A new political sunrise.

[Bar Sinister]

Well, I support a different system as well.

The preferential ballot, I believe, is the system most suited to this country.........it leaves the riding system intact, but requires that each candidate command 50% support in his riding before he takes his seat.

But what the opposition to the CPC needs to understand is that under the current system, the solid majority of the Conservatives is perfectly legitimate, as such governments have always been democratically elected and perfectly legitimate for 144 years.........so to complain that the CPC has only 40% support is completely irrelevant....they have a majority in Parliament........

And a new system would require a new election for the results to be legitimate....

Let me explain. Take the typical Canadian riding, and let's pretend the Preferential Ballot system is in place...... three parties running....The CPC, the NDP, and the Liberals. So......the CPC take 42%, the NDP 34%, the Liberals 24%.......the Liberals are eliminated.

Now, the problem with the complaints about this election is that those NOT CPC assume all the Liberal voters would put the NDP as their second choice.......and that is simply not so. The division of Liberal ballots would more likely be close to down the middle, pushing the CPC over the top...........and, if extrapolated over the nation, gives the Conservatives more than 50% of the seats....

Actually, Colpy, if the same logic about keeping the plurality system was applied to other aspects of Canadian politics women would still not have the vote; we wouldn't have the secret ballot; and low income Canadians would be excluded from voting. After all this is the way the system worked for even longer than 144 years if you go back all the way to the system Canada inherited from Britain. Simply because something has been around for a long time is not enough justification if the system can be improved. Democracy has shown itself to be an evolutionary process and over time old methods of doing things give way to more democratic procedures.

I can't say I really care for the preferential ballot either. Austria and New Zealand used to have it and scrapped it as being undemocratic, primarily because it did not work the way it was supposed to. What happened in these two countries was that the various parties made cozy little deals with one another in which one party would list another party second in return for the other party reciprocating. It also made the voting so complicated that party representatives stood outside each polling station handing out slips of paper instructing voters how to properly mark their ballots. Not only that, but it sometimes led to very strange results in individual ridings; especially as this sort of system encourages the creation of fringe parties and there may be a great deal more than just three candidates in each riding.

 

[cranky]

.......I can't say I really care for the preferential ballot either. Austria and New Zealand used to have it and scrapped it as being undemocratic, primarily because it did not work the way it was supposed to. What happened in these two countries was that the various parties made cozy little deals with one another in which one party would list another party second in return for the other party reciprocating. It also made the voting so complicated that party representatives stood outside each polling station handing out slips of paper instructing voters how to properly mark their ballots. Not only that, but it sometimes led to very strange results in individual ridings; especially as this sort of system encourages the creation of fringe parties and there may be a great deal more than just three candidates in each riding.

Yes, I could see the left wing church of hate - with their Depape style of flexable ethics - strategically placing 'fringe parties' and 'independants'.

 

[Colpy]

Actually, Colpy, if the same logic about keeping the plurality system was applied to other aspects of Canadian politics women would still not have the vote; we wouldn't have the secret ballot; and low income Canadians would be excluded from voting. After all this is the way the system worked for even longer than 144 years if you go back all the way to the system Canada inherited from Britain. Simply because something has been around for a long time is not enough justification if the system can be improved. Democracy has shown itself to be an evolutionary process and over time old methods of doing things give way to more democratic procedures.

I can't say I really care for the preferential ballot either. Austria and New Zealand used to have it and scrapped it as being undemocratic, primarily because it did not work the way it was supposed to. What happened in these two countries was that the various parties made cozy little deals with one another in which one party would list another party second in return for the other party reciprocating. It also made the voting so complicated that party representatives stood outside each polling station handing out slips of paper instructing voters how to properly mark their ballots. Not only that, but it sometimes led to very strange results in individual ridings; especially as this sort of system encourages the creation of fringe parties and there may be a great deal more than just three candidates in each riding.

And the alternative?

Party lists are an insult, as far as I'm concerned I don't want the party elite deciding who will represent me.......

