Girl dead for not wearing burka
- Thread starter #juan
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More importantly, she died of being strangled by her father because she wouldn't wear a hijab. The father was suffering from being Muslim. It was obviously important to the father that she wear the hijab. It was so important that her older brother got himself arrested for obstruction of justice.
``violence does not stem from religion``
I'm not so sure of that in view of news of religious bias attacks in NYC:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...tecrime_talk_is_ridiculous_says_one_of-1.html
and the guy who came to their rescue is a Muslim:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...12_muslim_hero_breaks_up_train_beating-1.html
There continue to be hate based violence throughout the USA but the news media refuse to report it. Likewise, the critics on this forum like to discuss issues that deal with Muslim created violence but conveniently ignore Christofascist violence.
I'm not so sure of that in view of news of religious bias attacks in NYC:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...tecrime_talk_is_ridiculous_says_one_of-1.html
and the guy who came to their rescue is a Muslim:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...12_muslim_hero_breaks_up_train_beating-1.html
There continue to be hate based violence throughout the USA but the news media refuse to report it. Likewise, the critics on this forum like to discuss issues that deal with Muslim created violence but conveniently ignore Christofascist violence.
Yet unfortunately, the father did not approach the matter in an Islamic fashion. Yes, she was wrong (and sinned) to not wear hijab. But there's no permissability in Shari'ah for him to take the law into his own hands. Plus, the absence of hijab does not require the punishment of death. So while the father was 'suffering' (as you claim) of being Muslim, he probably lost control of his emotions and did not act in a rational, Islamic manner.
If I had been in his shoes, I would have just let her take her stuff out and tell not to even think about coming back until she decides to start practicing her deen.
O you who believe! Verily, among your wives and your children there are enemies for you (i.e. may stop you from the obedience of Allāh), therefore beware of them! But if you pardon (them) and overlook, and forgive (their faults), then verily, Allāh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (At-Taghabun 64:14)
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The best of you are those who are slow to anger and swift to cool down...Beware of anger, for it is a live coal on the heart of the descendants of Adam." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1331
Oh, and FYI, the head scarf is not the same thing as the burqa. The burqa is a piece of clothing that completely covers a woman head to toe, including the face. The head scarf just covers the head (and perhaps areas below it, depending on its length). In the Qur'aan, it says that the women must cover themselves with a khimar (the closest English translation is a 'headress that covers/protects"). The Qur'aan also states that Muslimahs must make sure that their khumur (plural of khimar) cover their breasts.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islām), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allāh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful. (An-Nur 24:31)
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allāh is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Al-Ahzab 33:59)
That's like saying that guns don't kill people do. I suspect very few people follow the real Islam either. I don't think anyone is arguing that this isn't a case of violence against women. Of course it is, and it's a lot of things as well as that. One of those things is that the basis for the father to become angry is what he has been taught about Islam and some interpretation of the Quran. He felt that keeping control of her included force which is what he used in attempting that. You can't say that it just didn't matter to him if she wore Hijab or not. As it was a sticking point with them.
And that is a failing within the Islamic faith because nonviolence should clearly be above and beyond any garment worn or not worn. Leaving something of that nature open to interpretation is as big a failing as it gets.
Oh stop acting obtuse. You know about Honour killing as well as they rest of us. To say that men don't kill women because of some slight to their family name and their honour is bloody dishonest. That doesn't take away from the fact that it's violence against women one iota. But it's still a well know fact that Muslims as well as some other religions turn a blind eye at least and promote it at worst.
I don't think you really know anyone here yet and you should act a little more respectful toward others as you would, I'm sure want them to act toward you.
No matter how you choose to slice it, there are bad things done in the name of religion and everything else under the sun by all walks of people and both genders. Arabs, Muslims, Men none have clean hands as a distinct demographic. While the microscope is on Islam and Muslims world wide, there is clearly no shortage of trouble makers and out right monsters.
If a Muslim murders someone, religion automatically becomes a factor according to our news. But if a Christian murders someone, faith isn't an issue. As a result of this propaganda technique (and others), people end up with a false perception that Islam is a violent religion.
If everytime a Christian murdered someone, our news focused on their religion, we'd have a similar misperception about Christians.
