Attawapiskat chief goes on hunger strike

[Ron in Regina]

....A people came over the frozen Bering Strait and developed over 25 thousand years, and you juan think they did not know of each other.

The Bering land bridge was one direction that people coming to North America used
it seems....in many waves over time.

That's one story (theory), I guess.

 

[Cliffy]

A people came over the frozen Bering Strait and developed over 25 thousand years, and you juan think they did not know of each other.
Bremusa

Actually, that has been disproved. People were living here before the last ice age. In order for the Bering Land bridge to be exposed, the sea level dropped 400 feet. The Earth has a finite amount of water. The 1 mile thick glaciers that covered much of the Northern Hemisphere had to come from somewhere. People paddled over or walked along the shoreline. The drop in water also happened on the Atlantic side and many of the aboriginal people on the eastern side of North America have some European DNA.

Also, it has been shown that as far back as 33 thousand years ago, Polynesian and Aborigine people came to South America via the sea. There are African people living in Terra Del Fuego that were there for a long time (thousands of years) before Columbus. The US Geological Society has dated one site in Mexico to be around 250 thousand years (but that has been suppressed because it doesn't fit into the neat package of conventional thought.) Also, the land bridge was probably a two way street as it has been found that the Clovis culture found in New Mexico per-dates the culture in Siberia from where it was formerly thought to have originated.

 

[Bremusa]

Thank you Ron and my new found homey Cliffy
Great stuff Cliffy , you are a great read .
Always thoughtful and always with a humanitarian touch.

I get that from you.

Bremusa

 

[Cliffy]

Thank you Ron and my new found homey Cliffy
Great stuff Cliffy , you are a great read .
Always thoughtful and always with a humanitarian touch.

I get that from you.

Bremusa

Thank you. You are welcome.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

North America was found with almost no people.

It's impossible to know how many people were here before European contact. I've seen estimates ranging from 800 thousand to 25 million. But there are some telling stories. When Hernando de Soto led the first expedition across what is now the southeastern United States in the early 16th century, he found lots of people, towns all over the place, a well-developed system of agriculture and trade, all the things you'd associate with an active and successful civilization. When Rene-Robert Cavelier--better known as La Salle, but that was a title, Sieur de La Salle, not his name--traveled over some of the same territory in the late 17th century, there was almost nobody there. The best explanation is that the European germs de Soto brought, most likely in the herd of pigs that accompanied his group, killed everybody off. Disease traveled faster than settlement, there may have been almost nobody here because things like smallpox and typhus and diphtheria got here first. I've also seen a pretty good case made that the vast herds of bison that used to roam the plains of North America were also an artifact of European contact, a population explosion brought about by the disappearance of the people who were managing the land and resources. Archaeologists find very few bison remains in aboriginal sites prior to about 1700, and plenty after that. For the details I refer you to a most interesting book called 1491 by Charles C. Mann, a book I think everybody on this continent would do well to read.

 

[Colpy]

I stand corrected on Chief Spence risking her life with a hunger strike.
Apparently she is not on a "Hunger Strike" in the truest sense of the words. It is a sort of Nouveau Riche Scarsdale diet.

I now realize that she could well be damaging the Idle No More cause.

Watching a plethora of chiefs live on cbc today I wasn't so much impressed as depressed.

Bremusa

Exactly.

The woman is a fraud, taking $ 167,000 tax free a year out of the band funds.

You call that a

It's impossible to know how many people were here before European contact. I've seen estimates ranging from 800 thousand to 25 million. But there are some telling stories. When Hernando de Soto led the first expedition across what is now the southeastern United States in the early 16th century, he found lots of people, towns all over the place, a well-developed system of agriculture and trade, all the things you'd associate with an active and successful civilization. When Rene-Robert Cavelier--better known as La Salle, but that was a title, Sieur de La Salle, not his name--traveled over some of the same territory in the late 17th century, there was almost nobody there. The best explanation is that the European germs de Soto brought, most likely in the herd of pigs that accompanied his group, killed everybody off. Disease traveled faster than settlement, there may have been almost nobody here because things like smallpox and typhus and diphtheria got here first. I've also seen a pretty good case made that the vast herds of bison that used to roam the plains of North America were also an artifact of European contact, a population explosion brought about by the disappearance of the people who were managing the land and resources. Archaeologists find very few bison remains in aboriginal sites prior to about 1700, and plenty after that. For the details I refer you to a most interesting book called 1491 by Charles C. Mann, a book I think everybody on this continent would do well to read.