 

[petros]

Party lists are an insult, as far as I'm concerned I don't want the party
elite deciding who will represent me.......

I'm not too keen on partisan appointments. If you want a job with Canada serving Canadians submit your CV and I'll look it over and see if you qualify or if your CV makes it to the shredder.

 

[Bar Sinister]

And the alternative?

Party lists are an insult, as far as I'm concerned I don't want the party elite deciding who will represent me.......

Actually since the party leadership can overturn the choice of any riding; it already does. And then there is the practice of placing less well known candidates in ridings where they have little or no chance of winning and keeping the more winnable ridings for more senior party members.

Yes, I could see the left wing church of hate - with their Depape style of flexable ethics - strategically placing 'fringe parties' and 'independants'.

You will have to elaborate more on this mysterious "church of hate." Is that some sort of metaphor or does such an organization actually exist. I am equally mystified by your Depape reference. What does she have to do with this thread?

 

[Cliffy]

You will have to elaborate more on this mysterious "church of hate." Is that some sort of metaphor or does such an organization actually exist. I am equally mystified by your Depape reference. What does she have to do with this thread?

Ah, he's just cranky. Depape probably turned him down. Lad needs to get out more often.

 

[captain morgan]

Ah, he's just cranky. Depape probably turned him down. Lad needs to get out more often.

It makes me wonder if Depape had a sign prepared for her response to cranky... In fact, I have to wonder if she needed to bring it out at all or just left it in her skirt for it to be discovered?

 

[Nuggler]

Actually I wasn't making any proposal regarding the WCB one way or the other. I was just pointing out that when it comes to opting out of an institution that has served farmers for 75 years things are never quite as cut and dried as they seem. If the time has come where the WCB has outlived its usefulness, then by all means scrap it. Just keep in mind that once it is gone it may prove very difficult to reestablish it if the free market does not turn out to be as friendly to grain farmers as some think it is.

...................Given the fact that we all know the "free market" is just way friendly................or would be if it existed. not.

Them what has would still control things as they always have. Them what ain't got would bargain collectively and establish marketing boards, farmer's unions, etc. Rights soon to be abolished.

Just off topic for a sec: the Milk Marketing Board, in Canada, sells, or otherwise provides "quota" for dairy farmers and they produce milk and get paid based on that quota. That, at least provides a pretty good living for savy farmers................in Canada.

In the US...........it's a free for all, with no quotas, no guarantees, and "a man can be FREE to sell to whomever he wishes", and starve to death when the big corporate owned dairy farms drive down the price PAID for milk..........since they own enough of the industry to KEEP THE PRICE OF DAIRY PRODUCTS............high..................Don't know exactly how it works, but many erstwhile profitable family farms have bit the dust.

just sayin.

The problem is there are too many TV channels. When we were young we had no choice but watch news and politics on the tube. We couldn't just turn to something else, we had no choice but sit through all that crap to get to the one or two good shows a week.

YouTube - ‪Johnny Cash Tommy Hunter und Carter Family Medley live‬‏

What good shows did we get after sitting through an hour of Tommy Hunter??............That show, just IMHO, SUCKED big time. He had great guests, but he couldn't carry a tune in a washtub, and was a lousy geetar picker.

Gotta give the devil his due. He outlasted a whole big bunch of other shows, which says a lot about the taste of Canadians...............or me.8O...........Could it be me??? No. No way.:lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

The above is factual reality.

We can only speculate on what further changes the Harper administration will bring down the pipe.

If I was a die-hard left wing believer I would probably ask my family to place me on suicide watch.

