A balanced Canadian approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[jgarden]

When you're portraying yourself to the world as a small, innocent "victim" surrounded by a sea of ravenous Arab "predators," one might have hoped that Israel would have emerged as a leader in championing the causes of other "victims" - like the "blacks" in South Africa."

Instead, she chose to befriend and provide South Africa's "predators" with military weapons (for a price) - at the expense of that nation's "innocent victims."

Israel can't have it both ways - she can't play the "victim" card while quietly profiting from supplying weapons to the world's "predators."

 

[CDNBear]

When you're portraying yourself to the world as a small, innocent victim surrounded by a sea of Arab "bullies," one might have hoped that Israel would have emerged as a leader in championing the causes of the "underdog" - like the "blacks" in South Africa."

I agree. But then again, I can only imagine how we would all turn out, if we were attacked on our birthdays. I'm pretty sure, I'd eb pretty ugly and cynical.

Instead, she knowingly "balanced the books" at their expense of the "innocent victims" in South Africa and chose to befriend and provide the "bullies" with weapons - for a price!

It's called trade. The Russians do it, the US does it, Canada does it.

Money makes the world go round and politics makes strange bed fellows.

When the health and welfare of my family comes into question, I would make deals with devils to.

Israel can't have it both ways - she can't play the "victim" card while quietly profiting from supplying weapons to the world's "bullies."

You forgot to put that in the past tense.

 

[MHz]

I'm more than a little sure that Canada would have voted no to a portion of our country being siphoned off by the signatures of a few people who may not have even seen the land. Anyway, if I find something new I'll post it, why so reluctant to answer the question on who 'all' means? Now it's two question, I thought you didn't like avoidance, or is that only when you are holding the advantage? Now it's 3.

I agree. But then again, I can only imagine how we would all turn out, if we were attacked on our birthdays. I'm pretty sure, I'd eb pretty ugly and cynical.

Are you saying you would tolerate it on any other day?

You forgot to put that in the past tense.

The mercs to Libya were quite recent

 

[CDNBear]

why so reluctant to answer the question on who 'all' means?

What part of "all" didn't you understand?

Now it's two question, I thought you didn't like avoidance, or is that only when you are holding the advantage? Now it's 3.

If I missed a question, by all means show me where. Your posts are so scatterbrained, with poor punctuation, it's hard to tell if you're asking a question or making a statement, hence...

Is there a question or a point in that? Can you clarify what it is you're try to convey?

Are you saying you would tolerate it on any other day?

Are you saying you didn't understand the inference?

The mercs to Libya were quite recent

Yes, your point?

 

[MHz]

What part of "all" didn't you understand?

If I missed a question, by all means show me where. Your posts are so scatterbrained, with poor punctuation, it's hard to tell if you're asking a question or making a statement, hence...

Are you saying you didn't understand the inference?

Yes, your point?

Rather than let you rack up a few pages of posts when you typed "its neighbours..." who did it include and who did it exclude? Do this one question and forget the rest.

 

[CDNBear]

Do this one question and forget the rest.

The rest?

 

[MHz]

What is a 'balanced Canadian' anyway, somebody straddling the fence on any/all issues?? (new tactic) Don't answer that question whatever you do.

 

[CDNBear]

What is a 'balanced Canadian' anyway, somebody straddling the fence on any/all issues??

I'm not on the fence.

(new tactic) Don't answer that question whatever you do.

Not a new tactic, it's the same position I've had all along.

And I answered the only question you asked.

 

[ironsides]

Israel has every right to defend themselves legally. What they can't do legally, regardless of the behavior of Palestinian militant groups:

1) Expropriate conquered land, evict non-Jews and build Jewish only colonies. AKA Ethnic Cleansing

2) Collectively punish 1.5 million people by interfering with humanitarian aid to artificially create famine and plague like living conditions. AKA Crime Against Humanity


3) Use people literally as human shields to block bullets and search for explosives, shoot civilians fleeing the fighting under a white flag of truce, shoot ambulances, bomb hospitals and bomb shelters, deliberately destroy civilian infrastructure for purifying water and treating sewage, deliberately raze farmland, greenhouses, and other infrastructure which supports food production.... AKA war crimes

I support arresting war criminals and people who commit crimes against humanity. These people should be held accountable for the actions. In this conflict, some war criminals are Palestinians and some are Israeli.

Canada and Canadians should not support either side's war criminals.

When 1.5 million people support aggression against you, you have every right to do what ever it takes to insure your safety and security. Covers everything you said in one statement. As for Canada, what right do you have saying what Canadians should or should not do, you do not like it fine, we get it.

Hamas must be the dumbest org. around, they are asking Israel to stop shooting and they will (maybe). They started this latest round by destroying a school bus as well as random targets. Shooting into a low population does not mean anything, they must stop all shooting.

