UN: Global warming 95% likely to be manmade

skookumchuck

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Jan 19, 2012
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Science courses?

And I said foresters, most of my family members specialized in silviculture, the regrowing of forests after logging. That's the problem with making assumptions without facts.

Read the IPCC reports, study the work of people like James Hansen and Lonnie Thompson instead of deciding that you don't like the conclusions that they come to so you're not going to accept their evidence.

Then see how that fits with your personal experience.

There's no doubt in my mind that people that claim it isn't happening, isn't serious or isn't us doing it are being dishonest, either with themselves or the rest of the world.

I do not refuse to accept that the climate is changing, that is part of life on earth. What i laugh at loudly is those who want my attention and money to overstate the obvious to the average idiot and make him believe that it is coming to get him. Changing what goes on on earth is not possible, lighten up boy and enjoy what time you have left.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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eaglesmack I am conservative about some things and more liberal or all the
way to social democrat depending on the issue. The world is not made up of
one or the other. In this case I am not with the Oh God the sky is falling crowd.
There are environmental issues true but nothing like the end of the world.
The other thing that gets me is the west should pay for it all everything from the
cleanup to the lost jobs. Its time the rest take responsibility for their actions
China for example, oh wait they're too busy making money to care about what
they are doing Yes we should not go out a foul our surroundings but use
common sense. Right now we are listening and adhering to the flakes and those
who have a self prescribed agenda to make our lives miserable.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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The fact you have not taken all steps available to you shows that your belief is only about what others might do as long as it doesn't inconvenience yourself.

This is pretty illogical. I believe that poverty is a problem too, and I'm sure most people who do believe as I do won't donate 100% of their salary to alleviate poverty.

There is such a thing called pragmatism. I have a car because I am required to travel for work. I am not required to car pool and change my work schedule to accommodate the group I travel with, but I do it anyways.

The all or nothing approach tends to be favoured most by those who would rather do nothing. Should I make broad assumptions about you now? You don't want to take responsibility for anything? Would that be fair to say? Not really.

Funny how the discussion starts about science, and always ends up with these lame talking points. As Zipperfish already alluded to, a carbon dioxide molecule has special properties, like other greenhouse gases. Satellites have measured the effect of this. We can measure the amount human activity has produced. We've even measured the reduction in atmospheric oxygen coinciding with combustion of fossil fuels. The total heat content of the world increases, and the so-called temperature hiatus is entirely within the bounds of natural variability plus a long-term trend, ie the climate signal.

No amount of arm chair scientist comments about tax credits and measuring your carbon prickprint will change those empirically obtained facts.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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eaglesmack I am conservative about some things and more liberal or all the
way to social democrat depending on the issue. The world is not made up of
one or the other. In this case I am not with the Oh God the sky is falling crowd.
There are environmental issues true but nothing like the end of the world.
The other thing that gets me is the west should pay for it all everything from the
cleanup to the lost jobs. Its time the rest take responsibility for their actions
China for example, oh wait they're too busy making money to care about what
they are doing Yes we should not go out a foul our surroundings but use
common sense. Right now we are listening and adhering to the flakes and those
who have a self prescribed agenda to make our lives miserable.

The same basic science that gives us modern civilization including the advanced way we're communicating here is behind the science of climate change. It didn't just appear overnight as the work of a few flakes as you claim, it began as far back as the 17th century when scientists(or natural philosophers as they were known) noticed that the Earth was warmer than it should be based on the science of thermodynamics that was being developed.

Joseph Fourier determined with accuracy how much warmer the globe was in the early 19th century almost 200 years ago but didn't understand what was the cause. John Tyndall did figure it out in the mid 1800s when he demonstrated that CO2 and water vapour act to block the transmission of heat. About 40 years later Svante Arrhenius determined with not bad accuracy how much the globe would heat up if you doubled atmospheric CO2, that was in 1898 I think. This isn't revolutionary, it's basic science.