Imagine if the news focused on the fact that the BTK serial murder was a Lutheran cub scout leader:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader
Using the same propaganda techniques, the BTK case could be twisted to portray Lutheran cub scout leaders as having having a predisposition toward being serial murderers.
The ignorant posts in this string prove once again that most people can't tell $hit from Shinola. As a result of this anti-Muslim propagand perpetrated by our news, people I would have expected to have more sense have described this murderer as "suffering from being Muslim", like Islam was some sort of a disease that leads to violent behavior.
Countries with the highest murder rates tend to be Christian (Brazil, Mexico and Columbia), not Muslim.
Demographically, most murderers are likely to suffer from being poor young men living in large cities.
By the way, I am agnostic, not Muslim.
If everytime a Christian murdered someone, our news focused on their religion, we'd have a similar misperception about Christians.
Imagine if the news focused on the fact that the BTK serial murder was a Lutheran cub scout leader:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader
Using the same propaganda techniques, the BTK case could be twisted to portray Lutheran cub scout leaders as having having a predisposition toward being serial murderers.
The ignorant posts in this string prove once again that most people can't tell $hit from Shinola. As a result of this anti-Muslim propagand perpetrated by our news, people I would have expected to have more sense have described this murderer as "suffering from being Muslim", like Islam was some sort of a disease that leads to violent behavior.
Countries with the highest murder rates tend to be Christian (Brazil, Mexico and Columbia), not Muslim.
...An estimated 520,000 people were murdered in 2000 around the globe. Two-fifths of them were young people between the ages of 10 and 29 who were killed by other young people.[9]
Murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants in 2004
Murder rates vary greatly among countries and societies around the world. In the Western world, murder rates in most countries have declined significantly during the 20th century and are now between 1-4 cases per 100,000 people per year. Murder rates in Japan, Ireland and Iceland are among the lowest in the world, around 0.5; the rate of the United States is among the highest of developed countries, around 5.5 in 2004,[10] with rates in larger cities sometimes over 40 per 100,000.[11]
Within the Western world, nearly 90% of all murders are committed by males, with males also being the victims of 74.6% of murders (according the US Department of Justice).
There is a sharp peak in the age distribution of murderers between the ages of 17 and 30. People become decreasingly likely to commit a murder as they age.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Demographics
Demographically, most murderers are likely to suffer from being poor young men living in large cities.
By the way, I am agnostic, not Muslim.
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Earth as one said:
EaO, the point here is that this girl was murdered because of religious belief......that is the point. The opprerssion of this woman sprang from the religion in which she was raised. To pretend otherwise would be to stick our heads in the sand.
The point there is that the BTK killer murdered despite his proclaimed religion: Christianity was used as a cloak to disguise his true self, as Christianity and his acts of murder are not compatible............unlike this murder, done in the name of Islam (submission).
EaO, the point here is that this girl was murdered because of religious belief......that is the point. The opprerssion of this woman sprang from the religion in which she was raised. To pretend otherwise would be to stick our heads in the sand.
The point there is that the BTK killer murdered despite his proclaimed religion: Christianity was used as a cloak to disguise his true self, as Christianity and his acts of murder are not compatible............unlike this murder, done in the name of Islam (submission).
Amatullaah said
Exactly so: and moderate Muslims are not the problem. Unfortunately, many of the Muslims of the world have yet to drag themselves out of the 9th century............a family certainly has the right to hold up a certain standard of behaviour........and an adult woman (including a 16 year old) has the right to reject that standard, and leave the fold, so to speak.
Exactly so: and moderate Muslims are not the problem. Unfortunately, many of the Muslims of the world have yet to drag themselves out of the 9th century............a family certainly has the right to hold up a certain standard of behaviour........and an adult woman (including a 16 year old) has the right to reject that standard, and leave the fold, so to speak.
This girl was mudered because her father is a domineer and controlling a$$hole who couldn't control his temper. He wanted her to do one thing and she did another. In a fit a rage and in violation of his religion he committed an act of murder. They could have been fighting over curfew, boyfriends, drug use... whatever. In this case it was about dressing appropriately.
Ultimately this was a struggle between a father's desire to control and a daughter's desire for independance. Almost every parent with teenagers experiences an overwhelming urge to strangle them on at least one occasion for the similar reasons, regardless of their religion.