 

[MHz]

Let them move it ahead in the courts then, even the US Constitution allows for taking up arms if attempts at civil negations fail to move forward. All places except Bahrain are getting luke-warm support from the west as far as free democracy where the voters put in who they want based on their political stance. The tow rope model expired when people got informed on how shafted they were. They still have a chance to change, thew west will turn cannibal before she could break free.Having a naval base on your land means all civilians (and collaborators) are expendable.

 

[Colpy]

Israel has every right to defend themselves legally. What they can't do legally, regardless of the behavior of Palestinian militant groups:

1) Expropriate conquered land, evict non-Jews and build Jewish only colonies. AKA Ethnic Cleansing

2) Collectively punish 1.5 million people by interfering with humanitarian aid to artificially create famine and plague like living conditions. AKA Crime Against Humanity

3) Use people literally as human shields to block bullets and search for explosives, shoot civilians fleeing the fighting under a white flag of truce, shoot ambulances, bomb hospitals and bomb shelters, deliberately destroy civilian infrastructure for purifying water and treating sewage, deliberately raze farmland, greenhouses, and other infrastructure which supports food production.... AKA war crimes

I support arresting war criminals and people who commit crimes against humanity. These people should be held accountable for the actions. In this conflict, some war criminals are Palestinians and some are Israeli.

Canada and Canadians should not support either side's war criminals.

You need to realize that International Law is a joke, beneath the consideration of the sane.

As for your three examples, you get partial points on number one. I agree that Jewish settlements in the West Bank are a needless provocation........that's it. To call this "Ethnic Cleansing" is, of course, beyond the pale.....ethnic cleansing suggests mass murder and genocide, as you are well aware. So, for gross exaggeration and promotion of Jew-hatred, you lose your partial points.

As for the second accusation, it is ludicrous. Israel controls access to Gaza to prevent the import of weapons......you know, the kind of missiles your heroes in Hamas fire at school buses. There certainly is no "famine and plaque-like conditions". Your ability to ignore the facts is outrageous. The average life-expectancy in Gaza is 73.9 years...........a full 5 years LONGER than the world average. That makes your claims of conditions in Gaza completely ludicrous. Gaza Strip Life expectancy at birth - Demographics

BTW, Life expectancy in other Arab States surrounding Israel..... Egypt 71.3, Jordan 72.5, Syria 74.1, Lebanon 72.0 ....In other words, you are obviously full of it. List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd subtract points, but nothing from nothing is......nothing.

Goldstone was wrong. Say it. Goldstone was wrong......he has retracted. The DEFENSIVE Israeli attacks of Operation Cast Lead were carried out in a way that took extreme care not to unduly harm civilians. Of 1,168 killed. approximately 1000 were armed militants. Yes, I've changed my estimates....I used to use the 1400 killed, with about 700 militants......the actual figures admitted to by Hamas......but you know, it is funny. I get tired of being lied to, treated like a complete idiot, and propagandized to no end. In short, Israel time and time and time again has proven to be a MUCH superior source of information....so I'll trust the guys that have been repeatedly vetted, after the Jenin "massacres", after the "massacre of innocents" on the high seas, and after the Goldstone Report, just for starters.

Every time, Israel vindicated.

Every time, the left, the Jew-hating "useful idiots" (that would be you), and their Palestinian buddies shown to be liars.

So, now I take completely the Israeli line, as I am smart enough to get tired of being lied to and used as a patsy.

NO WAR CRIMES WERE COMMITTED by Israel.

I am proud Canada stands with free democratic Israel against the forces of medieval hatred.

Vote Conservative.

 

[MHz]

You need to ...........

read the title of the thread. Unlike Bear you know which side of the fence has the butter. At some point can we add a 'Sir' to your title so everybody knows where you are coming from. Up to those 3 words you were a balanced person, in a manner of speaking.

 

[CDNBear]

You need to realize that International Law is a joke...

If I may be so bold as to correct one small problem with your post, of which, is bang on the money, for the most part.

It isn't international law that's the joke, it's that international law is being re-interpreted by groups like AI, HRW, and the Red Cross, that is where most of the asshats get spoon fed their silly notions.

It is the human rights groups, that are the joke, their useful idiots are the punchline.

And I hope i did not offend you, by correcting that one small issue.

Unlike Bear you know which side of the fence has the butter.

just because objectivity is as foreign to you as the smell of moon dust, doesn't mean I'm sitting on the fence.

But by all means, if it makes you feel good, run with it.

 

[ironsides]

Tit for tat is the Israeli way, retaliation rather than negotiation. That is how morally bankrupt nations operate.
Israel is far from being the only nation that takes that stance.

How do you negotiate with a group that will not talk to you except with rockets? Israel is negotiating in the only way Hamas seems to understand.

