Israel launches Gaza offensive, kills Hamas commander

[Serryah]

You're still biased. You support some of the most violent, hate-filled people on the planet all the while pointing a finger at Israel (again, while trying tell us that you support their right to defend themselves, which again, is contradictory to say the least).

You seemed to be under the impression I support Palestine? News flash for you, and here it is, I'll bold it for you:

I DO NOT SUPPORT EITHER SIDE - NOT PALESTINE, NOT ISRAEL - IN ANY OF THIS.

Until BOTH sides stop all this back and forth terrorism and warfare, NEITHER side has my sympathy or empathy or anything. They have only disgust and condemnation.

I do not want anyone Jewish or Israeli to lay down and die for Palestinians. I do not want any Palestinians to lay down and die for any Israeli. History does not matter in any of this because it doesn't. It's now a "Revenge" thing and that's ALL it is. Neither side has learned at all that Revenge solves nothing.

Yes, Palestine has targeted civilians and they have died (but hey that's a cost of war, as you said, right?). It's wrong and beyond wrong and needs to stop. They need to stop glorifying the deaths of people and using it as an excuse for retaliation against Israel. They need to stop attacking "in the name of____" and realize that it solves nothing, and never will.

But unlike you I can also say that Yes, Israel has targeted military targets and because Hamas are cowards innocent civilians are killed and that's wrong too. And yet it's not just Hamas that's wrong (nae, evil) for what they've done, it's also Israel to step up and retaliate KNOWING that this is going to happen. I mean, how can they not? It's been a wash, rinse, repeat scenario for years now. Instead of finding another way to take out these targets without the deaths and casualties, they attack with tanks and air strikes which take out the target, but also the innocent civilians (unless you believe all Palestinians are guilty in which case this convo is long done).

And the rest of the world can either step up and force the issue, or step back and let them destroy themselves; personally I'd rather see the world step back and say "Have At!"

After all this, I guess I can also admit that yes, you're right. I DON'T want Israel to defend itself, but I also DON'T want Palestine to defend itself either. Things would be much better that way.

 

[darkbeaver]

When the illegal occupation ends the crap ends. Why is that so hard to grasps?

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Listen to you Teacher for once.

Did you really have to reproduce his crap again? And he believes every word of it. Holy smoke he's the most feared demon of them all, blissful ignorance with legs. To think the future of the world rests with his cult is a mental abomination.

You seemed to be under the impression I support Palestine? News flash for you, and here it is, I'll bold it for you:

I DO NOT SUPPORT EITHER SIDE - NOT PALESTINE, NOT ISRAEL - IN ANY OF THIS.

Until BOTH sides stop all this back and forth terrorism and warfare, NEITHER side has my sympathy or empathy or anything. They have only disgust and condemnation.

I do not want anyone Jewish or Israeli to lay down and die for Palestinians. I do not want any Palestinians to lay down and die for any Israeli. History does not matter in any of this because it doesn't. It's now a "Revenge" thing and that's ALL it is. Neither side has learned at all that Revenge solves nothing.

Yes, Palestine has targeted civilians and they have died (but hey that's a cost of war, as you said, right?). It's wrong and beyond wrong and needs to stop. They need to stop glorifying the deaths of people and using it as an excuse for retaliation against Israel. They need to stop attacking "in the name of____" and realize that it solves nothing, and never will.

But unlike you I can also say that Yes, Israel has targeted military targets and because Hamas are cowards innocent civilians are killed and that's wrong too. And yet it's not just Hamas that's wrong (nae, evil) for what they've done, it's also Israel to step up and retaliate KNOWING that this is going to happen. I mean, how can they not? It's been a wash, rinse, repeat scenario for years now. Instead of finding another way to take out these targets without the deaths and casualties, they attack with tanks and air strikes which take out the target, but also the innocent civilians (unless you believe all Palestinians are guilty in which case this convo is long done).

And the rest of the world can either step up and force the issue, or step back and let them destroy themselves; personally I'd rather see the world step back and say "Have At!"

After all this, I guess I can also admit that yes, you're right. I DON'T want Israel to defend itself, but I also DON'T want Palestine to defend itself either. Things would be much better that way.

So you would give Goliath leave to exterminate David. The brow beating you have taken from In Between Man broke your resolve to see justice done and you are prepared to make a compromise with genocidal maniacs in the name of nonexistant equality of arms. That's what Israeli sympathizers do they beat us down with legalisms and force compromise with evil and they call that a balanced rational arrangement.