This murder was not done in the name of religion. Nowhere in the Quran does it say a father has a religious duty to throttle his daughter for not wearing a scarf on her head.
Even if a religion instructed father to kill their daughter for some violation, a reasonable parent would never do so out of love. Do you honestly believe that Muslims don't feel the same way about their children as the rest of us?
Muslims come in all stripes, from secular to fundamentalist, just like Christians. Murder is just as incompatabile with Islam as it is with Christianity.
Also you completely missed my point about the BTK serial killer. I never said he killed people because he was a Lutheran cub scout leader. My point was that the news could have used the BTK case to portray Lutheran cub scout leaders as more likely to be serial killers. All they had to do was keeping pointing it out everytime the mentioned his case.
Canadian Muslims are not more likely to commit violent crimes than anyone else.
If someone can prove that statement wrong, I'd like to see that proof.
Another example of this effect is a common misperception that crime is on the increase, when in fact violent crime has levelled and non-violent crime has dropped substantially.
That common misperception is a result of news sensationalization. Look at how much Picton has been in the news. Media coverage of Picton's case is mostly sensationalizing infotainment, not news.
The reason for the drop? We are getting older. Young people are more likely to commit crimes. As we age, we become more harmless.
Canadian Muslims are not more likely to commit violent crimes than anyone else.
If someone can prove that statement wrong, I'd like to see that proof.
Another example of this effect is a common misperception that crime is on the increase, when in fact violent crime has levelled and non-violent crime has dropped substantially.
Canada's overall national crime rate, based on incidents reported to police, hit its lowest point in over 25 years in 2006, driven by a decline in non-violent crime.
The crime rate dropped by 3%, mainly due to declines in break-ins, thefts under $5,000 and counterfeiting. The national crime rate has decreased by about 30% since peaking in 1991.
The rate fell in every province and territory, with the largest drops reported in Prince Edward Island, Alberta, New Brunswick, British Columbia and Saskatchewan.
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070718/d070718b.htm
That common misperception is a result of news sensationalization. Look at how much Picton has been in the news. Media coverage of Picton's case is mostly sensationalizing infotainment, not news.
The reason for the drop? We are getting older. Young people are more likely to commit crimes. As we age, we become more harmless.
I have many times tried to learn about the various forms of Sharia law, because every sect seems to have their own take, and I always hit the same road blocks:
All that goes to say that a Westerner cannot know the various Sharia laws without learning Arabic and tracking down the Hadith, and a verbal tradition can certainly not be cited. Plus there are many schools of thought on the correct interpretation of a holy book, as any one knows by looking at the plethora of choices in Christianity alone.
Religion causes intolerance. All major religions say: "There is one way to live a pure life, and this is it," anything else is immoral. It is normal to think that immoral people deserve punishment, and humans are notoriously barbaric, the first punishment we reach for is the infliction of pain. Thus, intolerance causes violence. If one is willing to be a heretic and say, "Our religion does not encompass the only knowledge of divinity," then one can be tolerant; but a heretic can never claim to represent the religion.
- Because it is based on interpretation of the Quran, only one who can read arabic can claim to understand it.
- Because it is based on interpretation of the Hadith, only one who has heard the verbal sayings of Mohammed can claim to understand it.
- It stems from faith and so does not have a rational basis.
All that goes to say that a Westerner cannot know the various Sharia laws without learning Arabic and tracking down the Hadith, and a verbal tradition can certainly not be cited. Plus there are many schools of thought on the correct interpretation of a holy book, as any one knows by looking at the plethora of choices in Christianity alone.
Religion causes intolerance. All major religions say: "There is one way to live a pure life, and this is it," anything else is immoral. It is normal to think that immoral people deserve punishment, and humans are notoriously barbaric, the first punishment we reach for is the infliction of pain. Thus, intolerance causes violence. If one is willing to be a heretic and say, "Our religion does not encompass the only knowledge of divinity," then one can be tolerant; but a heretic can never claim to represent the religion.
This bothers me, not the deportation bit, but that you assume he can be deported. More accurately it comes off as you want to deport him because he's a criminal muslim and assume he should be shunted off to some "home country" without checking to see if Canada IS his home country. There are plenty of muslim Canadians, born and raised.
I'd like to point out this also isn't a Muslim thing. My grandfather sent one of my aunts to the hospital when she was a teenager because he caught her sneaking out the window in a miniskirt to go to a party.
