Let's put Truman on Trial

[JLM]

The law of Human decency??? What other country to that point dropped a single bomb that killed 70,000 people and left another fifty thousand or so to suffer a slow death from radiation? It wasn't as if they had no idea what would happen.

I think the question of human decency falls on the Japs who had first choice to call the whole thing off instead of perpetuating their vicious ways, definitely no consideration for their own people.

 

[skookumchuck]

I think this paragraph is the most telling and most relevant. It has been commonplace in the last century for the USA to ignore international laws and treaties during wars and peacetime while at the same time vilifying other nations who flout the same laws and agreements and labeling them war criminals.

I would like to see many Americans brought to The Hague and tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity but I hold little hope it will ever happen.

Where would the "Hague" be without the allies victory?

The USA did not overrun Europe or the South Pacific or Asia. Nor come up with a Final Solution. The German's were the architects of World War II, the Japanese willing partners. The Second world war started officially, one could say, in September 1939, but Japan had already invaded China in 1937 The USA did not even enter the War until Late 1941, close to two years after it started and only after Japan launched the offensive in Pearl Harbor.

So yes. the answer to your question would be: If Germany or Japan had dropped an atomic bomb it would have been a crime agaainst humanity, one in a long list of crimes already committed before the United States entered the war and helped the Allies bring about an end. Thank goodness for Generals like Ike Eisenhower and US soldiers, who, unlike their British Allies learned to adapt and overcome in the face of adversity. Thank goodness for the Aussies and the Canadians.

And as a final note. Thank Goodness that the Nazi's never achieved their goal of building an A Bomb, which they were most assuredly seeking to do, because they would not have stopped after two. Even if we had surrendered.

Very accurate good reply! Won't count with the lefties though.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Just out of curiosity, what international law or treaty did the atomic bombings violate?

Since there was no such thing as an A-bomb prior the only thing I know for sure it could have fallen under would be the Geneva Conventions against poison weapons due to the radiation poisoning in the aftermath. The Americans sure as hell would have gone after the Japanese or Germans as war criminals if either of them had dropped the bomb.

My point though is still not just about the bombs, it is the constant violations of international laws, treaties, and the Geneva Conventions by the US while trying other nations and their leaders as war criminals for doing the same thing. I for one am sick of them not adhering to the laws they use to prosecute others.

 

[JLM]

I would like to see many Americans brought to The Hague and tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity but I hold little hope it will ever happen.

You and Gerry should form a club and maybe between the two of you, you could convince enough people! (But don't hold your breath) -

 

[PoliticalNick]

You and Gerry should form a club and maybe between the two of you, you could convince enough people! (But don't hold your breath) -

Don't worry, I know there are far too many like you out there that give the yanks a free pass on their breeches of international law and their war crimes.

 

[JLM]

Don't worry, I know there are far too many like you out there that give the yanks a free pass on their breeches of international law and their war crimes.

Let's say for sake of argument they were brought to the Hague to face charges. Do you not think the Germans, Italians and Japs should precede them?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Let's say for sake of argument they were brought to the Hague to face charges. Do you not think the Germans, Italians and Japs should precede them?

The Germans have already been there (well Nuremberg), the Japanese (your showing your true self with 'japs') can have a place in line especially for their exploits in China, the Italians didn't really do much so I'm not sure if they are even worthy of an honorable mention but if you insist they can have a trial too. The USA has earned their place on trial in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq and a few more places if not for dropping the bombs but they have still earned a spot in the game as a defendant.

 

[JLM]

The Germans have already been there (well Nuremberg), the Japanese (your showing your true self with 'japs') can have a place in line especially for their exploits in China, the Italians didn't really do much so I'm not sure if they are even worthy of an honorable mention but if you insist they can have a trial too. The USA has earned their place on trial in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq and a few more places if not for dropping the bombs but they have still earned a spot in the game as a defendant.

Nah, in all those altercations it was someone else who got the whole things started!

 

[damngrumpy]

Oh for Gods sake we the later generations rewriting history based on
modern rules and ethics that were totally abasent at the time of the
deeds. I say that because if we are going to go down this road let us
look at the situation under which the events took place.
There were two groups the Allies and the Axis powers. The Axis
unwisely declared a state of Total War. A declaration of total war means
just that a scorched earth policy and the Allies said Bring it On.
The only alternative given to the Axis was total sruurender no conditions.
While waiting for the Japanese to surrender and in a state of total war
America could do what they liked to the enemy.
Now before we get all notted up about concentration camps and war crime,
remember they were established before the total war declaration. Secondly
they were imposed on conquored countries like Poleland etc. Totally
different kettle of fish.

