Good for EnCana, it's the smart thing to do to avoid litigation and appease the Chicken Littles.
P.S. BTEX is found naturally by the way.
Apache finds massive Canadian shale-gas field
- Thread starter skookumchuck
- Start date
Good for EnCana, it's the smart thing to do to avoid litigation and appease the Chicken Littles.
P.S. BTEX is found naturally by the way.
Potable water is taboo and far too expensive.
Magnitude 3.3 earthquake felt near potash mine in Saskatchewan - 680News
Geothermal Heat Pump
Earth Loop Antifreeze
In the majority of the USA and Canada, residential geothermal heat pump earth loops must be protected from freezing. Many people that have contacted us have asked, "If I bury my earth loop deeper, will I still need to use antifreeze to protect my earth loop from freezing?" This question tells us that there is a misconception of why the earth loop is subject to freezing. If your earth loop is installed above the frost line, yes it will freeze, but even if you install your earth loop below the frost line, the fluid may still freeze. Freezing in an earth loop is caused by the geothermal heat pump taking heat from the loop fluid, not the winter air temperatures.
The more undersized a loop, the longer it takes for the earth to recharge the heat in it, as the geothermal heat pump removes the heat. We have been asked, "Can't we just design bigger earth loops, so the earth loop fluid doesn't drop below the freezing temperature?" Sure, this can keep the earth loop above freezing. However, earth loops must be designed for a reasonable payback period. If we design to keep earth loop fluid above freezing, it can require twice as much pipe in the earth loop in many geographical locations, and in some places it requires 3 or 4 times as much pipe. Since it is not cost-effective to use this much pipe, we use antifreeze to keep the fluid flowing below 32° F, instead.
What types of antifreeze can be used in geothermal earth loops?
Methanol (wood alcohol, methyl alcohol)
For years methanol was the choice for many geothermal heat pump installers. Methanol works very well because it is less expensive to buy, and flows better (has low viscosity) down to 15° F than other types of antifreeze. It also has good heat transfer ability (it holds acceptable amounts of heat, compared to water). However, methanol is extremely poisonous to humans and other animals. It evaporates quickly, and can asphyxiate a person if all of the safety precautions are not followed. Methanol is also highly flammable, and can cause an explosion.
Because of methanol's toxicity, some states in the USA have outlawed its use in earth loops buried deeper than 20 feet, and other states have outlawed its use in all earth loops, to protect the groundwater* if the loop should leak. Methanol is not our preferred antifreeze, because of the danger of fire and explosion when working with it, and because of the restrictions that have been imposed on it by many local and state health codes.
*However, research has shown that methanol does biodegrade rapidly in the natural environment; even deep below the ground.
Ethanol (denatured alcohol, ethyl alcohol)
Ethanol is another antifreeze that has been used for geothermal earth loops. It has similar characteristics to methanol as an antifreeze: it flows well, has good heat transfer, and good freeze protection at 15° F. Ethanol is also very flammable and can cause explosions and asphyxiation.
Pure ethanol (the type of alcohol that people drink) is not as toxic as methanol, but pure ethanol is too expensive to be used as an antifreeze, so denatured ethanol is used instead. These denaturing agents are generally very toxic. Ethanol can be denatured with methanol, pine-based solvent, gasoline, rubbing alcohol, or other such chemicals. Ethanol that is denatured with petroleum-based products will dissolve earth loop piping, and can't be used for earth loop antifreeze.
Some brands of ethanol-antifreeze are available that have been specifically designed for use in geothermal earth loops. They contain denaturing agents that are safe for geothermal pipe. We have used a brand called "Geosafe" (safe for pipes, but still dangerous for people), but there are others available.
Ethylene Glycol (car antifreeze)
Ethylene Glycol is a very poisonous antifreeze. It also becomes very thick and flows badly (has high viscosity) at temperatures below 35° F, and has fairly low heat transfer ability. Also, most states have prohibited its use, because of the dangers of contaminating and poisoning groundwater. We therefore do not recommend ethylene glycol be used in an earth loop.
Propylene Glycol
Propylene glycol is a non-toxic antifreeze. It is used in the food preparation industry and is considered safe*. However, it has some viscosity problems that limit its use as an antifreeze for flowing fluids. Special care must be taken when designing and calculating earth loops that will use propylene glycol, or the fluid flow will be too fast in the summer, and too slow in the winter.
Propylene glycol's low toxicity makes it the only earth loop antifreeze allowed in many states. We recommend this antifreeze, but only for earth loops that have been properly sized and designed by a professional earth loop designer.
*Propylene glycol is toxic to cats, however, so don't let them drink it.
Calcium Chloride
Calcium Chloride performs well as an antifreeze in earth loops. It is non-toxic but extremely corrosive. If this type of antifreeze is used, the geothermal heat pump's water coil heat exchanger must be cupro-nickle. Any metal fittings, pipes, or pumps must be made from brass, or better material, for corrosion protection. We also recommend this antifreeze.
Ya, so that must mean there's brackish water everywhere to tap into, or trucking in potentially billions of litres of water is always viable...:roll:
And circumstantial evidence, in quantity is good enough to convict.
The evidence is mounting.
Why don't you just tell me?
^ Derp... :roll:
There are several theories. You're the expert, why don't you tell us.
That fracturing has side affects.
Yes. Unless you have some proof that every well and every aquifer is the exact same depth that you cited.
In some cases, yes.