Its not proud bit of family trivia, but in my grandfathers time thats how it went. He also turned down my mothers scholarship to a university, because women were meant to get married and have babies, men go to school. This was just a generation ago, and it was very common attitudes in the small town he was from. Enough he never caught in trouble for the miniskirt beating.
As much as people don't like to admit it, this is a human issue. Sure religion may fan the flames, but people still find things to do this about (ie, your kid is gay, your kid is promiscous, your kid does drugs, your kid is a crossdresser, your kid chooses a different faith, your kid is part of a wierd subculture)
Its not that this isn't a problem, its that hand waving and brushing it under the rug as a "muslim thing" rather than taking a good hard look in the mirror is letting down everyone this happens to who has an overbearing abusive parent that ISN'T muslim.
nationalpost.com
Culture not behind girl's death: brother
Muslim father remains in jail
Natalie Alcoba, National Post, with files from Agence France-Presse Published: Thursday, December 13, 2007
Facebook profile photo of Aqsa Parvez.
BRAMPTON - While a devout Muslim family struggled yesterday to make sense of an incident that left a daughter dead and a father and son under arrest, one relative denied that the teenager's death resulted from a clash between Western and Islamic cultures.
Mohammad Parvez is accused of killing his youngest daughter, Aqsa Parvez, after the family allegedly argued over the girl's refusal to wear the traditional Muslim head scarf called a hijab.
But the girl 's brother, Mohammad Shan Parvez, told reporters yesterday that what happened "is not [about] culture."
He said his mother is sick with grief. "She cannot control, because her daughter died, so she's [feeling] bad," said Mr. Parvez, shortly after he saw his 57-year-old father make a brief court appearance in an orange prison jumpsuit.
"It's bad to see him here," Mr. Parvez said.
"My dad is alive, but my sister passed away, so I feel bad for my sister."
Joseph Ciraco, lawyer for the father, said family members "are torn."
"I mean, you've got a sister that's gone and your father and brother are in jail. I don't think it's a big surprise that they're distraught and trying to cope as best they can."
Police have not speculated on a motive behind the killing, but indicated for the first time yesterday that the 16-year-old girl died of a "neck compression."
Police were called to the Parvez home in Mississauga minutes before 8 a.m. on Monday by a man who told 911 operators that he had killed his daughter.
Paramedics found the girl lying motionless on the floor of her bedroom, and rushed her to hospital with a faint pulse. She died several hours later.
Friends have said that Aqsa left her home about a week before the attack because she had been fighting with her father and brothers about her refusal to wear the hijab and other traditional clothing. The teenager would often change into Western clothes when she got to her high school, then put the hijab back on before she went home, friends said. One classmate said the girl had been threatened by her father.
Investigators later charged her father, a taxicab driver from Pakistan, with murder. Her brother, 26-year-old Waqas Parvez, is accused of obstructing police, allegedly at the family home on Monday. He will make a court appearance tomorrow.
His father cast his eyes on the ground as he stood before Justice of the Peace Darlene Florence in a Brampton courtroom yesterday and was remanded into custody.
A diminutive man with thinning grey hair, he clasped the hands of his cuffed wrists, and remained expressionless in the prisoner's box.
He mumbled "yes" when asked if he understood the justice's order not to communicate with Waqas.
Mr. Ciraco said his client will likely face a charge of second-degree murder, although that has not been finalized. As a matter of course, bail hearings for accused murderers are usually remanded, Mr. Ciraco said.
Mr. Parvez will next appear in court on Jan. 29, at which time his defence may decide if it wants to apply for bail.
Meanwhile, Canadian Muslims continued to decry Aqsa's killing, with a mosque in Newmarket sending out a news release that called her death "a tragedy beyond reason."
A spokesman for the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-CAN) said he is dubious of opinions that the girl's death resulted from a clash of cultures.
"Teen rebellion is something that exists in all households in Canada and is not unique to any culture or background," CAIR-CAN's Sameer Zuberi said in an interview. "Domestic violence is also not unique to Muslims."
The death of Aqsa "was the result of domestic violence, a problem that cuts across Canadian society and is blind to color or creed," echoed Shahina Siddiqui, president of the Islamic Social Services Association.