Trex

Your political prattle indicates that you are simple minded enough to believe that you are a die hard conservative when in fact that esteemed institution was wiped out to a person by the great betrayer Lord Mackay. Ye will know them by their works and so the ancient warning goes. I don't suppose sir that you have the foggiest about the time or the space or the circumstance and certainly not the hand of your master, all that is safely hidden from the likes of you sir simply because you could not handle such fundamentals. It were here on these very pleasant shores that I lost my leftest cherry thanks to some wise ones what used to feed here. There is no left or right you giant twit. You sir are a slave of the central banks I'm a free man now myself able to leap over tall buildings and stop bullets between my teeth. Harper is a Fascist pig and a religious zealot and he will lead us to wars a plenty in the destruction of the remaining hulk of what was Canada. All that and simultaneous cataclysmic change of planetary nature. And you have hope for Harpers twisted crew of little tiny turd worshiping morons. You're wasting our time here sir, don't you have hands to shake and babies to lick somewhere in the service of your master and his paper drug. Have you got the origin of oil straight yet Trex? Anyway when things are bad being unaware is merciful, at least. I would correct the spelling but I'm wasting time on you ypu humourless person you.

 

[cranky]

Actually since the party leadership can overturn the choice of any riding; it already does. And then there is the practice of placing less well known candidates in ridings where they have little or no chance of winning and keeping the more winnable ridings for more senior party members.



You will have to elaborate more on this mysterious "church of hate." Is that some sort of metaphor or does such an organization actually exist. I am equally mystified by your Depape reference. What does she have to do with this thread?

Below is a good example of the left wing church of hate at work. He spends more time writing "You ...." and "Your..." it appears that the topic is less important than spreading the hatred and contempt for the right wing people of this forum.

Your political prattle indicates that you are simple minded enough to believe that you are a die hard conservative when in fact that esteemed institution was wiped out to a person by the great betrayer Lord Mackay. Ye will know them by their works and so the ancient warning goes. I don't suppose sir that you have the foggiest about the time or the space or the circumstance and certainly not the hand of your master, all that is safely hidden from the likes of you sir simply because you could not handle such fundamentals. It were here on these very pleasant shores that I lost my leftest cherry thanks to some wise ones what used to feed here. There is no left or right you giant twit. You sir are a slave of the central banks I'm a free man now myself able to leap over tall buildings and stop bullets between my teeth. Harper is a Fascist pig and a religious zealot and he will lead us to wars a plenty in the destruction of the remaining hulk of what was Canada. All that and simultaneous cataclysmic change of planetary nature. And you have hope for Harpers twisted crew of little tiny turd worshiping morons. You're wasting our time here sir, don't you have hands to shake and babies to lick somewhere in the service of your master and his paper drug. Have you got the origin of oil straight yet Trex? Anyway when things are bad being unaware is merciful, at least. I would correct the spelling but I'm wasting time on you ypu humourless person you.

Now, if he was to violate his personal work ethic, by perhaps typing this at work instead of at home, then I would consider that a "Depape style flexable ethic"

 

[Nuggler]

I'd criticize my party if its warranted, but support the left? Never.

Black Jack Shellac will be shaking in his boots when he hears that.:shaking2:

 

[Cliffy]

Below is a good example of the left wing church of hate at work. He spends more time writing "You ...." and "Your..." it appears that the topic is less important than spreading the hatred and contempt for the right wing people of this forum.



Now, if he was to violate his personal work ethic, by perhaps typing this at work instead of at home, then I would consider that a "Depape style flexable ethic"

And your spewing of hatred toward the left differs how?

 

[petros]

"Hey Right Ball!"

"Yes Left Ball?"

"Who is the Dink in the Middle?"

 

[cranky]

And your spewing of hatred toward the left differs how?

it differs because I attack the post not the poster.

"Hey Right Ball!"

"Yes Left Ball?"

"Who is the Dink in the Middle?"

"I don't know, but his best friend is a real _ _ _ _"

 

[GreenFish66]

Knowing as I do the leftward slant to several of the most popular posters on this site I thought I would chuck out a small dose of political reality.

What? Lefty ..No ...
I'm an Environmentally minded Social Conservative...

I root for the team that has the most of my favorite players..

 

[cranky]

I am an environmentally minded industrialist that support a socially tempered fiscally conservative government. And, if you fully understand what I just wrote, then I promise to muck it up a bit more in the future