A balanced Canadian approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[earth_as_one]

Israel has every right to defend themselves legally. What they can't do legally, regardless of the behavior of Palestinian militant groups:

1) Expropriate conquered land, evict non-Jews and build Jewish only colonies. AKA Ethnic Cleansing

2) Collectively punish 1.5 million people by interfering with humanitarian aid to artificially create famine and plague like living conditions. AKA Crime Against Humanity

3) Use people literally as human shields to block bullets and search for explosives, shoot civilians fleeing the fighting under a white flag of truce, shoot ambulances, bomb hospitals and bomb shelters, deliberately destroy civilian infrastructure for purifying water and treating sewage, deliberately raze farmland, greenhouses, and other infrastructure which supports food production.... AKA war crimes

I support arresting war criminals and people who commit crimes against humanity. These people should be held accountable for the actions. In this conflict, some war criminals are Palestinians and some are Israeli.

Canada and Canadians should not support either side's war criminals.

 

[MHz]

Israel has every right to defend themselves legally.

Why not use the court they are promoting Lebanon use when a person from their Nation gets killed? If Hamas firing into Israel is a war-crime (as defined by UN war crimes documents) then taking them to court is the 'civilized' thing to do. If Hamas is firing in the south then that would seem to mean they are avoiding civilians if the south is has fewer civilians (per sq km). A court case would be needed to determine who 'owns' the land (possession didn't help Saddam and the same rules have been in force the whole time), if the rockets have been landing in Gaza 1947 then any Israeli living on that area is in an illegal settlement to begin with.

Does Israel supply a map of all the places not to target?

 

[CDNBear]

Israel has every right to defend themselves legally. What they can't do legally, regardless of the behavior of Palestinian militant groups:

1) Expropriate conquered land.

Can you show me historical precedent, that supports that opinion?

2) Collectively punish 1.5 million people by interfering with humanitarian aid to artificially create famine and plague like living conditions.

How exactly are they doing that, when Gaza is exporting food?

3) Use people literally as human shields to block bullets and search for explosives, shoot civilians fleeing the fighting under a white flag of truce, shoot ambulances, bomb hospitals and bomb shelters, deliberately destroy civilian infrastructure for purifying water and treating sewage, deliberately raze farmland, greenhouses, and other infrastructure which supports food production....

Goldstone has already admitted that Israel is trying those accused of war crimes.

So why are you back to condemning the whole of Israel again?

I support arresting war criminals and people who commit crimes against humanity. These people should be held accountable for the actions. In this conflict, some war criminals are Palestinians and some are Israeli.

But the bulk of your condemnation, falls on Israel. Can you explain why?

Canada and Canadians should not support either side's war criminals.

I agree, which is why I support Israel, who actually tries criminals. While Hamas celebrates them.

It is also why I thoroughly believe that one someone says that Hamas is more honest, they are supporting war crimes, crimes against humanity, and a neo Nazi regime.

 

[MHz]

I agree, which is why I support Israel, who actually tries criminals. While Hamas celebrates them.

If you are an Israeli and the victim is not and the court is in Israel it is a catch and release program. Is there a chart that would show how many Palestinians are in Israeli jails without a clear conviction putting them there, now how many Israeli's are in Palestinian jails in the same position (no trial and no charges even being laid). "neo Nazi regime", they were the ones on the outside of the camp fences, that hardly applies to any Palestinian.
Would you like a review of how a few Jews fought back at the Nazis and even Jewish collaborators in WWII Poland?
There was a movie out recently that is supposed to be close to historical fact.

 

[CDNBear]

If you are an Israeli and the victim is not and the court is in Israel it is a catch and release program. Is there a chart that would show how many Palestinians are in Israeli jails without a clear conviction putting them there, now how many Israeli's are in Palestinian jails in the same position (no trial and no charges even being laid).

Yes Mhz, I'm well aware that you think two wrongs make a right.

 

[MHz]

Tit for tat is the Israeli way, retaliation rather than negotiation. That is how morally bankrupt nations operate.
Israel is far from being the only nation that takes that stance.

 

[CDNBear]

Tit for tat is the Israeli way, retaliation rather than negotiation.

Israel doesn't stand alone there.

That is how morally bankrupt nations operate.

Is Palestine morally bankrupt?

Israel is far from being the only nation that takes that stance.

I agree.