The two groups and 18 other Muslim groups in an open letter to prosecutors asked for the strongest possible prosecution of her killer, and "zero tolerance for violence of any kind against women or girls."
Culture not behind girl's death: brother
Muslim father remains in jail
Natalie Alcoba, National Post, with files from Agence France-Presse Published: Thursday, December 13, 2007
BRAMPTON - While a devout Muslim family struggled yesterday to make sense of an incident that left a daughter dead and a father and son under arrest, one relative denied that the teenager's death resulted from a clash between Western and Islamic cultures.
Mohammad Parvez is accused of killing his youngest daughter, Aqsa Parvez, after the family allegedly argued over the girl's refusal to wear the traditional Muslim head scarf called a hijab.
But the girl 's brother, Mohammad Shan Parvez, told reporters yesterday that what happened "is not [about] culture."
He said his mother is sick with grief. "She cannot control, because her daughter died, so she's [feeling] bad," said Mr. Parvez, shortly after he saw his 57-year-old father make a brief court appearance in an orange prison jumpsuit.
"It's bad to see him here," Mr. Parvez said.
"My dad is alive, but my sister passed away, so I feel bad for my sister."
Joseph Ciraco, lawyer for the father, said family members "are torn."
"I mean, you've got a sister that's gone and your father and brother are in jail. I don't think it's a big surprise that they're distraught and trying to cope as best they can."
Police have not speculated on a motive behind the killing, but indicated for the first time yesterday that the 16-year-old girl died of a "neck compression."
Police were called to the Parvez home in Mississauga minutes before 8 a.m. on Monday by a man who told 911 operators that he had killed his daughter.
Paramedics found the girl lying motionless on the floor of her bedroom, and rushed her to hospital with a faint pulse. She died several hours later.
Friends have said that Aqsa left her home about a week before the attack because she had been fighting with her father and brothers about her refusal to wear the hijab and other traditional clothing. The teenager would often change into Western clothes when she got to her high school, then put the hijab back on before she went home, friends said. One classmate said the girl had been threatened by her father.
Investigators later charged her father, a taxicab driver from Pakistan, with murder. Her brother, 26-year-old Waqas Parvez, is accused of obstructing police, allegedly at the family home on Monday. He will make a court appearance tomorrow.
His father cast his eyes on the ground as he stood before Justice of the Peace Darlene Florence in a Brampton courtroom yesterday and was remanded into custody.
A diminutive man with thinning grey hair, he clasped the hands of his cuffed wrists, and remained expressionless in the prisoner's box.
He mumbled "yes" when asked if he understood the justice's order not to communicate with Waqas.
Mr. Ciraco said his client will likely face a charge of second-degree murder, although that has not been finalized. As a matter of course, bail hearings for accused murderers are usually remanded, Mr. Ciraco said.
Mr. Parvez will next appear in court on Jan. 29, at which time his defence may decide if it wants to apply for bail.
Meanwhile, Canadian Muslims continued to decry Aqsa's killing, with a mosque in Newmarket sending out a news release that called her death "a tragedy beyond reason."
A spokesman for the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-CAN) said he is dubious of opinions that the girl's death resulted from a clash of cultures.
"Teen rebellion is something that exists in all households in Canada and is not unique to any culture or background," CAIR-CAN's Sameer Zuberi said in an interview. "Domestic violence is also not unique to Muslims."
The death of Aqsa "was the result of domestic violence, a problem that cuts across Canadian society and is blind to color or creed," echoed Shahina Siddiqui, president of the Islamic Social Services Association.
The two groups and 18 other Muslim groups in an open letter to prosecutors asked for the strongest possible prosecution of her killer, and "zero tolerance for violence of any kind against women or girls."
Warrior Won strikes again. First somebody beats a young girl to death and before the incident can be explained away with minimal offense, Warrior One assumes foul play. Granted, she's probably dead, but the witness/confessor was a member of a minority group.
Violence of this kind is rare here, and too common just the same. Protestations are in order, protestations from the beginning of the day until the end, before the evidence and liability are clear and after. But if the one who said it was all over a hat has lied, Warrior Won has been mislead, and that is a shame, but not a bad-hat-murder shame.
