POLL: Should a Grade 12 Education Be Mandatory?

[talloola]

Still based on experience and knowledge of geometry and physics, like I say, somebody WITHOUT or little.

There is no way in hell somebody without or little would beat somebody with the foreknowledge of the outcome of a certain action.

the pool thing proved my point, the person who had to measure everything, and the person who has the
built in measurements allready in their head.

both would get the job done, but the geometry wiz would be too slow, and after he measured 'for the shot'
he wants to take, then he has to execute the shot, which means he has to shoot the ball exactly along
the line he measured, that would be his downfall, as the other guy finds that line much easier with
his built in skills.

 

[petros]

Everything isn't all about what grade one passed, all of us older folks know that, we have seen it
over and over.

In the first couple posts of this thread the argument of "grade' was already brought up. Call it a proficiency level.

Sure with grade 9 and practical experience he probably would certainly been above the "proficiency level".

He obviously honed his skills through practical ways just as millions of youth do.

You don't think that there wouldn't be practical experience attached to somebody proficient enough to pass a mandatory requirement level?

That would be one very drab child if all they had was knowledge without experience and wisdom.

the pool thing proved my point, the person who had to measure everything, and the person who has the
built in measurements allready in their head.

both would get the job done, but the geometry wiz would be too slow, and after he measured 'for the shot'
he wants to take, then he has to execute the shot, which means he has to shoot the ball exactly along
the line he measured, that would be his downfall, as the other guy finds that line much easier with
his built in skills.

You can't play pool without geometry and both have to calculate in their noggin the angle/spin/rebound/deflection of the shot.

One would be guessing the outcome the other would have foresight of the outcome and far faster in choosing the shot.

 

[JLM]

What exactly is a "grade 12" education? It's different from school to school. Most employers don't care what education you have but rather how you got that education. If you don't know "than" from "then", I suggest you don't have a grade 12 education even though you may have sat in a grade 12 classroom. Besides is it necessary to operate a nail gun?

 

[Tonington]

Most employers don't care what education you have but rather how you got that education.

Most? Umm no most employers do care what education you have. Those in your generation could have a good career with only high school education. That's not true at all for my generation. The job I was hired to do asked for a Bachelors degree or higher, but I could have easily performed everything expected of me with just my community college diploma. Though I'm glad I did go further because I don't think I would have been able to get the promotions since then, or perform as well in positions with higher expectations with only the community college education.

Employers don't want to spend time and resources training all of their employees. They want their employees to arrive with certain skill sets already.

 

[JLM]

Most? Umm no most employers do care what education you have. Those in your generation could have a good career with only high school education. That's not true at all for my generation. The job I was hired to do asked for a Bachelors degree or higher, but I could have easily performed everything expected of me with just my community college diploma. Though I'm glad I did go further because I don't think I would have been able to get the promotions since then, or perform as well in positions with higher expectations with only the community college education.

Employers don't want to spend time and resources training all of their employees. They want their employees to arrive with certain skill sets already.

It's the "grade 12" that I take issue with, of course a plumber would want you to be literate but would he really give a rat's a$$ if you've read "Romeo and Juliet", which was a necessity for my grade 12 diploma.

 

[talloola]

In the first couple posts of this thread the argument of "grade' was already brought up. Call it a proficiency level.

Sure with grade 9 and practical experience he probably would certainly been above the "proficiency level".

He obviously honed his skills through practical ways just as millions of youth do.

You don't think that there wouldn't be practical experience attached to somebody proficient enough to pass a mandatory requirement level?

That would be one very drab child if all they had was knowledge without experience and wisdom.


You can't play pool without geometry and both have to calculate in their noggin the angle/spin/rebound/deflection of the shot.

One would be guessing the outcome the other would have foresight of the outcome and far faster in choosing the shot.

you obviously haven't been blessed with excellent hand eye co ordination and an athletic ability to
adabt quickly to most games, 'it is not guessing'.
And,you still don't understand that 'after' measuring and determining the exact
shot that has to be taken,'one must execute the shot', his geometry expertice
didn't give him those skills, that is where the person with the built in talent
to 'see' what has to be done, quickly, and can execute, will have the upper hand.
BUT, if the geometry expert, also has 'those' other skills, then he will be on
even ground with 'my' person, and his geometry skills are not needed at all, just
wastes valuable time, the measurements will be in his head.

 

[#juan]

If I'd had a crystal ball I would have gotten a diploma from college instead of a BA from university. Who ffning knew? They all make a sh#tload of money more than me. And the job I had where i did make a sh$tload of money for most of my life, they could not have cared less what I had. They only cared what I could get others to produce. And for that all you need to understand is people and what motivates them.

YUP, age produces wisdom one could have used 20 f u k ing years ago.

Depends what the diploma was for. if you had diploma from BCIT in electronics a
few years back, you would have had prospective employers lined up waiting for
you to graduate. A generic B.A. just might get you an interview...

 

[JLM]

Most? Umm no most employers do care what education you have. Those in your generation could have a good career with only high school education. That's not true at all for my generation. The job I was hired to do asked for a Bachelors degree or higher, but I could have easily performed everything expected of me with just my community college diploma. Though I'm glad I did go further because I don't think I would have been able to get the promotions since then, or perform as well in positions with higher expectations with only the community college education.

Employers don't want to spend time and resources training all of their employees. They want their employees to arrive with certain skill sets already.