 

[Spade]

A compassionate gawd would not be on the side of the leadership of either side. What a bloody horror! And our government chooses sides!?

 

[Cliffy]

A compassionate gawd would not be on the side of the leadership of either side. What a bloody horror! And our government chooses sides!?

Perhaps because our government is a bloody horror. Harper and crew are in the same mindset as Alleywayz. Gawd save us from your followers!

 

[Serryah]

So you would give Goliath leave to exterminate David. The brow beating you have taken from In Between Man broke your resolve to see justice done and you are prepared to make a compromise with genocidal maniacs in the name of nonexistant equality of arms. That's what Israeli sympathizers do they beat us down with legalisms and force compromise with evil and they call that a balanced rational arrangement.

I'm not gonna repeat myself; if you think that's what I'm saying, sure, go for it, whatever floats your boat.

I didn't get a browbeating from In Between Man, either, sorry to burst that bubble for you. Nor did he break my resolve to see justice done (Justice in this situation, btw, will NEVER be done, both sides have seen to that) and I certainly am not compromising with any maniac on either side. But if the maniac's on either side want to beat the holy tar out of each other, that's their issue and their stupidity.

 

[CDNBear]

Beware of 'Pallywood' Magic

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/90546-pallywood.html

 

[earth_as_one]

I've followed this conflict for years, dug into the details, researched the history... and more or less came to the same conclusions as Serrah.

I do support a side though. I am on the side of innocent people on both sides caught in this middle of the senseless violence. In the case of Palestinians, senseless violence and the additional indignities associated with collective punishment (leading to poverty), cruel oppression and injustice.

I am on the side of this Palestinian woman in this story below and everyone who shares her attitude:

Israelis and Gazans: Don’t buy your leaders’ rhetoric
As the fog of war distort people’s vision and compassion, can both the Israeli and Palestinian public reject the strategy of violence offered by their leaderships?

Just days before the current escalation in violence, I encountered a young Gazan art student living ‘illegally’ in the West Bank because Israel would not allow her to change her address.

With her precarious existence as a kind of fugitive in her own land, which had made her unable to visit her besieged hometown for over seven years, and in light of Israel’s blockade of Gaza and its 2008-9 invasion, I asked her how she felt about Israelis.

“I am a human and believe in humanity, regardless of religion, nationality or race. We are all humans. I will not let this affect me,” the art student said, surprising me with the simple intensity of her conviction.

As I watch with rising alarm the fog of imminent war distort people’s vision and compassion, I cannot help but recall this conversation. I wonder whether this young woman is managing to cling on to her admirable compassion and humility, when those around her are losing theirs, or has it too fallen victim to this senseless confrontation?

The first victim of war, it is rightly said, is truth, but its second casualty is humanity. The demonization, hatred, vitriol and jingoism that has been fired indiscriminately and disproportionately in recent days has been troubling. Personally, though I have felt fury at Israel’s vicious “send Gaza back to the middle ages” military offensive against a captive civilian population – not to mention anger with Palestinian militants for also targeting civilians – I am determined not to allow this to darken my view of ordinary Israelis. ...

The rest here:
Israelis and Gazans: Don

I agree with the above sentiments. I'll also add that the action of Palestinian war criminals should be allowed to darken our view of ordinary Palestinians.

 

[CDNBear]

I've followed this conflict for years, dug into the details, researched the history... and more or less came to the same conclusions as Serrah.

Your BS aside. Your views are nothing like Serryah's.

But I like your last minute edit, lol. Your dishonesty is funny...

Keep making sense like that Serrah and soon you will earn the joo-hater label.

I've rad Serryah's posts as limited as they are, for awhile. Nothing she has said can be taken as being hatred of one group or the other. She has been consistent in her hatred of the violence committed.

Now you on the other hand.

I do support a side though. It the side of the innocent people on both sides caught in this middle of the senseless violence and in the case of Palestinians, the additional indignities associated with collective punishment (leading to poverty), cruel oppression and injustice.

See, you just proved it.

 

[earth_as_one]

I predicted two days ago that ground forces would be in by now. Israel must be under intense pressure from inside and out not to go into Gaza, but instead focus on air strikes on missile launch sites... Which I support...

Rockets and missiles fired at civilians are war crimes. Rockets and missiles fired at command, communications and combat forces are not.

Simple rules.

No one can seriously deny either sides right to neutralize this threat to their civilian population.

IMo, this attack might be a war crime.


