers.
Of course the Old God would have reveled in the slaughter, the New God is impotent, and the God of Islam swings both ways.
It is an inescapable reality that according to the believers their god has ordered them to do so, regardless of whatever messages of peace may be found there.
We've witnessed in other threads here people of Islam condoning the killing of apostates from Islam.
True they are likely part of the marginal group of 10% of fundamentalists Muslims, but this is what we are shown of their beliefs, and paints a pretty damn ugly picture.
Just one more reason for me to believe that it is all a crock of ****.
If their god is said to be omniscient, then he would have known that to include mesasges of hate in the scripture would have been destructive to his world and his worshippers.
Of course the Old God would have reveled in the slaughter, the New God is impotent, and the God of Islam swings both ways.
Just one more reason for me to believe that it is all a crock of ****.
Vanni, I agree with you on this. However, it is important not to paint all the Muslims or all the Christians with the same brush. There are hate mongers and good, decent people in all the religions.
Vanni, I agree with you on this. However, it is important not to paint all the Muslims or all the Christians with the same brush. There are hate mongers and good, decent people in all the religions.
Please provide such a link because I am accusing you of being a big fat liar....again.
MHz, only a liar? Surely you have accused me of much worse things than that, are you losing your touch, are you going soft? Your God will never forgive you if you don’t insult an Atheist like me at every opportunity you get.
MHz, only a liar? Surely you have accused me of much worse things than that, are you losing your touch, are you going soft? Your God will never forgive you if you don’t insult an Atheist like me at every opportunity you get.
I'm not arguing that the tooth fairy is an omnipotent, personal force, that gave us reason. So whatever reasons we have not believe in such things, like the tooth fairy, doesn't presuppose them.
If your willing to admit that there is some order in the universe, and we know that nature(blind, impersonal force) causes disorder, where did the original order come from?
Yup. :smile:
I'll try harder, I swear!
Agreed. Science explains god's creation very well....except the whole marcoevolution thing.
Hey talloola,
First of all, I would like to apologize. I didn't mean to be insulting. I should have anticipated the objection that I was accusing atheists of having a lower sense of morals. There's so much reading, debating, and posting going on, its hard for me to go into real great length, and say exactly what I mean.
Here's the truth. I know that you guys don't have lower morals than believers. In fact, I know that the same sense of right and wrong that lies in me, lies in you.
I want to explore this at length, so I'll take it to the Does God Exist? thread... later...:smile:
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And what does that tell you about the source of those things? They don't come from religious belief.
Hi Dex,
I don't want to disappoint you, but the truth is, there is a lot more to this argument, mainly being the question of mortality(as mentioned to talloola). Do I think religion is the source of morality? Not at all. Religion is man-made and has many faults. What is the source?
There is a lot to your above statement that I would like to respond to, not to mention other members statements. I was actually going to do this tonite, but alas, something has come up. I gotta log off for the nite in a few here, but rest assured, I'll be back to debate.
I'm glad to see the Does God Exist? thread is now under the philosophical sub-forum. After you mentioned it, I thought maybe we should have two threads, same topic. One for discussion on scientific discussions, the other philosophical. But this works.
Anywayz, talk to you later Dex! :smile:
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:lol::lol::lol
on't post when I'm posting!!!!:lol::lol::lol:Right. It doesn't come from religion. We're gonna debate this, but I gotta go for now, sorry!
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