How many methods is there of getting the education you have? A diploma does not prove level of education, all it proves is you probably occupied a room and got 50% on some test (maybe true & false)-

you obviously haven't been blessed with excellent hand eye co ordination and an athletic ability to
adabt quickly to most games, 'it is not guessing'.
And,you still don't understand that 'after' measuring and determining the exact
shot that has to be taken,'one must execute the shot', his geometry expertice
didn't give him those skills, that is where the person with the built in talent
to 'see' what has to be done, quickly, and can execute, will have the upper hand.
BUT, if the geometry expert, also has 'those' other skills, then he will be on
even ground with 'my' person, and his geometry skills are not needed at all, just
wastes valuable time, the measurements will be in his head.

I think with pool, billiards etc. you have to have some "sense" of geometry. If it really depended on thorough knowledge you'd have to use a protractor to play it.

 

[petros]

you obviously haven't been blessed with excellent hand eye co ordination and an athletic ability to
adabt quickly to most games, 'it is not guessing'.

Where do you get the idea of a kid not using and sharping his/her knowledge of geometry while learning geometry wouldn't have any eye hand co-ordination and athletic ability.

What I learned in the classroom came in really handy. 11 years of playing left wing, knowing the outcome of playing the puck off the boards and the puck meeting me where I wanted it to when I dodged my opponent or as a pass to the center before I hit the ice gave me a lot more time to practice dodging or checking my opponents than worrying about stick handling.

Geometry and physics rule the Universe.

What is the cost and investment for the student to learn how the Universe works? 800hrs.

What is the pay off in life?

 

[L Gilbert]

Mandatory gr 12? Sure. Once someone learns how to think and learn, gr 12 should be a snap. Where the public "education" system fails is teaching people how to learn and think. It didn't help that I found textbooks with ridiculous errors in them and some teachers weren't fit to be dishwashers.
In my stint at public school, shop classes and science labs were the best part because they were useful for knowledge and learning how to think.

 

[Goober]

that point will come, his mom isn't ready to go to that phase, she is patient and his/her life
isn't in jeopardy at this point, there is food on the table and a roof over their heads.

He isn't lazy, just trying to get from being a teenager to becoming an adult and he is so aware
of many aspects of life that he is looking out there and it is a bit overwhelming right now.
I think that being in school keeps him from having to make that leap right now, we can all see
that, and there is no need to force him along, he will find his way.

If he was rebellious or had problems with teachers, or other personal problems it would be different,
but he is just 'stalling' right now, a bit worried about what decisions to make for himself for the
future.
His mind will settle soon and will see clearer and be more comfortable about moving forward.

Working would give insight into life. What he learns at the job, talking with others. It seems he is looking at the world and thinking OMG. It would be valuable experience.

 

[Spade]

Mathematics and the hard sciences are crucial in a technological society; but so are history, literature and language(s), and the arts.

 

[Cliffy]

Mathematics and the hard sciences are crucial in a technological society; but so are history, literature and language(s), and the arts.

All are necessary for a well rounded person. Stick to the sciences and you get a square person.

 

[Spade]

Success in life is finding the right round hole.

 

[L Gilbert]

Success in life is being able to adjust to whatever shape of hole.

 

[JLM]

Mathematics and the hard sciences are crucial in a technological society; but so are history, literature and language(s), and the arts.

I would agree that a smattering of the "humanities" doesn't do a person any harm & might just save you a black eye in an altercation!

Success in life is being able to adjust to whatever shape of hole.

That's why I believe in a little adversity for all kids- too many these days are being molly coddled, hence a lot of the suicides from being bullied.

 

[Sal]

Depends what the diploma was for. if you had diploma from BCIT in electronics a
few years back, you would have had prospective employers lined up waiting for
you to graduate. A generic B.A. just might get you an interview...

electronics really isn't my thing...

 

[JLM]

Success in life is finding the right round hole.

Seen a lot of those before we got indoor plumbing- now they are more oval shaped.-

electronics really isn't my thing...

Mine either I'd really rather read a book! The day is near at hand now where you will be able to check your pulse, blood pressure, cholesterol, tri glicerides, with your own cell phone. Within our life time, we'll be able to perform our own autopsy!-

 

[talloola]

Where do you get the idea of a kid not using and sharping his/her knowledge of geometry while learning geometry wouldn't have any eye hand co-ordination and athletic ability.

What I learned in the classroom came in really handy. 11 years of playing left wing, knowing the outcome of playing the puck off the boards and the puck meeting me where I wanted it to when I dodged my opponent or as a pass to the center before I hit the ice gave me a lot more time to practice dodging or checking my opponents than worrying about stick handling.

Geometry and physics rule the Universe.

What is the cost and investment for the student to learn how the Universe works? 800hrs.

What is the pay off in life?

my husband was an excellent hockey player, no geometry in his life, except what is built into his head,
which enabled him to learn all of the angles of the puck off the board just fine, no one with geometry
excellence could have done it better.

Of course geometry is a very positive tool in many aspects of life, not in sports, unless there is a
sport that one needs to pack his geometry tools with him, haven't watched that one yet.

 

[Sal]

Mine either I'd really rather read a book! The day is near at hand now where you will be able to check your pulse, blood pressure, cholesterol, tri glicerides, with your own cell phone. Within our life time, we'll be able to perform our own autopsy!-

Check my link/thread on how they are using Smartphones...it is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/114103-cutting-edge-medical-technology.html