Actually, back in the day Dr. Rose McNairn, who was an expert in Latin American and American Indian history, taught that the population of the Americas (North Central and South) in the fifteenth century was probably about 120 million, one quarter of the world's population. By 1600 that number had fallen to twelve million, as Eurpean disease destroyed indigenous populations to a degree never before seen in human history.

 

[CDNBear]

When the Europeans first came here they found numerous groups of people who did not even work metal and could only be described as savages.

Come on Skook. The First Nations were mining stone and soft metals for centuries.

A people who had a complex system of government, oral treaties with other nations, productive agricultural processes, and so on.

That is a bunch of horse---t. I paid good money for the land I have.....so did my dad.......and his dad......

Who did they pay?

I never read any stories about natives clearing land and planting crops.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/RC31-15-2003E.pdf

We actually cleared the land, built the grist mills, and infrastructure, before the land was actually stolen from us.

The natives relied on their luck at hunting and fishing.

LOL.

Europeans brought wool blankets and rifles that kept a few of natives from freezing and starving.

LOL.

Troll.

Cliffy that is ridiculous. North America was found with almost no people.

Geezus you need to go back to school.

A few hundred thousand natives couldn't possibly govern or even understand the size of the continent.

Is that why the US based the Constitution on the Haudenosaunee Constitution and took many of the our systems of government and applied them to their own?

Is that why western exploration was only possible with the help of First Nation guides who had knowledge of the areas?

Resources?

Yes resources.

even the Europeans couldn't know what resources there were, other than trapping, timber, and the more obvious mining opportunities that weren't exploited for decades.

That's funny seeing how the first nations from the arctic circle to the southern tip of south america were mining for centuries before European settlement.

To be completely fair...the Iroquois and Mohicans among others were quite prodigious. As well, they had a system of democracy and many thousands of people per tribe (particularly throughout the original thirteen states). However, they were all wiped out, and like you said, had very little knowledge of the resources at hand.

We were wiped out?

Oh crap that's news to me, Ohkwai, of the Onondaga, Haudenosaunee (Read; "Iroquois" a derogatory French slang for "group of snakes")

Pleased to meet you.

As for our little knowledge of the resources at hand, we mined, harvested timber, utilized aquaculture/agriculture, changed our surroundings to meet our needs, and so on.

The culture no longer exists. So why are we defending a culture which no longer exists and causes hardship?

I'll answer that when you clear up the inconsistency.

If it no longer exists, how does it cause hardship?

I was raised by traditionals, we lived very much by the "old ways". Not only was it something I look back on with great fondness and wonderful memories, I long for those days terribly so.

So because the British wouldn't negotiate with me I get nothing?

You didn't have a contract, we did.

Wrap your head around that and get back to me.

So it's ok to be racist against a Gaelic person because he has no treaties?

LOL, racism.

Holy **** reverse racism in its extreme right there!

No it isn't, but thanks for the laughs.

What did current Aboriginals ACTUALLY lose?

Land, resources, lives, culture, history, dignity.

My god...so blind.

Yes, your posts are.

 

[SLM]

Stephen Harper to meet with First Nations leaders Jan. 11 | Canada | News | Ottawa Sun

We were wiped out?

Oh crap that's news to me, Ohkwai, of the Onondaga, Haudenosaunee (Read; "Iroquois" a derogatory French slang for "group of snakes")

As for our little knowledge of the resources at hand, we mined, harvested timber, utilized aquaculture, worked the land, and so on.

I'll answer that when you clear up the inconsistency.

If it no longer exists, how does it cause hardship?

I was raised by traditionals, we lived very much by the "old ways". Not was it something I look back at with great fondness and wonderful memories, I long for the days terribly so.

You didn't have a contract.

LOL, racism.

No it isn't, but thanks for the laughs.

Land, resources, lives, culture, history, dignity.

Yes, your posts are.

I've been waiting for this reply since I first saw his posts, lol.

Didn't disappoint.