Seven Palestinian civilians were killed in air strikes Sunday, including five children ranging in age from one to 11, according to Ashraf al-Kidra, a Gaza health official.

Smoke rises after a strike by Israeli forces on Gaza City on Sunday. The Israeli military has widened its range of targets in the Gaza Strip to include the media operations of the Palestinian territory's Hamas rulers. (Bernat Armangue/Associated Press)Two of the children, a three-year-old girl and a five-year-old boy, were from the same family and were killed by an air strike on a three-storey home in the town of Beit Lahiya. Hamas security officials said three missiles struck the house, owned by a Gaza family with links to militants' rocket squads.

Israel widens strikes on Gaza as Tel Aviv targeted anew
Forces 'prepared to significantly expand' operations on Hamas-controlled territory
The Associated Press
Posted: Nov 18, 2012
Israel widens strikes on Gaza as Tel Aviv targeted anew - World - CBC News

Bombing someone's home might cross the same line as a suicide bomber going into a popular nightclub frequented by off duty Israeli soldiers. The risk of harming innocent civilians is too high.

A rocket fired at Tel Aviv, Jerusalem or any concentration of civilians is a war crime. Both sides must restrict their activity to military targets.

 

[CDNBear]

The Israeli military has widened its range of targets in the Gaza Strip to include the media operations of the Palestinian territory's Hamas rulers.

Legitimate military target.

Hamas security officials said three missiles struck the house, owned by a Gaza family with links to militants' rocket squads.

Legitimate military target.

Your opinion is based on nothing but emotion and the erroneous opinions of AI and the Red Cross.

Both sides must restrict their activity to military targets.

Only one side does.

 

[Dixie Cup]

I, for one, support Isreal's right to self-defense. I suspect that, since things were so quiet and not much made the news recently, Hamas figured it was time to "ramp" things up a bit, despite knowing that Isreal is the stronger of the two and that Isreal can reap more damage, even while trying to hit pertinent targets and not aiming directly at civilians, unlike the Hamas..

Rationally, it makes the Hamas stupid for even trying, but it also brings out the Isreali hatemongers to sympathize about the "killing of innocents" by the Isreali's despite the fact that the the Hamas instigated it to begin with. Guess who inevitably suffers? And Hamas KNOW this and that's what they want. They could care a less about their civilians!! What a crazy world we live in.

Propaganda works both ways but I believe there's enough evidence out there that will support Isreal's contention that they've tried, and tried, and tried to make peace. However, when the opposition is determined to totally destroy the country and teach their young that the Jews are "Monkeys' and that the Jews are to blame for everyhting, peace is still a long way off.

Please note that I have tried to stay away from saying "Palestinians" because they are victims too - of Hamas and NOT the Isreali's. I suspect that with the brain-washing done by Hamas the "regular" Palestinians don't know any better and are clueless as to what, in fact, is taking place and what the truth is out there. While Isreal isn't perfect, the leaders of the Palestinians are disingenuous and dangerous. At least Isreal prosecutes individuals who step out of line - you don't see that in Palestine!!

I just pray that Isreal stays strong.

JMO

 

[petros]

Propaganda works both ways but I believe there's enough evidence out there that will support Isreal's contention that they've tried, and tried, and tried to make peace.

44 years of "pack up your jewHauls and get off our land" but not budging is trying and trying and trying? They should try and try and try harder by packing their jewHauls and getting out. Simple.

 

[Blackleaf]

Israel isn't a country, it is an occupying power without borders. That is exactly the same status as pirates mercenaries and aliens.

What is Israel "occupying" what the countries surrounding it aren't?

You're the expert on the history of that area and the creation of that area's nation states, so educate me.

The past can only condemn Israel. Israel should look to its future if it has one. I don't think it does and neither do the bankers and the crimes who wish to hide in its ashes. In between man and what?

Who was it who started this current situation by first firing rockets in the first place?

A: Israel
B: Hamas

I'll give you a little clue - it wasn't Israel.

You didn't even attempt to meet my challenge of demonstrating that "Palestine" has ever been a real nation. THAT'S BECAUSE YOU CANNOT.

I agree. There has never been a nation state known as Palestine. There was the British Mandate for Palestine, which was formed by the British in 1920 out of Ottoman Syria after the British Empire defeated the Ottoman Empire in WWI. The British Mandate for Palestine was not a sovereign nation state and it existed for just 28 years when, in 1948, it came to an end by splitting into two parts: the western part becoming Israel and the eastern part becoming Jordan. So not only does Israel occupy "Palestine" but so does Jordan. There's never any mention of this, though, by the anti-Israel goons.

