9-11-ten yrs Later

Ocean Breeze

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Just some data I read, no personal experience, well other than a few bouts with some black whiskey some decades back.


No offense but can you supply a link as I don't trust everything you post.


LOL.........good one. Thanks for the giggle.


Absolutely Spot on.

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Imperial Delusions: Ignoring the Lessons of 9/11

by Robert Jensen
Ten years ago, critics of America’s mad rush to war were right, but it didn’t matter.

Within hours after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, it was clear that political leaders were going to use the attacks to justify war in Central Asia and the Middle East. And within hours, those of us critical of that policy began to offer principled and practical arguments against aggressive war as a response to the crimes.

It didn’t matter because neither the public nor policymakers were interested in principled or practical arguments. People wanted revenge, and the policymakers seized the opportunity to use U.S. military power. Critical thinking became a mark not of conscientious citizenship but of dangerous disloyalty.

We were right, but the wars came.

The destructive capacity of the U.S. military meant quick “victories” that just as quickly proved illusory. As the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq dragged on, it became clearer that the position staked out by early opponents was correct -- the wars not only were illegal (conforming to neither international nor constitutional law) and immoral (fought in ways that guaranteed large-scale civilian casualties and displacement), but a failure on any pragmatic criteria. The U.S. military has killed some of the people who were targeting the United States and destroyed some of their infrastructure and organization, but a decade later we are weaker and our sense of safety more fragile. The ability to dominate militarily proved to be both inadequate and transitory, as predicted.

Ten years later, we are still right and it still doesn’t matter.

There’s a simple reason for this: Empires rarely learn in time, because power tends to dull people’s capacity for critical self-reflection. While ascending to power, empires believe themselves to be invincible. While declining in power, they cling desperately to old myths of remembered glory.


Imperial Delusions: Ignoring the Lessons of 9/11 | Common Dreams


When one reads something like the above article.........one cannot help but feel a surge of hope that such intelligent assessments will eventually have impact.

what is really insane..........after all that US killing..........OBL still "won" Killing him will not change that. What he won is in creating a mindset in the US that is completely unamerican. Wanting revenge so bad that they were seathing......they lost sense of who they are and what they had come to represent to the world. (progress, ideals, humanism. scientific advances, space exploration. ) Now......it is broke. Can't meet its financial obligations. Has lost its credit rating and owes its body and soul to China and others that hold the chips. No more space program. No more medical / scientific findings that impact qualtiy of care. and life. Poverty levels are at an all time high. There is virtually no middle class left. The american "dream" was just that. A dream and as fickle as any dream one wants to describe. It is turning into a nightmare for many who can't keep up the lifestyle they thought they were entitled to and lived by the I want NOW policy .
 

JLM

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9/11: Al Qaeda's Project for Ending the American Century Succeeded

by Jim Lobe
WASHINGTON - A decade after its spectacular Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York City's twin World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon and despite the killing earlier this year of its charismatic leader, Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda appears to have largely succeeded in its hopes of accelerating the decline of U.S. global power, if not bringing it to the brink of collapse.
Since 9/11, the United States' global standing has plunged dramatically -- a decline largely fueled by its alienating and costly "war on terror". (A. Golden/eyewash design) That appears to be the strong consensus of the foreign-policy elite which, with only a few exceptions, believes that the administration of President George W. Bush badly "over-reacted" to the attacks and that that over-reaction continues to this day.


9/11: Al Qaeda's Project for Ending the American Century Succeeded | Common Dreams

.........agree with it or not. These are facts that few are able to face and consider.

The part I question is that bush "over reacted". IF it were that simple (and it might have been considering the simplicity of the mind at work )..... but do not think it is. He was / is a con . He recognized an opportunity when he and his co hort Cheney saw one. Cheney probably saw it first and posed it to bush in a way that would appeal to that over inflated swaggering ego. The rest is history. Then the bush/ cheney engine of wars and destruction took momentum. Ten yrs later.....it has not stopped.




what level of IQ is required for folks to stay on topic and carry on a sensible. reasonable conversation/ discussion??

j'st askin'

That's the problem, intelligent and sensible are two different things.
 