Documents show plenty of money flowing through Chief Theresa Spence's reserve | Canada | News | Ottawa Sun

"There are issues such as lack of accountability on reserves, such as lack of governance and giving power into the hands of grassroots aboriginal people and not the chiefs and band councils - we're not hearing any of that," Conservative Senator Patrick Brazeau told QMI Agency. Brazeau is an Algonquin Indian and says he has tried to meet with Spence himself. "I feel that a lot of the Idle No More movement is, in effect, a smoke screen because of the accountability legislation in particular that the Conservatives passed that will force band chiefs and councils to disclose salaries and expenses from this day forward."

The Conservative accountability legislation will solve all ills, blah, blah, blah....I would expect that rhetoric from a Conservative Senator BUT it doesn't negate the fact that there is truth behind the statement that there is a lack of accountability on some reserves the same as there is a glaring lack of accountability from any government, Conservative ones included.

When you are a leader, I don't care of what, the buck stops with you. That is the cost of being a leader, period. All of this back and forth, she's to blame, no wait the government is to blame, no wait the band council is to blame does absolutely nothing whatsoever to actually fix the very real problems in Attawapiskat. It's well past the time that they all stopped the pissing contest that they're in and got to work solving the problems.

 

[JLM]

Nice to see a thread that provides a few chuckles. I guess the aboriginals paid the same people for their land that the original Greeks, Romans and Egyptians paid for theirs. As far as who is the most advanced, I'd say the aboriginal were more advanced than the Europeans mainly because they could live and survive better simply by making the best use of what Nature provides. Aboriginals also left a smaller "footprint" than the Europeans.

 

[CDNBear]

I've been waiting for this reply since I first saw his posts, lol.

Sorry, I was busy, lol.

Didn't disappoint.

Thanks... ;-)

The Conservative accountability legislation will solve all ills, blah, blah, blah....I would expect that rhetoric from a Conservative Senator BUT it doesn't negate the fact that there is truth behind the statement that there is a lack of accountability on some reserves the same as there is a glaring lack of accountability from any government, Conservative ones included.

Sadly true, and it's been a real fight to get some. I first started that battle back in the 90's. It was uphill the whole way and I finally had to take a pass after it became a detriment to my personal life.

When you are a leader, I don't care of what, the buck stops with you. That is the cost of being a leader, period. All of this back and forth, she's to blame, no wait the government is to blame, no wait the band council is to blame does absolutely nothing whatsoever to actually fix the very real problems in Attawapiskat. It's well past the time that they all stopped the pissing contest that they're in and got to work solving the problems.

A third party audit would have been a good start.

Aboriginals also left a smaller "footprint" than the Europeans.

Not really. We just changed feet when one found itself surrounded by barren land.

 

[SLM]

Sorry, I was busy, lol.

Me too. My son left on Friday but he forgot to take his cold with him when he went.

Blah!

Sadly true, and it's been a real fight to get some. I first started that battle back in the 90's. It was uphill the whole way and I finally had to take a pass after it became a detriment to my personal life.

Of course. When you have someone, or someones, in a position of power and they are abusing that power for their own benefit, they aren't likely to give that up without a fight.

The old phrase "You can't fight City Hall" comes to mind. While you indeed can fight city hall it is usually one hell of a battle!

A third party audit would have been a good start.

Yes it would have been.

 

[JLM]

I stand corrected on Chief Spence risking her life with a hunger strike.
Apparently she is not on a "Hunger Strike" in the truest sense of the words. It is a sort of Nouveau Riche Scarsdale diet.

I now realize that she could well be damaging the Idle No More cause.

Watching a plethora of chiefs live on cbc today I wasn't so much impressed as depressed.

Bremusa

If you want to get hung up on semantics................ you may want to check out the calories in tea and broth!

 

[captain morgan]

Documents show plenty of money flowing through Chief Theresa Spence's reserve | Canada | News | Ottawa Sun

The Conservative accountability legislation will solve all ills, blah, blah, blah....I would expect that rhetoric from a Conservative Senator BUT it doesn't negate the fact that there is truth behind the statement that there is a lack of accountability on some reserves the same as there is a glaring lack of accountability from any government, Conservative ones included.

The numbers don't lie (as you well know SLM). With any luck, Harper will take the prudent position of meeting with Spence and talking specifically about the expenditure side of the equation at Attawapiskat and bring the gvt docs that suggest the value of the fund(s) that have been delivered to date to that community.