However, the supporters of "Palestine" usually fail to mention this, either through complete ignorance or because they like to deliberately spout falsities and just pick on Israel.

On another discussion forum there was one supporter of the "Palestinian" cause who not only said that "Israel is occupying Palestine" but also that "Israel is occupying Syria."

But since I pointed out to him that the "Syria" in question was actually Ottoman Syria and not the modern nation state of Syria and that Lebanon, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, the Gaza Strip, parts of Turkey and Iraq and, of course, Syria also occupy what was once Ottoman Syria he has suddenly become very quiet.

 

[earth_as_one]

... I suspect that, since things were so quiet and not much made the news recently, Hamas figured it was time to "ramp" things up a bit,..

JMO

How did you get that misinformed opinion?

As of October 2012, over 800 rockets had been launched at Israel from Gaza since January 2012
List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Recent Israeli attacks against Palestinians:

04- 10 Oct. 2012

Renewed Israeli Escalation in the Gaza Strip: 1 Palestinian man killed and another wounded, along with 8 civilians, including 4 children and 1 woman

IOF extra-judicially executed a Palestinian man and wounded a second in the southern Gaza Strip.
8 civilian bystanders were wounded, including 4 children and 1 woman.
IOF continued to carry out airstrikes and land attacks on civilian objects in the Gaza Strip.
5 Palestinians were wounded, including 2 children, in shellings, east of Khan Yunis.
2 mosque minarets and a tar factory sustained damages, east of Khan Yunis.
An agricultural warehouse was destroyed and a kindergarten was damaged in the northern Gaza Strip.
IOF continued to target fishermen in the Gaza Strip.
IOF opened fire at Palestinian fishing boats four times, arrested 4 fishermen, and confiscated their boats.
IOF used force to disperse peaceful protests organized by Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.
Dozens of protestors sustained bruising and suffered from tear gas inhalation.
IOF conducted 46 incursions into Palestinian communities in the West Bank and limited incursions in the Gaza Strip.
IOF arrested 8 Palestinians, including the wife of a Palestinian prisoner.
Israel has continued to impose a total closure on the oPt and has isolated the Gaza Strip from the outside world.

18- 23 Oct. 2012
4 members of Palestinian resistance groups were killed and 9 others were wounded in the northern Gaza Strip.
IOF continued to target fishermen in the Gaza Strip.
PCHR documented 4 attacks on Palestinian fishing boats.
4 fishermen were arrested and their fishing boats were confiscated off al-Sudaniya shore, north of Gaza City.
IOF used force to disperse peaceful protests organized by Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.
Dozens of protestors sustained bruising and suffered from tear gas inhalation.
IOF conducted 40 incursions into Palestinian communities in the West Bank and 3 limited incursions in the northern Gaza Strip.
IOF arrested 5 Palestinians in the West Bank.
Israel has continued to impose a total closure on the oPt and has isolated the Gaza Strip from the outside world.
IOF established dozens of checkpoints in the West Bank.

24 Oct. -07 Nov. 2012
The IOF killed a Palestinian civilian suffering from epilepsy in the central Gaza Strip
2 Palestinian resistance members were killed by an airstrike in the Gaza Strip
A Palestinian policeman and a resistance member were wounded in the northern Gaza Strip
12 civilians were wounded, including a child, in the Hares village, north of the West Bank.

08 -13 Nov. 2012
OF killed 6 Palestinian civilians, including 3 children, and two members of the Palestinian resistance in the Gaza Strip.
52 Palestinian civilians, including 12 children and 6 women, were wounded by IOF in the Gaza Strip.
IOF launched a series of aerial and ground attacks on the Gaza Strip
A number of civilian facilities were destroyed and a number of houses were damaged.
The IOF used force to disperse peaceful protests organized by Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.
6 Palestinian civilians, including 3 children and a woman, and an Italian human rights defender were wounded.


Palestinian Center for Human Rights

Then the incident referenced in the O:

Wed Nov 14, 2012
(Reuters) - Israel launched a major offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza on Wednesday, killing the military commander of Hamas in an air strike and threatening an invasion of the enclave that the Islamist group vowed would "open the gates of hell".

Care to post an informed opinion Dixie Cup? Or are you content to spew misinformed nonsense?

...Who was it who started this current situation...

How far back would you like to go?