 

[JLM]

Oh for Gods sake we the later generations rewriting history based on
modern rules and ethics that were totally abasent at the time of the
deeds. I say that because if we are going to go down this road let us
look at the situation under which the events took place.
There were two groups the Allies and the Axis powers. The Axis
unwisely declared a state of Total War. A declaration of total war means
just that a scorched earth policy and the Allies said Bring it On.
The only alternative given to the Axis was total sruurender no conditions.
While waiting for the Japanese to surrender and in a state of total war
America could do what they liked to the enemy.
Now before we get all notted up about concentration camps and war crime,
remember they were established before the total war declaration. Secondly
they were imposed on conquored countries like Poleland etc. Totally
different kettle of fish.

Right on, he just has "a bee in his bonnet". -

 

[Nuggler]

What do you mean the roles were reversed?

Ok, so the US invades Europe, burns, rapes, tortures, imprisons, ...............yep the Japanese would be justified in using the A bomb.


THERE JUST AIN'T NO JUSTIFICATION in what the Japs did. Except in their own twisted minds.

But, nowadays they make good cars.

H O N D A ...............................:lol:

 

[Colpy]

So let's get back to where the debate started and the original question/idea....



So would you agree that if the roles were reversed and either Japan or Germany had dropped the bomb then the USA would have been bleating on about it being a war crime and a crime against humanity for decades and would have tried and hung anyone connected with ordering it?

No.

Did they hang the Germans responsible for the bombing of British cities??

Therein lies your answer.

Although the entire concept of trials of the losers in warfare is in itself absolutely doubtful. Churchill was right, we knew who did what, just shoot the top guys, then get on with rebuilding.

 

[PoliticalNick]

No.

Did they hang the Germans responsible for the bombing of British cities??

Therein lies your answer.

Although the entire concept of trials of the losers in warfare is in itself absolutely doubtful. Churchill was right, we knew who did what, just shoot the top guys, then get on with rebuilding.

So we could just shoot Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld msybe a couple more and get on with rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq

 

[petros]

Did they hang the Germans responsible for the bombing of British cities??

I Aim at the Stars is a 1960 biographical film which tells the story of the life of Wernher von Braun

He aimed for the stars but hit London

The Japs were willing to surrender long before the U and Pu bombs just not unconditionally.

Both those bombs were combat tests at the expense of Japanese civilians and nothing more

 

[JLM]

So we could just shoot Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld msybe a couple more and get on with rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq

The burning question is can we use the same criteria today as was used 70 years ago?

Well, I see the forum idiot has reared his ugly head again, with absolutely no provocation. Two can play the same stupid game!

Ok, so the US invades Europe, burns, rapes, tortures, imprisons, ...............yep the Japanese would be justified in using the A bomb.


THERE JUST AIN'T NO JUSTIFICATION in what the Japs did. Except in their own twisted minds.

But, nowadays they make good cars.

H O N D A ...............................:lol:

Actually I asked that question to Nick, as I felt his knowledge of WWII was kind of sparse, as he was seemingly unaware that Germany and Japan had already dropped bombs. (I guess someone has hugely remiss in not posting exactly what the limit was to the size of bomb one was allowed to drop).

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The law of Human decency??? What other country to that point dropped a single bomb that killed 70,000 people and left another fifty thousand or so to suffer a slow death from radiation? It wasn't as if they had no idea what would happen.

Well, Britain. Or were you unaware of the casualties in the incendiary bombing of Dresden?

As to your "law of human decency," I will take this fabrication of "laws" by you as a concession that the atomic bombings in fact violated no law or treaty in place at the time.

Now here's a question for you. How were the deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki any worse than the deaths in Dresden or Tokyo, or Nanjing or Auschwitz?

 

[JLM]

I Aim at the Stars is a 1960 biographical film which tells the story of the life of Wernher von Braun

He aimed for the stars but hit London

The Japs were willing to surrender long before the U and Pu bombs just not unconditionally.

Both those bombs were combat tests at the expense of Japanese civilians and nothing more

I think old Harry was expecting complete compliance, which he may have felt he wasn't getting. As old Neville Chamberlain found out too late, you don't F**k with those bastards!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The Japs were willing to surrender long before the U and Pu bombs just not unconditionally.

And after the A-bombs they were willing to surrender unconditionally. The whole purpose of military force is to bring the enemy around to your way of thinking. So the bombs worked as intended.

 

[Cannuck]

Right on Christianna, Truman did the right thing and I don't see much further to discuss on the matter.

Then run along and let others, that wish to discuss it, discuss it in peace.

 

[darkbeaver]

I think the question of human decency falls on the Japs who had first choice to call the whole thing off instead of perpetuating their vicious ways, definitely no consideration for their own people.

All of these and more " who had first choice to call the whole thing off instead of perpetuating their vicious ways", Iraq, Lybia, Somalia, Vietnam, Laos, Greece, Phillipeens, Al Salvadore, Nigaragua, Peru, Chile, North Korea. Sometimes the choice given isn't a choice.