Quite frankly, I think that Spence is cutting her own throat on this now that she has thrust herself onto center stage... Too many people, including those in her community will be asking some pretty inconvenient questions and no amount of PR stunts will deflect the issue anymore.

 

[DaSleeper]

The "Idle no more" demonstration picked a good day yesterday here in Kap....it was only -5
From my perspective, it seemed to be a quiet dmonstration.....

Idle No More Comes to Kapuskasing

 

[#juan]

It's impossible to know how many people were here before European contact. I've seen estimates ranging from 800 thousand to 25 million. But there are some telling stories. When Hernando de Soto led the first expedition across what is now the southeastern United States in the early 16th century, he found lots of people, towns all over the place, a well-developed system of agriculture and trade, all the things you'd associate with an active and successful civilization. When Rene-Robert Cavelier--better known as La Salle, but that was a title, Sieur de La Salle, not his name--traveled over some of the same territory in the late 17th century, there was almost nobody there. The best explanation is that the European germs de Soto brought, most likely in the herd of pigs that accompanied his group, killed everybody off. Disease traveled faster than settlement, there may have been almost nobody here because things like smallpox and typhus and diphtheria got here first. I've also seen a pretty good case made that the vast herds of bison that used to roam the plains of North America were also an artifact of European contact, a population explosion brought about by the disappearance of the people who were managing the land and resources. Archaeologists find very few bison remains in aboriginal sites prior to about 1700, and plenty after that. For the details I refer you to a most interesting book called 1491 by Charles C. Mann, a book I think everybody on this continent would do well to read.

Exactly. The land that Columbus found was very different than what it was sixty years later. The natives had no immunity to European deseases that wiped out vast numbers of the indigenous people. Settlers coming west accross what is now Canada report that they ran across very few natives but we know from archaeological findings that the native population was once a lot greater.

It's funny though on who ALL explorers relied on for information.
Lewis and Clark, Champlain, the voyageurs. ALL of them juan.

A people came over the frozen Bering Strait and developed over 25 thousand years, and you juan think they did not know of each other.

Do you ever get tired juan ,of just posting this made up as you think history,(lol) of the Native Peoples.
Your a hoot juan.


Now it would be impossible for the Natives to know the value Europeans put on everything from fish,fur pelts, to gold to vast amounts of land, but the Native people did know how the land and it's gifts were worthy of thanks.


Bremusa

The people who came across the Bering Strait more than likely became our aboriginal people. Further than that is speculation.

And yes, I do get tired of sarcastic "know it alls" who think they have a corner on all knowledge.

 

[petros]

The "Idle no more" demonstration picked a good day yesterday here in Kap....it was only -5
From my perspective, it seemed to be a quiet dmonstration.....

Idle No More Comes to Kapuskasing

Were they moonbeam, dream catcher in the rear view mirror, Twilight saga watching types or the real McCoy?

 

[taxslave]

Beating drums and smudging are not just traditions. They are cultural and spiritual. They are part of their identity. Very few Canadian aboriginal people lost a war. Most were conned into signing treaties that were broken many times over. They were given the crappiest land in their territory for their reservations and if that land later turned out to be valuable to governments or corporations, those reserves were taken away and they were placed on even crappier land.

Canada was built by exploiting the resources it stole from the aboriginal people and treaty payments are nothing more than a fraction of the value of those resources extracted.

Yep all that waterfront property is for sure the crappiest land .

 

[Walter]

Who are the bigots gerryh?

Yeah, name names.

 

[petros]

The people who came across the Bering Strait more than likely became our aboriginal people. Further than that is speculation.

Have a gander at the lifestyle, arts/crafts, tools, clothing and physical looks of indigenous people (Chukchis) of E.Siberia. I doubt it was a one time move but people bouncing back and forth for thousands and thousands of years.

 

[taxslave]

It's funny though on who ALL explorers relied on for information.
Lewis and Clark, Champlain, the voyageurs. ALL of them juan.

A people came over the frozen Bering Strait and developed over 25 thousand years, and you juan think they did not know of each other.



Bremusa

That is not entirely true. There is a distinctive Polynesian influence in west coast natives, suggesting that there was more than one wave of immigrants.