 

[jgarden]

Islam is the world's second largest religion after Christianity. According to a 2009 demographic study, Islam has 1.57 billion adherents, making up 23% of the world population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

Comparison of the changes in percentages of the main religious group in Israel between the years 1949-2008

In 2010, Israel's population was an estimated 7.6 million, of whom 5,776,500 are Jews.
As of 2008, Arab citizens of Israel comprise just under 20% of the country's total population


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

I'm not for abandoning Israel but by giving it unconditional support, we are effectively alienating appoximately 25% of the world's population!

 

[YukonJack]

Tit for tat is the Israeli way, retaliation rather than negotiation. That is how morally bankrupt nations operate.
Israel is far from being the only nation that takes that stance.

History shows that the only negotiation the Palestinians are interested in is the extermination of Israel.

 

[MHz]

History shows that the only negotiation the Palestinians are interested in is the extermination of Israel.

So if they have no case why not let them have their day in (international) court and give them somebody better than a public defender. If they can get UN 181 repealed they will be due a whole lot of rent money (rather than exiling the Jews who are there now). With in return of all Arab refugees it would be an Arab majority running the Gov. Gaza might get something other than bombs.

List some of the things in UN 181 (that we signed as a nation) that have been followed and then tell me why Arabs wouldn't want the whole deal revoked and lots of money as compensation. (over and above the past due 'rent')

Tell me there wasn't a desire (and probably some real attempts in the courts) to move some Reservations after mineral wealth was found on the lands they were left with?

Israel doesn't stand alone there.

Is Palestine morally bankrupt?

I agree.

No nation does, some are just more consistently bad than others. The bigger the stick a nation has the less they should use it (if they expect a true and lasting peace in their lives.

When firing rockets yes, when being denied the right to govern themselves without interference from any outside nation then the other side is the one in error. In the Hatfields vs McCoy syndrome it was Israel coming into a foreign land with clubs raised rather than trainloads of money for the locals as compensation. Plane and simple, the plan got changed brom buying the land to stealing it through violence and intimidation. As directed by their bosses, if they didn't do it that way the promised homeland would vanish by desire of the Rothschild and you can bet that would have happened just like they desired.

 

[CDNBear]

...when being denied the right to govern themselves ...

But you've said Hamas was a duly elected government.

 

[MHz]

Does Israel (and the US) allow them to Govern???

 

[CDNBear]

Does Israel (and the US) allow them to Govern???

Yes.

 

[MHz]

Take that boot off their throat and let them answer the question.
The term blockade ruins the chances of that statement being accepted as being the whole truth in the matter.

If nothing new, ...... later.

 

[CDNBear]

Take that boot off their throat and let them answer the question.
The term blockade ruins the chances of that statement being accepted as being the whole truth in the matter.

If nothing new, ...... later.

What does any of that have to do with the fact that Hamas is, according to you, the duly elected gov't, in Gaza?

 

[Colpy]

The term of the Palestinian Parliament elected in 2006 ended in 2010.

That's the great thing about electing lunatic Islamists: you only have to do it once.

Abbas' term ran out in 2009, and he still serves, but the PA wants new elections over both the West Bank and Gaza. The people have come out in Gaza in support of re-unification and new elections.

The response by Hamas was to launch sustained attacks on Israel.

Right now there is NO legitimate elected gov't in the PA. Full stop.

This is solely because of Hamas.

 

[MHz]

Thanks for solving why Libya was invaded, lack of formal elections. Did I forget anybody?? Kuwait, Saudi, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen??
At that rate Hamas is die for invasion in only OMG, .... 40 years.
Getting voted in is a guarantee that you get put on an Israeli kill list, are you really that ****ing stupid???

 

[CDNBear]

are you really that ****ing stupid???

No, are you?

There's a common trend to who Israel takes issue with.

Having a un/democratically elected/imposed, dictatorship/gov't, isn't it.

 

[taxslave]

I didn't say it would be easy, but I believe the majority on both sides would support it.

The majority might support it but would the ruling class (theocrats) on either side? The real problem is we have a bunch of little kids arguing who has the better religion. And various other nations around the world supplying weapons like it is one big test range.

 

[MHz]

Seems to me cast lead was on Hamas the elected Gov. With no elections the everybody now is a civilian and if the are doing duties that used to belong to an elected or hired official then it is donating your time to the community. Talk of forming a election has been put off until their safety can be implemented. Works for me, subject to change, is interfering with an election a war-crime to be added to the list that has yet to be acted on.

No, are you?

There's a common trend to who Israel takes issue with.

Having a un/democratically elected/imposed, dictatorship/gov't, isn't it.

Right after they speed-dialed 50,000 mercs to help kill Libyan civilians.