Violence of this kind is rare here, and too common just the same. Protestations are in order, protestations from the beginning of the day until the end, before the evidence and liability are clear and after. But if the one who said it was all over a hat has lied, Warrior Won has been mislead, and that is a shame, but not a bad-hat-murder shame.
CTV News reported many of Aqsa's fellow students have the same clothing issue with their parents. She just wanted to fit in. Teen-age rebellion is nothing new. I remember having the same battle with my Dad over long hair, scruffy blue jeans and the guitar I wore on my back. The battle may have been over the burka, but I doubt if it was religion based.
Woof!
Woof!
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Sorry, can you explain to me your definition of 'moderate' Muslim? Because Islam itself calls for moderation, as proven by many ahadeeth.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once asked a companion: "(Is it true) that you fast all day and stand in prayer all night?" The companion replied that the report was indeed true. The Prophet then said: "Do not do that! Observe the fast sometimes and also leave (it) at other times. Stand up for prayer at night and also sleep at night. Your body has a right over you, your eyes have a right over you and your wife has a right over you." - Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Hadith 127
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately. . .Always adopt a middle, moderate, regular course, whereby you will reach your target (of paradise)." - Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Hadith 470
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The good deeds of any person will not make him enter Paradise (i.e., no one enters paradise only through his good deeds)." The Prophet's companions asked: "Not even you?" The Prophet replied: "Not even myself, unless God bestows His favor and mercy on me. So be moderate in your religious deeds and do what is within your ability. None of you should wish for death, for if he is a doer of good, he may increase his good deeds, and if he is an evil doer, he may repent to God." - Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Hadith 577
http://www.islamawareness.net/Hadith/htopic_moderation.html
However, if you're referring to what the Canadian media usually calls 'moderate Muslims' (i.e. those who seek to reform the Qur'aan, Shari'ah, or Islam in general, or those who sacrifice parts of their deen to assimilate into Canadian culture), then those Muslim unfortunately are not proper representations of Islaam. In fact, those who believe that Canadian law is better than Shari'ah law commit the unforgivable sin of shirk, and most Islamic scholars (I only include Sunnis in this) say that such a belief takes a person outside the fold of Islaam.
Also, the Qur'aan was revealed in the 7th century of the Common Era, or 1428 years ago according to the Hijiri calendar. (Just in case you were confused; I cannot tell from your post.) However, the laws of the Qur'aan are their for all time, although there is nothing wrong with Muslims using modern technology (as long as use of these materials does not required an action that is haram). Yet, it seems as if Westerners believe that 'modern' society is now the best society that can be (in reference to past civilizations, cultures, etc.), and yet, human nature from Biblical times still hasn't changed. People kill, rape, use drugs. There are still prostitutes, people who take advantage of one another, and on the flip side, there are those who show compassion, help the poor, feed the hungry, etc. On top of calling all of humanity to tawheed (Islamic monotheism) and giving us the purpose of our life and the tools of how to act accordingly, the Qur'aan address human nature in general, which is something that is timeless (until the Day of Judgement [Yawm al-Qiyamah]). This is why the laws of the Qur'aan are timless (until Yawm al-Qiyamah).
So there is no need for Muslims to 'modernize' themselves if they do not wish to. For Muslims living here in Canada, we are required by Shari'ah to obey Canadian laws as long as a)the leader of Canada allows Salaah, and b)a Canadian law does not contradict basic Shari'ah law. Therefore, we Muslims in Canada are required to pay taxes, not commit murder, not steal, etc. So as long as we obey the law, I don't see why you should bother us, Colpy, or tell use how to live. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is what I see many Canadians defending and referencing to attack Islaam and they perceived view of injustice to Muslim women, allows us Muslims here in Canada to live how we want, as long as we do not break the law, and only requires us to be tolerant of other religions and ways of life. There is nothing (as far as i know) in that charter that requires Muslims in Canada to assimilate (a la United States) into mainstream society, nor for us to like you. And there is nothing that requires non-Muslims in Canada to like Muslims. You just have to put up with us and our deen (way of life/religion) as long as we don't break the law.