More modern work by people like Guy Callendar and Gilbert Plass have helped lock down the likely magnitude of the radiative forcing using the same quantum mechanical theories that give us modern electronics and communication. This has been further developed using ever increasing access to information and the ability to process it that wasn't available to earlier researchers.

If the science of climate change doesn't work then we wouldn't be trading messages this way as all science would fail.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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It's more complicated than that.

Old growth forests are net contributors to CO2 atmospheric content as old trees die and decompose. By cutting down limited expanses of forest and replanting, you're revitalizing that stage of forest growth that consumes the most CO2.

And the single year ice had a 60% greater extent than last year, but that's the highly variable ice that does change from season to season. The trend in ice volume for the Arctic is towards less and less ice, it's down by more than 50% from several decades ago, making the entire sea ice cap vulnerable to loss at some point.

Of course the climate is changing, it's in the actual evidence if you care to look. It's not an easy reality to accept, but doing nothing about it out of fear or apathy isn't sane.

Yep, so complicated. :roll:

What is complicated is all the different theories and conjecture as to what has increased the global median temperature by 0.8 degrees over 135 years. I mean geezus, 0.8 degrees!!! The sky must be falling and based upon the rate of change we are all gonna burn up in the next 3000-4000 years. I'm convinced you have good cause to take more money from me to counteract this horrible trend.

Global Cooling is Here | Global Research
However, records of past climate changes suggest an altogether different scenario for the 21st century. Rather than drastic global warming at a rate of 0.5 ° C (1° F) per decade, historic records of past natural cycles suggest global cooling for the first several decades of the 21st century to about 2030, followed by global warming from about 2030 to about 2060, and renewed global cooling from 2060 to 2090 (Easterbrook, D.J., 2005, 2006a, b, 2007, 2008a, b); Easterbrook and Kovanen, 2000, 2001). Climatic fluctuations over the past several hundred years suggest ~30 year climatic cycles of global warming and cooling, on a general rising trend from the Little Ice Age.



If the science of climate change doesn't work then we wouldn't be trading messages this way as all science would fail.

OMG!!!! Now you propose that proof of the global warming theories is because we have computers and the internet? 8O:roll:

 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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What is complicated is all the different theories and conjecture as to what has increased the global median temperature by 0.8 degrees over 135 years. I mean geezus, 0.8 degrees!!! The sky must be falling and based upon the rate of change we are all gonna burn up in the next 3000-4000 years. I'm convinced you have good cause to take more money from me to counteract this horrible trend.

That's an average of the new amount of energy that's in the global system, it's not spread out evenly. It's a huge increase in energy and has acted to significant alter how heat is redistributed around the globe which is what determines climate and at a finer scale weather.

And as the system is altered then powerful feedbacks can kick in that act to amplify the change until at some point if unchecked the the changes spin out of control. Do we really want to find out at which point the polar ice sheets become completely destabilized and slide into the ocean inundating some of the most heavily populated and economically and cultural regions. How about the gigatons of methane clathrates in seafloor deposits that will become much more vulnerable as ocean temperatures rise, especially in the polar regions which in the case of the Arctic are seeing some of the greatest change. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2 and it's been associated with earlier rapid climate change, in some cases that almost wiped life out on the planet completely.

The planetary environment is highly dynamic, only a fool advocates seeing how far we can push it out of it's relatively stable current state before it kills us.

OMG!!!! Now you propose that proof of the global warming theories is because we have computers and the internet? 8O:roll:

That's incorrect, what I said was the divisions that some people believe exist in science are mostly artificial. The same science that's behind modern communications that clearly work are also behind climate change.
 

Zipperfish

House Member
Apr 12, 2013
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I do not refuse to accept that the climate is changing, that is part of life on earth. What i laugh at loudly is those who want my attention and money to overstate the obvious to the average idiot and make him believe that it is coming to get him. Changing what goes on on earth is not possible, lighten up boy and enjoy what time you have left.


Welll,l I'm a proponent of AGW myself, but I can't actually disagree with this.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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That's an average of the new amount of energy that's in the global system, it's not spread out evenly. It's a huge increase in energy and has acted to significant alter how heat is redistributed around the globe which is what determines climate and at a finer scale weather.