EagleSmack

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lol I was going by this part of your post which has nothing to do with the other part of your post, sorry for your confusion, "Whatever turns you on is none of my business."



Quote: Originally Posted by Goober
He has huge arms - Would that be length or circumference
Take your pick, I would say width but ES would just call that being silly.- MHz


There was no confusion on my part. Nice try though
 

CDNBear

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Ontario

Ocean Breeze

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9/12 and the 'War on Terror'

The events of 9/11 marked the beginning of what would become a decade of war.

9/11 marked the beginning of what would become a decade of war.
On September 12, America awoke to the world's sympathy; an unrivalled opportunity to transform the world for the better, but all Washington wanted was retribution.
Just as Osama bin Laden had hoped, a series of mismanaged and misconceived wars in the Muslim world ensued. Wars that have bankrupt America financially, militarily and perhaps most detrimentally, in its global standing.

Ten years on many questions remain unanswered. Were the attacks of September 11 a case of blowback, or, as President Bush professed, 'a hatred of Western freedoms'? And why, if the hijackers came from friendly Gulf countries, did the US launch a war against Iraq?
Was the global 'war on terror' a cynical pretext for neocon policy hawks and the vested interests of the military industrial complex; or a war of necessity against a new type of global enemy?

Has the killing of Osama bin Laden meant the death of al-Qaeda, or was any hope of claiming that victory superseded by the Arab Spring?

9/12 and the 'War on Terror' | Common Dreams


finally, some real questions are being asked. It will probably take another decade or so for answers to begin to trickle in.

that "hatred of western freedoms " as a motive is enough to make one hurl. Hatred of how the "west" (primarily the US) has treated that region and its people makes more sense. seems even the west hates their freedoms as gradually they are being removed in the name of "anti terrorism" or national security.
 

CDNBear

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Do you read what you post?

Or are you triggered to post stuff on the merits of the title alone?

Yes, history will say that of Churchill, who in 1946 delivered his "Iron Curtain" speech in Fulton, Mo., to decry Stalin’s persecution of that half of Europe into which Churchill had welcomed the monster.
Churchill welcomed Stalin into Berlin?

You do know that event has been recorded in history as a double cross right?

Initially, Bush handled it masterfully. With his nation behind him, in three months, he effected the overthrow of the Taliban who had given sanctuary to Osama bin Laden and had al-Qaida on the run.

Since you posted this piece, you support its message?

I could have swore you held a different view, non?
 

Ocean Breeze

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Wars.......oh those wars that never end.

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A Decade of War: Charting the Destruction

by Jason Ditz, September 09, 2011
| Print This | Share This | Antiwar Forum
Wired Magazine’s Danger Room has an excellent collection of colorful, easy-to-read graphs detailing what the past decade of war has meant. Year by year, we see military spending rising, more troops, more drones, more wiretap orders.
Click here to see an ugly decade laid out before you at Wired.

A Decade of War: Charting the Destruction -- News from Antiwar.com

Overkill to a terrorist attack?? or was the plan for these wars in place as soon as this bunch of neocons took office??

Seems the UK had a terror attack. Spain did too. Neither of them went psychotic and into overkll .......they treated the attacks as the crime that they were......

Just because the ones on the US were distinctly dramatic and sensational.....does not justify the response the US came up with. One radical group terrorizing another . and vice versa. NO one wins in that kind of situation.

Isn't this what some of us have been saying??

Al-Qaeda’s Project for Ending the American Century Largely Succeeded
by Jim Lobe, September 10, 2011

A decade after its spectacular Sep. 11, 2001 attacks on New York City’s twin World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon and despite the killing earlier this year of its charismatic leader, Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda appears to have largely succeeded in its hopes of accelerating the decline of U.S. global power, if not bringing it to the brink of collapse.
That appears to be the strong consensus of the foreign-policy elite which, with only a few exceptions, believes that the administration of President George W. Bush badly "overreacted" to the attacks and that that overreaction continues to this day.
That overreaction was driven in major part by a close-knit group of neoconservatives and other hawks who seized control of Bush’s foreign policy even before the dust had settled over Lower Manhattan and set it on a radical course designed to consolidate Washington’s dominance of the Greater Middle East and "shock and awe" any aspiring global or regional rival powers into acquiescing to a "unipolar" world.