Now, according to Islaam, a 16-year old is an adult, and yes, as you've said, she has the intellectual ability to make decision for herself. If she chooses not to practice Islaam, then that's fine, she can live her observant Muslim household. I don't think the father should have stopped her, if that was the case. In the end, they will both answer to Allaah Azza Wa Jal for their actions, and I pray that He (subhanahu wa ta'ala) forgives them both. However, if she apostates from Islaam, then in an Islaamic country, the Shari'ah penalty for that is death. Here in Canada, a non-Islaamic nor Muslim-lead country, there is no Shari'ah and therefore punishment of death. Muslims themselves, whether in an Islaamic or non-Islaamic country, cannot take the law into their own hands, no matter whether it is Secular or Shari'ah law, according the laws of Shari'ah. It is up to the authorities, in either type of country, to enforce the country's laws.
If you would some references for any of the facts I've listed here, or links to information expanding on the subject, please let me know.
Shaykh Bilal Philips helps run a University degree program for English-speaking Muslims in Islaam (http://bilalphilips.com/), whose curriculum includes several courses on Fiqh (Islaamic Jurisprudence). While it is better for Muslims to learn Arabic, and it is indeed incumbent on them to do so, one can still learn Shari'ah law without being able to read and speak Arabic. However, proficiency in that language is necessary if one wants to read any of the classical works in Islaam, including the Qur'aan and the compilations of Ahadeeth, and also the literary works of scholars such as an-Nawawi, Ibn Hajr, Ibn al-Qayyim, Imam Hanafi, Imam Shafi'i, Imam Maliki, Imam Ibn Hanbal, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam al-Ghazali, etc.
For your second point, there are many ahadeeth which explain the meaning of the Prophet's (salallaahu alayhi wa salaam) words within the actual hadeeth itself, as well as other ahadeeth which explain the meaning of other ahadeeth. There is also the writings of the four Imams, who were the most knowledge in matter of Fiqh, who lived during the time of the third generation of as-Salaaf as-Saaliheen. So they were around when people who had met the Prophet Muhammad (salallaahu alayhi wa salaam) were still alive, if my memory serves me correctly. It is from their writings that most scholars of today get their information from (as well as from other classical scholars, such as Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah).
What do god/religion/ET/UFOs have in common?
There is no physical evidence of any of them. None. Zip. Nada.
There is no physical evidence of any of them. None. Zip. Nada.
But that is just it, before I can understand the Sharia [sic] (Shariah? I am unsure of spelling) law, I must read the Quran and know the Hadith. Without knowing Arabic, even if I memorized an English translation of the Quran my interpretations would always be prone to the terrible argument, "The Arabic says something that the English doesn't." I personally find that nonsense, because I do not believe that Arabic is in any way more or less precise English, but I will never be able to claim to know Sharia in any sort of debate because of the view that the above argument is valid.
I would like to see the reference for your statement, "if she apostates from Islaam, then in an Islaamic country, the Shari'ah penalty for that is death." Just to see it with my own eyes, but I will take your word for it now. Would the penalty still be death if a man were to apostate?
In any case, consider this case in particular and the sharia laws you have stated. The daughter does not wish to wear a head adornment, the father takes that as a sign of apostasy. He therefore feels justified in killing her under Sharia law, however Canadian law forbids this. Sharia law states that one must follow the laws of a country unless it is in conflict with Sharia law. Now, Canadian law allows one to apostate freely which is not in strict accordance with Sharia, therefore in this interpretation of Sharia a Canadian Muslim father could feel justified in killing his daughter for assumed apostasy with evidence the lack of commitment to the tenets of the religion. In any case, one could merely take one's daughter to a country which does not forbid this and murder one's daughter in accordance with Sharia.
Also, definitely I agree with Zzarchov on this one. Humans just do stuff like this, whenever we feel justified in our intolerance of personal choices. Violence is a bad way to achieve any end.
As usual, the forum likes to emphasize tragedies caused by Muslims but fails to realize that Christianity has more than its share of incidents:
hate cult death:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/17487/remnant-fellowship-7
Christian Science deaths:
http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/victims.htm
''devout'' parents abuse child to death:
http://www.nospank.net/n-q83r.htm
And need i remind you that over one million Iraqis are dead today because Bush claims to have been inspired by God to invade Iraq.
hate cult death:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/17487/remnant-fellowship-7
Christian Science deaths:
http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/victims.htm
''devout'' parents abuse child to death:
http://www.nospank.net/n-q83r.htm
And need i remind you that over one million Iraqis are dead today because Bush claims to have been inspired by God to invade Iraq.