And as the system is altered then powerful feedbacks can kick in that act to amplify the change until at some point if unchecked the the changes spin out of control. Do we really want to find out at which point the polar ice sheets become completely destabilized and slide into the ocean inundating some of the most heavily populated and economically and cultural regions. How about the gigatons of methane clathrates in seafloor deposits that will become much more vulnerable as ocean temperatures rise, especially in the polar regions which in the case of the Arctic are seeing some of the greatest change. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2 and it's been associated with earlier rapid climate change, in some cases that almost wiped life out on the planet completely.

The planetary environment is highly dynamic, only a fool advocates seeing how far we can push it out of it's relatively stable current state before it kills us.



That's incorrect, what I said was the divisions that some people believe exist in science are mostly artificial. The same science that's behind modern communications that clearly work are also behind climate change.
So the same science that has brought us particle string theory (unproven) quantum particle physics (unproven) and the theory of relativity (unproven) are also giving us predictions of global warming. There is a lot of 'scientific' theories out there that are as of yet unproven that come from the same science that gives us computers and tells us the sun is hot.

So now take a close look at the graph I posted. You see all those peaks over the last 10,000 years that are significantly higher that today and will only be reached if the current hundred year trend continues for another 1000 years or more which is highly unlikely based upon the history of 30 year cycles. You may also note that we are presently at an average temperature at the low point that was last seen 5000 years ago. One can hardly help but assume from the history that we will see another degree or two of increasing temperature which humans have obviously survived before and in fact flourished.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I do not refuse to accept that the climate is changing, that is part of life on earth. What i laugh at loudly is those who want my attention and money to overstate the obvious to the average idiot and make him believe that it is coming to get him. Changing what goes on on earth is not possible, lighten up boy and enjoy what time you have left.

Except you ignore the obvious, that's it's the now 7 billion of us that are now the major driver of climate change. The "it's just happening, we can't do nuttin' about it" argument is like blaming god for the person you just killed while driving with a blood-alcohol reading of 0.2.

It's happening because what we're doing, the sensible thing is to figure out how to find a way to preserve modern civilization without eventually killing ourselves. If people truly don't give a damn about what happens to their children and their children then by all means go ahead and support what we're currently doing intentionally. The coal fired power plants and vast oil and gas fields don't build themselves, nor to the trains that run almost constantly to and from the coal fields and power plants in some countries.

I guess if you look on life as one big party and we don't have to worry about tomorrow because we won't be here then what we're doing makes sense. But the people who are going to suffer the worst impacts of our actions are still going to be related to us.

Talk about screwing your kids over.
 

Zipperfish

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Apr 12, 2013
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Except you ignore the obvious, that's it's the now 7 billion of us that are now the major driver of climate change. The "it's just happening, we can't do nuttin' about it" argument is like blaming god for the person you just killed while driving with a blood-alcohol reading of 0.2.

It's happening because what we're doing, the sensible thing is to figure out how to find a way to preserve modern civilization without eventually killing ourselves. If people truly don't give a damn about what happens to their children and their children then by all means go ahead and support what we're currently doing intentionally. The coal fired power plants and vast oil and gas fields don't build themselves, nor to the trains that run almost constantly to and from the coal fields and power plants in some countries.

I guess if you look on life as one big party and we don't have to worry about tomorrow because we won't be here then what we're doing makes sense. But the people who are going to suffer the worst impacts of our actions are still going to be related to us.

Talk about screwing your kids over.

The thing is that we assume that we can do something about it. In my opinion, there is nothing in the history of mankind that shows we are in any way capable of dealing with a potential threat. We can deal with actual threats. Once the sea levels start to rise and the agricultural landscape starts shifting and the permafrost starts to go, we'll doubtless be all over it. But right now, it's a potential threat sitting on top of a bunch of very real threats. Same with the fish. I'm more worried about the fish actually. We have no idea what is going on with the oceans, and we are fishing the crap out of them with hundreds of fish-factory trawlers scraping the ocean floor, and there is never anything in the media about it, and no one knows what is going on out there, and we've already seen in Canada how fast a major fishery can disappear.

