20 Dead After Shooting at South Texas Church

[Serryah]

"The person was mentally ill..."

So says Trump, who also has allowed the mentally ill to have guns.

No excuse anymore.

Move alone, just another day in the USA; who cares, nothing will change.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

"The person was mentally ill..."

So says Trump, who also has allowed the mentally ill to have guns.

No excuse anymore.

Move alone, just another day in the USA; who cares, nothing will change.

While I understand, and certainly sympathize with, your frustration, I gotta give President Drunkuncle a pass on this one. Most gun control laws are state laws, not Federal laws. And those that are Federal , of course, have to be initiated in the Congress, where there is currently ZERO interest (or guts).

 

[Hoid]

I can't speak for Boomer, but I have never said there was...........crime rates and murder rates have nothing to do with guns.

The falling crime rate is a result of other factors, mainly demographics.

However, what is proven by falling crime rates and increasing availability of guns and concealed carry is guns do not drive murder rates.

i tend to agree that you cannot show proof one way or the other as to what CC does. The rest not so much.

I would go so far as to say that availability of firearms factors both in crime and anti crime. In fact if it does one it has to do the other. Guns are a powerful tool and they are widely used in America.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

i tend to agree that you cannot show proof one way or the other as to what CC does. The rest not so much.

I would go so far as to say that availability of firearms factors both in crime and anti crime. In fact if it does one it has to do the other. Guns are a powerful tool and they are widely used in America.

And there are more than 300,000,000 guns in private hands in the U.S. And a properly cared-for gun will last a century at least. And gun ownership polls about 70% in favor in poll after poll after poll.

Which means that whatever we want to do to limit gun violence, "get rid of the guns" is simply not feasible.

Therefore. . . as the debate goes on, I will seriously consider any proposals to limit gun violence, or access to guns, but I will no longer respond to "get rid of the guns," because that is just magical thinking.

 

[Hoid]

And there are more than 300,000,000 guns in private hands in the U.S. And a properly cared-for gun will last a century at least. And gun ownership polls about 70% in favor in poll after poll after poll.

Which means that whatever we want to do to limit gun violence, "get rid of the guns" is simply not feasible.

Therefore. . . as the debate goes on, I will seriously consider any proposals to limit gun violence, or access to guns, but I will no longer respond to "get rid of the guns," because that is just magical thinking.

I would never say to get rid of guns. If it could be done then sure, but like you said it really can't be done. It's like Herpes.

There are a lots of guns down there and they get used all the time but gun ownership has been on the decline since 1993. It is down over 20% since the 70s. So we need to understand that there are over 60% of the homes without a gun and that the trend is strongly down.

So I don't think America is immune to stringent gun laws. They are highly resistant.

They are saying now that this guy's in-laws attended this church. So what are the chances it's some asshole who's mad at his wife and decides to punish her?

So domestic violence must be like domestic terrorism - a mental problem.

 

[Cliffy]

So domestic violence must be like domestic terrorism - a mental problem.

And that is at the crux of the problem; too many crazy people and Trump has aggravated the problem with his hate and racist remarks giving white supremacists, the KKK and any crazy with a gun license to live and die out their fantasies. Plus, the Yanky education system has been intentionally dumbing down the population for decades, half the kids are on Ritalin and other pharmaceutical drugs and are destined to become junkies. They are a nation born of violence and are doomed to live in violence and the only cure would be for the empire to self destruct and several smaller independent states take its place.
Oh, and Republicans who keep cutting funding to mental health & education so they can give tax brakes to their rich friends. Which accounts for at least 1/3rd of Yankies voting for a psychopath like Trump, Paul Ryan and other destructive, self righteous, right wingnut assholes.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

By the way, where are the crazies shrieking that this is fake news, and a setup by gun-grabbers, and nobody really died?

 

[Hoid]

Apparently this guy's grand mother-in-law was one of the victims.

So I don't know what his wife did to him but boy did he ever show her!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.html

Here is the story on this guy. A sort of typical loser with a long history of violence and a more recent descent into total craziness.

Obviously if he had more guns this probably would never have happened.

 

[Cliffy]

 

[petros]

When someone else pulled a gun and started shooting back he tried to flee.

Now if he thought everyone in the church was going to draw and open fire at him immediately he probably wouldn't have done it in the first place. Seriously if these idiots knew most of the population was armed and ready to shoot back a lot of these events would never take place.

Do signs and window stickers that say a house is alarmed keep burglars away more effectively than no signs or stickers?

He did it to get "likes" on Facebook.

 

[Colpy]

I would never say to get rid of guns. If it could be done then sure, but like you said it really can't be done. It's like Herpes.

There are a lots of guns down there and they get used all the time but gun ownership has been on the decline since 1993. It is down over 20% since the 70s. So we need to understand that there are over 60% of the homes without a gun and that the trend is strongly down.

So I don't think America is immune to stringent gun laws. They are highly resistant.

They are saying now that this guy's in-laws attended this church. So what are the chances it's some asshole who's mad at his wife and decides to punish her?

So domestic violence must be like domestic terrorism - a mental problem.

I do not believe the stats on household gun ownership in the USA, which are based on telephone surveys.

As TB pointed out, there are 300 million guns. Gun sales have been breaking records for the past couple of decades. How can there be less gun owners?

As well, I have somewhere close to 20 guns, many of them handguns. If a telephone interviewer asked me about guns in the house, I would say "Guns! No. Dangerous weapons of violence. Vile!" And then go to the range and fire 100 9mms to cleanse my soul.