 

[MHz]

BTW, Life expectancy in other Arab States surrounding Israel..... Egypt 71.3, Jordan 72.5, Syria 74.1, Lebanon 72.0 ....In other words, you are obviously full of it. List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Goldstone was wrong. Say it. Goldstone was wrong......he has retracted. The DEFENSIVE Israeli attacks of Operation Cast Lead were carried out in a way that took extreme care not to unduly harm civilians. Of 1,168 killed. approximately 1000 were armed militants. Yes, I've changed my estimates....I used to use the 1400 killed, with about 700 militants......the actual figures admitted to by Hamas......but you know, it is funny. I get tired of being lied to, treated like a complete idiot, and propagandized to no end. In short, Israel time and time and time again has proven to be a MUCH superior source of information....so I'll trust the guys that have been repeatedly vetted, after the Jenin "massacres", after the "massacre of innocents" on the high seas, and after the Goldstone Report, just for starters.


So, now I take completely the Israeli line, as I am smart enough to get tired of being lied to and used as a patsy.

Where did all the old people go? Long time dead every one? or in exile.

Age structure:
0-14 years: 43.9% (male 374,110/female 354,088)
15-64 years: 53.5% (male 453,253/female 432,855)
65 years and over: 2.6% (male 17,326/female 25,523) (2011 est.)

Yes that list was woefully short of being a complete list. Taking up their way of doing a partial list of banned items (short one page list) and the official book that has several 100 pages in it.

You always did swallow their first version hook-line-&-sinker, other than that it was a balanced report from somebody with both feet planted on terra-not-firma.

How do you negotiate with a group that will not talk to you except with rockets? Israel is negotiating in the only way Hamas seems to understand.

I don't think making small talk while reloading is really negotiating in/at it's most sincere mode.

 

[CDNBear]

You always did swallow their first version hook-line-&-sinker...

That was you, stop projecting. We fought you and EA0 all the way.

...other than that it was a balanced report from somebody with both feet planted on terra-not-firma.

That's not what you were saying when you were saying then, lol. When th ereport came out, he was your hero.

I don't think making small talk while reloading is really negotiating at it's most sincere mode.

Hamas does.

 

[MHz]

just because objectivity is as foreign to you as the smell of moon dust, doesn't mean I'm sitting on the fence.

It wasn't an insult, if anybody is riding the fence on this topic, it's not a big deal and the reason could be as simple as not being sure they have all the info. For the ones who have enough that takes them off the fence, that is not good or bad by itself. Being on the fence should be every-bodies position on any topic that comes up as being 'new'. 9/11 has been talked about for 10 years so there should be very few 'balanced opinions' most/all should have their biases in place and certain things (proofs) will stand out and some conflicts will be minimized as much as possible (rather than fully explored to eliminate any/all doubts), again that is neither goo/bad by itself.

Colpy seemed to say now that he believes the Golstone was bogus in any/all way then he gives Israel an open-ended support no matter if they are 'justified or not'. I see that as being a tad dangerous considering this was not the only incident in the last 60 years, in which they have already had free reign to do whatever it is they want, peace was not one of those goals. This isn't a case of the Rothschild plan getting them in the door and the rest is up to them.

 

[CDNBear]

It wasn't an insult...

I wasn't insulted, even when you tried to use it as an insult.

And my opinion on why you think I'm on the fence, still stands.

Colpy seemed to say now that he believes the Golstone was bogus in any/all way then he gives Israel an open-ended support no matter if they are 'justified or not'.

I suggest you reread his post.

This isn't a case of the Rothschild plan getting them in the door and the rest is up to them.

And on that note, we come to the conclusion of your semi rational participation.

 

[MHz]

We fought you and EA0 all the way.

That's not what you were saying when you were saying then, lol. When the report came out, he was your hero.

Hamas does.

Compared to Gaza you did ****, neither did I.
I would have never read about the four-mill incident, it was great insight to why the UN doesn't function very well. It shows it doesn't matter who you kill or how many, as long as you do your investigation (if even requested to do so) all you have to do is cite something that can be as bogus as possible and it has to be accepted, plain and simple. Might as well make it a war crime if you resist a brutal occupation.

I was hoping to see the UN do the investigation, like the court doing the STL, isn't that where Israel should be taking their complains to, nobody would veto them so they could pound Gaza with 'official' UN approval. How many people jump the fence when it comes to the UN being a worthwhile body. Gulf 1 &2 and Afghanistan and sanctions again a crime-less Iran made her worthwhile, the rest of the time powerless despite the scale of abuse.

It doesn't take long to pick up a stick or stone, nor do they yet make a semi-auto slingshot (at least I hope not )

I suggest you reread his post.

I suggest you wait for his reply.

 

[CDNBear]

Compared to Gaza you did ****, neither did I.

What the hell does that pertain to?

I suggest you wait for his reply.

Fair enough, but I bet he says the same thing.