As a species, we will simply mulitply and expand as fast as we can until such time as resource depletion, or a virus, or a black swan event knocks us back a few steps or wipes us out completely.

We think, because of our intelligence, that we can change the future, chart a course. But, with global warming, for every one that wants to do soemthing about it, there's somebody else who doesn't. So all that much-vaunted intelligence amounts to nothing. It's a zero sum game, and our behaviour becomes as predictable as a colony of yeast cells multiplying, and ultimately expiring in their own waste, in a beer vat.

That may sound depressing, but I suppose it's another way of saying what Skkokumchuk is getting at. Enjoy waht time you have.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Except you ignore the obvious, that's it's the now 7 billion of us that are now the major driver of climate change.

Wow... Each time that PN has handed you an alternate, you come up with another new and earth shattering variable that proves - beyond shadow of doubt - that your ideas are sound.

That said, if you are suggesting that this is a population problem, why then elect to tax the Western nations in order to support 7 billion?... Doesn't make a lot of sense does it, assuming that the 'problem' is in fact global warming

Talk about screwing your kids over.

I knew it.... "Won't someone please think of the kids!"
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Except you ignore the obvious, that's it's the now 7 billion of us that are now the major driver of climate change. The "it's just happening, we can't do nuttin' about it" argument is like blaming god for the person you just killed while driving with a blood-alcohol reading of 0.2.
Blah, blah blah!!
If people truly don't give a damn about what happens to their children and their children then by all means go ahead and support what we're currently doing intentionally.
If by this you are talking about the debt based currency ponzi scheme the bankers and their puppets in govt are perpetrating on us to ensure a never-ending growth in public debt that even our offspring six generations removed couldn't pay off then yes, we need to make some drastic changes. If you are talking about palm trees growing in northern Alberta, well that hasn't happened for 60 million years and isn't likely to happen again any time soon, though it would be nice to play golf in February instead of dealing with -40.
I guess if you look on life as one big party and we don't have to worry about tomorrow because we won't be here then what we're doing makes sense. But the people who are going to suffer the worst impacts of our actions are still going to be related to us.
See the above response. There are far more dramatic problems than pond hockey season being a bit shorter.
Talk about screwing your kids over.
That's what govts and banks do. That is why I protest our debt-based currency.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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The thing is that we assume that we can do something about it. In my opinion, there is nothing in the history of mankind that shows we are in any way capable of dealing with a potential threat. We can deal with actual threats. Once the sea levels start to rise and the agricultural landscape starts shifting and the permafrost starts to go, we'll doubtless be all over it. But right now, it's a potential threat sitting on top of a bunch of very real threats. Same with the fish. I'm more worried about the fish actually. We have no idea what is going on with the oceans, and we are fishing the crap out of them with hundreds of fish-factory trawlers scraping the ocean floor, and there is never anything in the media about it, and no one knows what is going on out there, and we've already seen in Canada how fast a major fishery can disappear.

As a species, we will simply mulitply and expand as fast as we can until such time as resource depletion, or a virus, or a black swan event knocks us back a few steps or wipes us out completely.

We think, because of our intelligence, that we can change the future, chart a course. But, with global warming, for every one that wants to do soemthing about it, there's somebody else who doesn't. So all that much-vaunted intelligence amounts to nothing. It's a zero sum game, and our behaviour becomes as predictable as a colony of yeast cells multiplying, and ultimately expiring in their own waste, in a beer vat.

That may sound depressing, but I suppose it's another way of saying what Skkokumchuk is getting at. Enjoy waht time you have.

You may be right, but then again we have means of reaching and coordinating people that weren't available just a couple of decades ago. It's only the constant noise by people trying to prevent positive change that's blocking the resolution to this issue I think. For whatever reason they don't want change and don't care that many of us do.

And yes the marine issue is frightening, sharks are rapidly disappearing and most major fish species are also in rapid decline. We need an overall policy that allows further social development while not destroying the ecological foundation of planet...which we are getting close to I think.

I think it's possible to enjoy ourselves while making the necessary changes, it's all in how you look at it. If oil or coal is your life then you probably need to find something else to build it on, the same goes for industrial fishing.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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You may be right, but then again we have means of reaching and coordinating people that weren't available just a couple of decades ago. It's only the constant noise by people trying to prevent positive change that's blocking the resolution to this issue I think. For whatever reason they don't want change and don't care that many of us do.

And yes the marine issue is frightening, sharks are rapidly disappearing and most major fish species are also in rapid decline. We need an overall policy that allows further social development while not destroying the ecological foundation of planet...which we are getting close to I think.

I think it's possible to enjoy ourselves while making the necessary changes, it's all in how you look at it. If oil or coal is your life then you probably need to find something else to build it on, the same goes for industrial fishing.

I'm not opposed to changes but if you want me to change you better find me a cheaper & better way to run my vehicle, heat my house and make $100,000 working 6-7 months a year. Til you solve those 3 problems I'm not inclined to do anything different.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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You may be right, but then again we have means of reaching and coordinating people that weren't available just a couple of decades ago. It's only the constant noise by people trying to prevent positive change that's blocking the resolution to this issue I think. For whatever reason they don't want change and don't care that many of us do.

And yes the marine issue is frightening, sharks are rapidly disappearing and most major fish species are also in rapid decline. We need an overall policy that allows further social development while not destroying the ecological foundation of planet...which we are getting close to I think.

I think it's possible to enjoy ourselves while making the necessary changes, it's all in how you look at it. If oil or coal is your life then you probably need to find something else to build it on, the same goes for industrial fishing.

We are at or past the tipping point for many marine species. Overfishing is the major reason. But they are feeding a market.
The Govts need to lower amounts taken. And also consider massive expansion of fish farming on land.
Not in the oceans until it is proven as safe.
 

B00Mer

Keep Calm and Carry On
Sep 6, 2008
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We are at or past the tipping point for many marine species. Overfishing is the major reason. But they are feeding a market.
The Govts need to lower amounts taken. And also consider massive expansion of fish farming on land.
Not in the oceans until it is proven as safe.

The solution is simple and long overdue..

Engineered Avian Flu Could Kill Half the World's Humans

Dutch Researcher Created A Super-Influenza Virus With The Potential To Kill Millions | Doctor Tipster
 

B00Mer

Keep Calm and Carry On
Sep 6, 2008
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But....but who will pay the tax's to make Global Warming/Cooling/Change
go away?

Half the population is will reduce the use of resources oil, coal, cars on the road, timber, basically a new era and people will change..

Mother Natures Reset.. and honestly, how long before something like this really happens.. by nature or terrorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

It infected 500 million[2] people across the world, including remote Pacific islands and the Arctic, and killed 50 to 100 million of them
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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Scientists Recommend Having Earth Put Down

FORT COLLINS, CO—Claiming that it is the humane thing to do, and that the planet is “just going to suffer” if kept alive any longer, members of the world’s scientific community recommended today that Earth be put down.

“We realize this isn’t the easiest thing to hear, but we’ve run a number of tests and unfortunately there’s really nothing more we can do for Earth at this point,” said leading climatologist Dr. Robert Wyche of Colorado State University’s Department of Atmospheric Science.

“Earth’s ecosystems have hung in there for a while, and you have to hand it to the old gal for staying alive this long, but at this point the chances of a recovery are, I’m sorry to say, incredibly unlikely. It might be time to say goodbye.”

“Earth is in a lot of pain, folks,” Wyche continued. “Time to think about sending it off peacefully, for its own sake.”

While admitting that the prospect of saying goodbye to the terrestrial planet is very difficult, Wyche explained to reporters that letting nature take its course would only prolong the inevitable. Wyche also stressed that if Earth is not put down, humanity would ultimately be responsible for its continuing care, which would be “increasingly difficult as time goes on.”

Scientists reportedly also made several heartfelt assurances that the procedure would be quick and virtually painless.

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