I suspect the same thing is going on in the USA.

 

[tay]

Gun control advocates slammed President Donald Trump on Monday as a hypocrite for having signed a bill earlier this year that rolled back a regulation making it harder for people with mental illnesses to buy firearms even as he blamed the mass shooting in Texas over the weekend on "a mental health problem."

"Trump is wrong — study after study show that stronger gun laws can save lives — and a hypocrite of the worst kind," Peter Ambler, the executive director of Giffords, the gun control group started by former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, told NBC News. "One of his first actions as president trashed a new regulation that would have prevented potentially irresponsible and mentally incompetent people from being able to buy guns."

Ambler added, "Blaming mental health is a tactic straight out of the gun lobby's playbook that's meant to paralyze Congress. Donald Trump's goal is to make people think our leaders don't have the power to prevent gun violence."

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/t...-blaming-mental-health-why-did-he-end-n818041

 

[Hoid]

this chart is pretty much in line with everything I have read.

I am not totally sure that the numbers are accurate either because they only indicate percentage of households that admit to having legal guns in them. SO obviously like you lots of people are going to with hold the information for one reason or another and of course people with illegal guns are probably going to keep quiet about it.

But I think the trend of fewer people owning more guns is accurate.

 

[Johnnny]

This thread is another reason why I don't understand why Canadians care so much about American Issues.

We don't understand their "Gun Culture". Why? Because we live our own culture. If they want to idolize their lonewolf hero then let them. We're a 1/10th their population so whatever we think has already been discussed over there.

 

[darkbeaver]

How many of these mass murders will the American public endure untill they make thier government responsible? I'm torn between feeling sorry for them and sorry because of them, how they can swallow so much bullshjt is beyond me. Just wave that flag and they all fall in line. China made America what it is today, cheap. Of course Canada follows thier lead, like we have a choice, how many aircraft carriers do we have? We can't even get out of the F-35 deal so we won't have an airforse either. Anybody know where are army? How many instructors do we have where. Canada is a big stupid country that wants my money so it can keep me safe from transgender indicision and homo racism. I blame it all on todays wayward youth. The stuff in the tatoo ink is forking them up along with the synfood. I used to be one of them but time happened.

This thread is another reason why I don't understand why Canadians care so much about American Issues.

We don't understand their "Gun Culture". Why? Because we live our own culture. If they want to idolize their lonewolf hero then let them. We're a 1/10th their population so whatever we think has already been discussed over there.

I care about American issues because we share a long unprotected border with them and we are viewed by them as unfinished business.
They have a record of perpetual warfare, sooner or later they'll go for the whole continent. A consolodation of values under one flag something like it is now only different.

Obviously we can't be trusted not to let the Russians and the Chinese perforate our arctic borders. Which I would/will do first avilable oportunity. America is a seeething caldron of nutty.

 

[Johnnny]

I do not believe the stats on household gun ownership in the USA, which are based on telephone surveys.

As TB pointed out, there are 300 million guns. Gun sales have been breaking records for the past couple of decades. How can there be less gun owners?

As well, I have somewhere close to 20 guns, many of them handguns. If a telephone interviewer asked me about guns in the house, I would say "Guns! No. Dangerous weapons of violence. Vile!" And then go to the range and fire 100 9mms to cleanse my soul.

I suspect the same thing is going on in the USA.

You have only 20 guns?


I grew up in a house with at least 150+ guns. I probably learned to shoot at a younger age than you.

 

[darkbeaver]

You have only 20 guns?


I grew up in a house with at least 150+ guns. I probably learned to shoot at a younger age than you.

Me to theres a weapon behind every door, and I know where the ammo is for most of them. Let me see thers a 12 ,16, 20,410 stuff fer crowds a 30.30, 306 280 a Sherman tank a homemade nuclear misseyel, and a nukular submarine all in working order I'm not allowed to talk about the other stuff in the lab.

I don't think twenty is enough.

 

[Johnnny]

Me to theres a weapon behind every door, and I know where the ammo is for most of them. Let me see thers a 12 ,16, 20,410 stuff fer crowds a 30.30, 306 280 a Sherman tank a homemade nuclear misseyel, and a nukular submarine all in working order I'm not allowed to talk about the other stuff in the lab.

I don't think twenty is enough.

You still live with your parents?

 

[Durry]

A Tale of Two Cities:


CHICAGO ...HOUSTON, TX
Population 2.7 million.. 2.15 million

Median HH Income
$38,600....$37,000

% African-American
38.9%....24%

% Hispanic
29.9%.....44%

% Asian
5.5%....6%

% Non-Hispanic White
28.7%....26%

Pretty similar until you compare the following:

Chicago, Il .. Houston, TX..

Concealed Carry - Legal
No.. Yes

Number of Gun Stores
None.....184 Dedicated gun stores plus 1500 - legal places to buy guns--Wal-Mart, K-mart, sporting goods, etc.

Homicides, 2012
1,806.....207

Homicides per 100K
38.4.....9.6

Avg. January high temperature (F)
31....63

Conclusion : Cold weather causes murders. This is due to climate change.

 

[Danbones]

Jeez how many guns to do the job?
a 30.06 ( or 308 ), a .22, and a 12 gauge together should do most types of gun werks

Though most deer do like to go to sleep with a nice 30.30.