Let's re-examine where your train wreck started...
petros said:
If your claim is true, and it must be, you're an expert. And domestic use is static as in many of the sites in Wyoming and PA. And the only increased pressure came from water extraction for fracking.
By your logic. Fracking is to blame for methane contamination of the aquifers. Due to increased pressure from companies extracting water for the fracturing process..
I agree with you.
Nope.
You and Kakato didn't leave me any room. I think I'll hop on Ton's wagon, the ride is more smooth and the round wheels aren't falling off.
There is brackish water everywhere,if you were in the industry you would know that.
We truck in one water truck for 2 wells so it is obvious your just gleaning this info off the net because not much of it makes any sense to me.
Maybe you should start googling sites without an agenda for your info.
Because most of what you have said so far about the industry just has me shaking my head in dis-belief.
I have no idea what your going on about in most posts unless your talking about the USA.
I work in Canada,not the USA,we do things different here.
One of the reasons I said it's a waste of time arguing about this is because your sorely lacking in what is actually going on in the field.
Your posts show that right away to those of us that do work there.
Farmers are the biggest users of water,I posted the link many times,if you choose to ignore it then fine by me.
That shows an agenda if your going to ignore the facts that interfere with it.
I post lots of little bits of info hoping you will see the big picture but your like a few I have dealt with,they will break down the big picture into little ones and then attack them and meanwhile ignore what the big picture was supposed to represent in the first place.
Too bad you think this way,you will never see the big picture in your endless effort to "own" people in your mind with endless ****e from google that makes no sense at all.
I'm not trying to "own" anything here,just posting what I see with my 35 years experience in the field.
Your not going to change the world posting here on Can Con,you have to be out there doing ****e to do that.
Right now your just fear mongering.
Funny how the biggest internet experts on the oil patch have never been there.
CDN bear,you should listen to Petros,he's done field work too.
I can only shake my head at some of the stuff your going on about.
You must still be mad about my digs at Ontario! That's it.
If your pleas get ignored theres a reason for it.
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35 years in which field? Sediment pond building? Grader driving? Pole line construction? Fracking? Oil sands mining? Gamezone?
Ya gotta understand.... A man only lives so many years.....
Ya gotta understand.... A man only lives so many years.....
Test me,enough to keep me working for 35 years straight.
Dont burn any bridges and opportunities knock.
Sorry you never had that opportunity.
35 years in the energy industry,try and keep up Cliffy.
Enough years to get me an inspector job.
When I was a kid a wise old man told me to learn something new everyday and keep an open mind,I did.
You should try it sometime.
You haven't a clue of what opportunities have knocked and disability kept me from taking advantage. Your posts reveal a certain ineptness in reading simple forum posts. How ever do you correctly read rules, regulations and laws without interpreting your own spin onto them ... and your explanations are so wishy-washy and egocentric, you're lucky to have knowledgable people around to fix your errors.
BTW.... I'm not Cliffy
Hard to tell.
You both spin the same tale.
You say you have a disability? Then where are you getting your info from if not the net?
Anytime you want to actually go out and road trip a couple hundred wells let me know.
I'll change your mind about everything you think about the energy industry.
Disability came from the job ... a job that took me to many different places where I gathered a lot of information. A little about a lot. Research helps. Try it sometime instead of obsessing in your grand debunk game.
Ok,so your not in the field then,ok.
That explains a lot.
I'm only obsessed with following the rules and regs the enviro guys put out.
Your obsessed with whining that i'm doing a bad job.
Yet you have no idea what I have done.
lol!
So do I,lots here for sure! lol!
Your knowledge on the energy industry is totally pathetic.
Sorry if the truth hurts.
Lots of you jumped on the fracking bandwagon without checking out the facts.
Heh!
Really funny coming from someone who takes pictures with a camera and sees fit to dispute what experts in other fields are finding...
Most people are capable of critical thought, and can probably understand that just because there is law, doesn't mean that everything is fine and dandy. Pipelines fracture, wells explode, pharmaceutical drugs cause illness, banks cause economic collapse, spoiled food makes people sick...
When someone circles the wagon like you have and is unwilling to accept contrary evidence or explain how it could be wrong, that's going to raise all kinds of eyebrows.
Check off your boxes on those forms, everything is fine.
:lol:
Ya right,get out Tonn,do some field work,get some experience,your young,you have little field experience right?
Sorry but im not into that.
Sorry that you are,grow up.
Obviously ... or you'd have learned to listen with your mouth shut
Another clue is the constant post edit abuse....
So which water quality tests have you ran on the water samples you collect at all those wells? With the frequency you put those wells in, it's amazing you can get such quick results. Please post some pictures of your lab work.
:lol:
Lab work is lab work- samples are taken and multiple tests performed. Do the Oil and Gas Companies have a mobile van to perform tests- do they come back and perform tests on well water in the areas.
What follow up is performed - what are the standards
He has a Science degree- Do you?
I dont belong to a clique like you,your handle is a lie,you need a pack to function where as I dont.
Some of you guys and gals are the first to whine here about free speech but when someone(like me) questions your agenda on certain topics you go on the attack.
Too funny,the agenda on most topics is pretty obvious by the op posted by a member.
I love the fact that when I question anything I get a response like that from lone wolf,clearly he has some issues to deal with in his own life.
Grow up,put your hate the oil/gas/Alberta industry and maybe we can move forward to make Canada a better place,why do so many people want to hinder this?
Ya they do,and inspectors have portable soil test kits to make sure your seperating the soils right.