Al-Qaeda’s Project for Ending the American Century Largely Succeeded by Jim Lobe -- Antiwar.com
 

CDNBear

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Overkill to a terrorist attack?? or was the plan for these wars in place as soon as this bunch of neocons took office??
So which is it, Bush couldn't find his ass with a map, a flashlight and the help of a three dollar hooker?

Or he's an evil genius?

You can't have it both ways.

Seems the UK had a terror attack. Spain did too. Neither of them went psychotic and into overkll .......they treated the attacks as the crime that they were......
They didn't lose 3000 people in one shot.

Isn't this what some of us have been saying??
No.
LOL.
 

Goober

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9/11: Al Qaeda's Project for Ending the American Century Succeeded

by Jim Lobe
WASHINGTON - A decade after its spectacular Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York City's twin World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon and despite the killing earlier this year of its charismatic leader, Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda appears to have largely succeeded in its hopes of accelerating the decline of U.S. global power, if not bringing it to the brink of collapse.
Since 9/11, the United States' global standing has plunged dramatically -- a decline largely fueled by its alienating and costly "war on terror". (A. Golden/eyewash design) That appears to be the strong consensus of the foreign-policy elite which, with only a few exceptions, believes that the administration of President George W. Bush badly "over-reacted" to the attacks and that that over-reaction continues to this day.


9/11: Al Qaeda's Project for Ending the American Century Succeeded | Common Dreams

.........agree with it or not. These are facts that few are able to face and consider.

The part I question is that bush "over reacted". IF it were that simple (and it might have been considering the simplicity of the mind at work )..... but do not think it is. He was / is a con . He recognized an opportunity when he and his co hort Cheney saw one. Cheney probably saw it first and posed it to bush in a way that would appeal to that over inflated swaggering ego. The rest is history. Then the bush/ cheney engine of wars and destruction took momentum. Ten yrs later.....it has not stopped.




what level of IQ is required for folks to stay on topic and carry on a sensible. reasonable conversation/ discussion??

j'st askin'

Single digits - Do you meet the standard that has been set by yourself?
 

Ocean Breeze

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9/11 and the Imperial Mentality

Looking Back on 9/11 a Decade Later


9/11 and the Imperial Mentality | Common Dreams

.....How the neocons of the day fullfilled many of OBL's objectives by walking (warring) right into his "trap" For some reason........maybe blinded by their own need to show action and revenge ....they did not see how they played into his hand.

Sadly , many still don't. and will not.:-(
 

EagleSmack

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You're sure about that are you?

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack
I Whatever turns you on is none of my business.
See there is a God. (MHz)

But you're leaving out the whole first part because you look like a moron if you put it in..

Sorry that you were unable to follow along.

.....How the neocons of the day fullfilled many of OBL's objectives by walking (warring) right into his "trap" For some reason........maybe blinded by their own need to show action and revenge ....they did not see how they played into his hand.

Unfortunately we couldn't see how our Navy SEALs bullets played into his brain.

Sadly , many still don't. and will not.:-(

That is the sad part. All we have is animations. :(
 

Ocean Breeze

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The 10 Worst Post-9/11 Military Contracting Boondoggles



Since 9/11, America's wars haven't brought victories, but have spawned countless scandals, scams and boondoggles. Here are the 10 worst.

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The 10 Worst Post-9/11 Military Contracting Boondoggles | | AlterNet


The cost in money and lives is beyond reason. Maybe we should ask the BUSH/CHENEY gang: was it worth it and who benefitted the most from their "policies"??
 

DaSleeper

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The 10 Worst Post-9/11 Military Contracting Boondoggles



Since 9/11, America's wars haven't brought victories, but have spawned countless scandals, scams and boondoggles. Here are the 10 worst.

*********

The 10 Worst Post-9/11 Military Contracting Boondoggles | | AlterNet


The cost in money and lives is beyond reason. Maybe we should ask the BUSH/CHENEY gang: was it worth it and who benefitted the most from their "policies"??

If you want to preach your nonsense You can join Ed Palamar's church:roll: