Fed up with Religions Yet?

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I read Mein Kampf years ago but do not recall any such claim.
That's quite funny. Mein Kampf published in what 25, 26?

You do realize that there is 20 years between that and his death right?

Do you have a source for that?
Will his own words suffice?

"The only religion I respect is Islam. The only prophet I admire is the prophet Muhammad."

Adolph Hitler.

Some more words from Hitler...

"Already, you see, the world had fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity. Then we should have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. The Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."

Adolph Hitler.

You see gopher, Hitler didn't like the civility of Christianity.

There all sorts of these quotes in existence. It's what has led some to believe that he didn't actually write Mein Kampf.

I prefer to believe he did, but fully grasp that 20 years is a long time, in which it is quite common for people to change their minds, formulate new theories, feelings and opinions. Guided by experiences, events and personal actions.

That would explain his feelings about the Japanese and Shintoism, another people and religion he admired. Despite the fact that the Japanese were 'mud people'.

To think Mein Kampf is the finite summation of what Hitler felt and believed, is absurd.

Wa Allahu A'lam.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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In staged islamic incidents like this flag burning party you can see the Mossad movie stars who have also performed in Lybia ,Egypt and now Syria. Always the same cheap closeup shots showing ten or twenty protestors out of a purported throng of hundreds or perhaps thousands.
 

gopher

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To Bear,


I did some research on the claim that Hitler so praised Mohammed. I came up with this:


According to an internet search, someone named “Ahmed Huber” claims Hitler said this. That is the citation people are giving for it. “Ahmed Huber (1927-2008) was was a Swiss German journalist, and a convert to Islam, who was active in both Islamist and Far Right politics.” I’m sure we would agree this is a biased source on this subject, given his background.
The alleged original quotation even from Huber is elusive: People are citing an article titled “The mysterious Achmed Huber: Friend to Hitler, Allah and Ibn Ladin?”, in which Huber is so quoted. Upon reference of the original article, I do not find any such instance of Huber quoting Hitler at all. In fact, all I find is recycled neoconservative “Islamofascist” nonsense about the Bosnian Waffen-SS and the German diplomatic ties to the Mufti of Jerusalem.


Conclusion: Someone made up the quote. Unless someone provides a valid source, that is the only conclusion possible.


Note: “Mein Kampf” mentions Islam or Mohammed exactly one time.


While the two Christian denominations maintained missions in Asia and Africa, for the purpose of securing new adherents to the Faith, these same denominations were losing millions and millions of their adherents at home in Europe. These former adherents either gave up religion wholly as a directive force in their lives or they adopted their own interpretation of it. The consequences of this were specially felt in the moral life of the country. In parenthesis it may be remarked that the progress made by the missions in spreading the Christian Faith abroad was only quite modest in comparison with the spread of Mohammedanism.




^ while this is not a trustworthy site the poster does raise a valid question - here is the link:


http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/new_european_fashion




also this:

The International Oracle Syndicate©



When I read Toland's biography of Hitler, I do not recall him saying that Hitler praised Islam or Mohammed at all. I think it is no secret that Hitler signed a non-aggression pact with Turkey and that he had some allies among Aryan tribesmen* in Central Asia during the war, I do not see any credible evidence that he actually praised Mohammed or Islam.


* See Hans Peter Bleuel's EXCELLENT book:







As for his preferences, the historical record clearly and unequivocally shows that Hitler called himself a Catholic.

Hitler on Christianity ~


"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Mein Kampf

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Some quotes from Hitler:

Hitler - 23 March, 1933 :

"The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. ... We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people."

Hitler - 1 Feb, 1933 :

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."

Hitler - 1941 :

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

Hitler - 22 April, 1922 :

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. .. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison."

Hitler - 15 Feb 1933 :

"Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany's fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity. Fourteen years they have gone arm in arm with atheism. At no time was greater damage ever done to Christianity than in those years when the Christian parties ruled side by side with those who denied the very existence of God. "

Hitler - 24 Oct, 1933 :

"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

Hitler - 26 Aug, 1934 :

" National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity."

Hitler - 12 April, 1922 :

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders."

Hitler - 27 October, 1928 :

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian."

Hitler - 23 November, 1939 :

" never lost my belief, in the midst of setbacks which were not spared me during my period of struggle. Providence has had the last word and brought me success."

Hitler - 24 February, 1939 :

"If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians."

http://www.hitler.org...
http://www.nobeliefs.com...

As one can clearly see, Hitler was a Christian and believed the Nazi movement to be a Christian movement, spreading the ideals of Christianity through Europe as the drove the competing Jews from their land.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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To Bear,

I did some research on the claim that Hitler so praised Mohammed. I came up with this:

According to an internet search, someone named “Ahmed Huber” claims Hitler said this. That is the citation people are giving for it. “Ahmed Huber (1927-2008) was was a Swiss German journalist, and a convert to Islam, who was active in both Islamist and Far Right politics.” I’m sure we would agree this is a biased source on this subject, given his background.
The alleged original quotation even from Huber is elusive: People are citing an article titled “The mysterious Achmed Huber: Friend to Hitler, Allah and Ibn Ladin?”, in which Huber is so quoted. Upon reference of the original article, I do not find any such instance of Huber quoting Hitler at all. In fact, all I find is recycled neoconservative “Islamofascist” nonsense about the Bosnian Waffen-SS and the German diplomatic ties to the Mufti of Jerusalem.

Conclusion: Someone made up the quote. Unless someone provides a valid source, that is the only conclusion possible.

Nope.

Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy by Eric Metaxas

Cited as being recorded by Albert Speer, chief architect and Reich Minister of Armaments and Munitions.

Conclusion: Someone has very poor if not biased research skills.

Fail.
 
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gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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~ Albert Speer ~

OK. Now I know what you mean, Bear. Here is the actual quote Hitler said in 1945:



"While, therefore, it is not possible to adhere to rigid principles in dealing with foreign countries and one must always be prepared to adapt one's policy to the changing conditions, it can nevertheless be asserted with confidence that Germany will always recruit her staunchest friends from among those peoples who are actively resistant to Jewish contagion. I am sure that the Japanese, the Chinese and the peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France, in spite of the fact that we are related by blood."

- 2nd April 1945


Albert Speer from Inside The Third Reich. Yes, Hitler did say that about Muslims, but he also said that about Chinese and Japanese. Funny thing is, he acknowledges being related by blood to the Catholic French but makes no such reference to Muslims that way. Thus, his "kinship" with these people are allusions at best - an expedient "kinship" due to possible military alliances (ironically, he said that about Chinese even though they were our allies during WWII !!!) . I do remember when that book came out but regrettably did not read it. Instead I read Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. So yes, you were correct in saying that Hitler did make some reference to having some form of 'kinship' with Muslims - but only as "staunch friends" just he did with others as well.
 

tay

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May 20, 2012
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THE Catholic Church has released the names of 29 Melbourne priests it acknowledges were guilty of sexually abusing children.


The ABC reported last night that of the 59 priests whose victims had been paid compensation, the church had named 29, including repeat offenders Desmond Gannon and Michael Glennon. It would not name the other half, some of whom it said had died before the allegations were made and had not had a chance to defend themselves.

Victorian police, meanwhile, are interviewing one of Australia's worst pedophile priests over new abuse allegations.
Gerald Ridsdale is eligible for parole from late next month after serving a long prison sentence for abusing 30 boys between 1961 and 1987.

Police interviewed the 79-year-old yesterday afternoon over historical child sex abuse matters allegedly committed in the 60s and 70s, when he was working as a Catholic priest.


Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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In answer to your question:

William Wilberforce

Martin Luther King

Mother Theresa

John Paul II

Tommy Douglas

J S Woodsworth

Stanley Knowles

Desmond Tutu

Nope, not even close.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
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New Jersey Catholic Church lobbies to keep victims of abuse silent



In the state of New Jersey, sexual abuse victims only have two years from the time of their 18th birthday to file a claim of abuse. After that? The statute of limitations kick in and they are out of luck.

State Sen. Joseph Vitale (D-19th) wants to do something about that. He is sponsoring legislation that would extend the window for statute of limitations for sexual abuse victims to 30 years.


http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/component/flexicontent/item/55969-new-jersey-catholic-church-spending-big-to-keep-abuse-victims-silent?Itemid=248



But, one organization is quietly spending big money to keep the law from passing:


And they didn't hire any lobbying firm, they went with the well-known Princeton Public Affairs Group:


The New Jersey Catholic Conference, the lobbying arm of the state’s bishops, is getting a little help from one of Trenton’s higher powers.

The bishops, who have been battling bills that would extend the statute of limitations on lawsuits for child sex-abuse cases and a measure that would establish a system for physician-assisted suicide, have hired the prominent State Street firm Princeton Public Affairs Group.


http://blog.nj.com/njv_auditor/2013/06/the_auditor_catholic_bishops_h.html



The Catholic Church has successfully beaten back such proposals in many states, arguing that it is difficult to get reliable evidence when decades have passed and that the changes seem more aimed at bankrupting the church than easing the pain of victims.

Ahhh, it's about money. Forget about justice for the victims of yesteryear. Forget about protecting children from future abuse. This is about preserving their fortune, even at the expense of sexual abuse victims.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/us/sex-abuse-statutes-of-limitation-stir-battle.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&




 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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To Bear,


I did some research on the claim that Hitler so praised Mohammed. I came up with this:


According to an internet search, someone named “Ahmed Huber” claims Hitler said this. That is the citation people are giving for it. “Ahmed Huber (1927-2008) was was a Swiss German journalist, and a convert to Islam, who was active in both Islamist and Far Right politics.” I’m sure we would agree this is a biased source on this subject, given his background.
The alleged original quotation even from Huber is elusive: People are citing an article titled “The mysterious Achmed Huber: Friend to Hitler, Allah and Ibn Ladin?”, in which Huber is so quoted. Upon reference of the original article, I do not find any such instance of Huber quoting Hitler at all. In fact, all I find is recycled neoconservative “Islamofascist” nonsense about the Bosnian Waffen-SS and the German diplomatic ties to the Mufti of Jerusalem.


Conclusion: Someone made up the quote. Unless someone provides a valid source, that is the only conclusion possible.


Note: “Mein Kampf” mentions Islam or Mohammed exactly one time.


While the two Christian denominations maintained missions in Asia and Africa, for the purpose of securing new adherents to the Faith, these same denominations were losing millions and millions of their adherents at home in Europe. These former adherents either gave up religion wholly as a directive force in their lives or they adopted their own interpretation of it. The consequences of this were specially felt in the moral life of the country. In parenthesis it may be remarked that the progress made by the missions in spreading the Christian Faith abroad was only quite modest in comparison with the spread of Mohammedanism.




^ while this is not a trustworthy site the poster does raise a valid question - here is the link:


http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/new_european_fashion




also this:

The International Oracle Syndicate©



When I read Toland's biography of Hitler, I do not recall him saying that Hitler praised Islam or Mohammed at all. I think it is no secret that Hitler signed a non-aggression pact with Turkey and that he had some allies among Aryan tribesmen* in Central Asia during the war, I do not see any credible evidence that he actually praised Mohammed or Islam.


* See Hans Peter Bleuel's EXCELLENT book:







As for his preferences, the historical record clearly and unequivocally shows that Hitler called himself a Catholic.

Hitler on Christianity ~


"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Mein Kampf

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Some quotes from Hitler:

Hitler - 23 March, 1933 :

"The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. ... We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people."

Hitler - 1 Feb, 1933 :

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."

Hitler - 1941 :

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

Hitler - 22 April, 1922 :

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. .. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison."

Hitler - 15 Feb 1933 :

"Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany's fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity. Fourteen years they have gone arm in arm with atheism. At no time was greater damage ever done to Christianity than in those years when the Christian parties ruled side by side with those who denied the very existence of God. "

Hitler - 24 Oct, 1933 :

"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

Hitler - 26 Aug, 1934 :

" National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity."

Hitler - 12 April, 1922 :

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders."

Hitler - 27 October, 1928 :

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian."

Hitler - 23 November, 1939 :

" never lost my belief, in the midst of setbacks which were not spared me during my period of struggle. Providence has had the last word and brought me success."

Hitler - 24 February, 1939 :

"If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians."

http://www.hitler.org...
http://www.nobeliefs.com...

As one can clearly see, Hitler was a Christian and believed the Nazi movement to be a Christian movement, spreading the ideals of Christianity through Europe as the drove the competing Jews from their land.


So we should judge a religion not by the content of its sacred texts, but by how whoever decides to interpret them?
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
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Regina, SK
In general,yes. Without people interpreting the text and using it to guide their behaviour, it's just another book of mythology with a certain historical and sociological interest. How else can one judge a religion except by the behaviour of its adherents?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,270
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Low Earth Orbit
The message in the Bible is clear as a bell for those who actually read it themselves. When people are TOLD how to interpret the text, it all goes haywire.
 
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Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Ottawa, ON
In general,yes. Without people interpreting the text and using it to guide their behaviour, it's just another book of mythology with a certain historical and sociological interest. How else can one judge a religion except by the behaviour of its adherents?

Then you're not actually judging the religion itself, but its adherents' interpretation thereof, since each person may have his own interpretation.