According to Ian Pappe, ( Jewish Israeli Historian):

...the Israeli state came into being with blood on its hands from lands forcibly seized from its Palestinian inhabitants who’d lived on it for hundreds of years previously. Since the 1940s, they were ethnically cleansed and slaughtered without mercy so their homeland would become one for Jews alone.

The shameful result is that Palestinians then and today have almost no rights including being able to live in peace and security on their own land in their own state that no longer exists. Survivors then and their offspring either live in Israel as unwanted Arab citizens with few rights or in the Occupied Palestinians Territories (OPT) where their lives are suspended in limbo in an occupied country in which they’re subjected to daily institutionalized and codified racism and persecution. They have no power over their daily lives and live in a constant state of fear with good reason. They face economic strangulation; collective punishment for any reason; loss of free movement; enclosures by separation walls, electric fences and border closings; regular curfews, roadblocks, checkpoints, loss of their homes by bulldozings and crops and orchards by wanton destruction and seizure; arrest without cause, and routine subjection to torture while in custody.

They’re targeted for extra-judicial assassination and indiscriminate killing; taxed punitively and denied basic services essential to life and well-being including health care, education, employment and even enough food and water at the whim of Israeli authorities in a deliberate effort to destroy their will to resist and eliminate those who won’t by expulsion or extermination...

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe | Global Research


Ilan Pappé (Hebrew: אילן פפה‎; born 1954 in Haifa,[1] Israel) is an Israeli historian and socialist activist. He is currently a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies. He was formerly a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Haifa (1984–2007) and chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian and Israeli Studies in Haifa (2000–2008).

 

[earth_as_one]

The United States and Israel seem to be losing the hearts and minds of Gazans... can anyone figure out why?

Gaza family wiped out by Israeli bomb

The four youngest members of the El Dallo family were the first to arrive at the Shifa hospital morgue. Sara, 7, Jamal, 6, Yusef, 4, and Ibrahim,2, children of rumoured Hamas member Mohamed El Dallo, were laid two abreast on metal trays, swathed in white.

Everyone inside the home in Nasser St was killed Photo: EPA
Phoebe Greenwood, Gaza City
18 Nov 2012

Only their small, distorted faces were left exposed to the local camera crews, jostling to capture the latest victims of Israel's Operation Pillar of Defence on film.

Nine members of the family and two neighbours were inside the family home when the Israeli missile struck, fired from an F16 jet shortly before 3pm. Every one of them was killed, all women and children. Mr Dallo, who was not at home, survived.

As Hamas police struggled to control furious friends and relatives attempting to force their way into the morgue to see the bodies, Palestinian emergency teams were still digging through the rubble of the home on Nasser Street, in central Gaza City. Ten of the family members had already been found but a 20 year-old woman was still missing underneath the dirt and stone of her home...

Gaza family wiped out by Israeli bomb - Telegraph


The IDF appears to be targeting the homes of people of interest in order. While its possible they are at home, at a minimum they are killing their friends and families. That sort of retribution is normally off limits for the mafia, biker gangs and most other criminal organizations...


IMO, targeting civilians is targeting civilians. This is no different than a rocket aimed in the direction of a city.

 

[Just the Facts]

The United States and Israel seem to be losing the hearts and minds of Gazans... can anyone figure out why?

Very sad about the Gazan family, I hope the bloodshed ends soon. The amount of devastation in the photo, shocking. Secondary explosions, probably.

Anyway, as far as hearts and minds go, the Hamilton Coalition to Stop the War make the point better than I could ever hope to:

In case anyone missed it, that photo is of an Israeli child injured by a rocket from Gaza.

Oh the irony.

Blazing Cat Fur: Must See...Today's Despicable Idiots: Hamilton Coalition To Stop The War

 

[petros]

If a rocket is fired at an Israeli settlement in Palestine from Palestine is still counted as a rocket attack on Israel?

 

[MHz]

[/QUOTE]
Tell me again the photo below is a result of a car-bomb. lol

 

[darkbeaver]

What is Israel "occupying" what the countries surrounding it aren't?

Israel is occupying Palestinian land.

You're the expert on the history of that area and the creation of that area's nation states, so educate me.

Here's the only history I need, Israel is an asset of the international banking scum.

Who was it who started this current situation by first firing rockets in the first place?

It was the Israeli chopper crew who shot boys playing football and then their rescuers.

A: Israel
B: Hamas

I'll give you a little clue - it wasn't Israel.

What a surprise.

 

[petros]

You say it's from a car bomb?