National Post: NDP making huge gains as Canada tilts leftward

L Gilbert

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It has happened many times in Switzerland. I don't recall instances since I do not try to remember them but they could be looked up.
Without you providing any of these instances, all I can do is shrug.
And, politicians can do anything Constitutional in Switzerland without the public's "say-so."
Yes, there are certain things politicians can do without public input but even that idea was decided by the public in the first place.
To hold a referendum not initiated by government there must be at least 100,000 signatories to the request. It is a very expensive and inefficient way to ri=un a country.
They do not need to hold very many referendums. Expensive and inefficient are relative terms. And what we have is vastly more efficient and inexpensive? lmao

"Direct Democracy: Referendum and Initiative

Frequent referendums on new or changed laws, budgets etc,
- some of them mandatory
- others "facultative" (only if 50,000 citizens demand for it)
Ordinary citizens may propose changes to the constitution ("initiative"), if they can find a number of supporters (100,000 out of about 3,500,000 voters). Parliament will discuss it, probably propose an alternative and afterwards all citizens may decide in a referendum whether to accept the initiative, the alternate proposal or stay without change
While the federal system can be found in many other countries like the U.S.A., Germany, Austria etc., and separation of powers (government, parliament, courts) are common to all democracies (or at least should be), referendums are rare in most other countries. In Switzerland's long tradtion of Direct Democracy, frequent referendums do have a stabilizing influence on parliament and government.

referendums will increase parties' willingness to compromise (otherwise a defeated party will call for a referendum)
referendums favour big coalitions (shared power motivates compromise, exclusion from power motivates obstructive referendums)
referendums increase stability (as extreme laws will be blocked by referendum, parties are less inclined to radical changes in lawmaking and voters are less inclined to call for fundamental changes in elections)
The two chambers of parliament meet several times annually to sessions of several weeks and between them to preparing meetings of numerous commissions. Being member of parliament is not a full time job in Switzerland, contrary to most other countries today. This means, that Swiss members of parliament are closer to everyday life of their electorate."

Either way it is probably one of the most stable countries on the planet, if not the most stable.

It is one reason that the Swiss healthcare system is neck and neck with the American as the most expensive in the world (though it is a far better one than the USA.
Like I said, expense is relative. It's still a lot more efficient than the States. The Swiss get what they pay for and it is one of the best in the world. Insurance coverage is mandatory and if you can only pay for part of it, the gov't chips in the rest. If you cannot pay any, the gov't covers you. And if you can pay for your own coverage, that's allowed, too.
To bring in public paid as most Western countries have would require a referendum that would face the sane massive manipulation of public opinion tht happens in America. over that question.
So the States has a problematic system. So, people allow themselves to be manipulated here more than the Swiss do there. That has no bearing upon the Swiss, nor does it mean that direct democracy doesn't work. It took the Swiss a while to figure out how to make it work.
I guess what you are saying is that we are too stupid to make a better system. You may be right, but I doubt it.
 
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Cabbagesandking

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Redmonton_Rebel

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You need to be able to crawl before you walk let alone run, we have a tough enough time getting our indirect democracy to work, can you imagine how chaotic Canada would become if we had this here.
 

L Gilbert

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I did not want to waste the time but here is one. There are more and many that do not make it to the starting gate.

DEMOCRACY IN ACTION? 10 Weird Examples Of The Swiss Referendum System In Action - Business Insider
Yeah, all those were definitely silly. The one about eliminating the military? Regulating book prices so they can be affordable for everyone? The one about banning politicians from engaging in propagandic activities? A national work-free day? I suppose to some who aren't Swiss would see a lot of things the Swiss do as being silly and wasteful.

Stupid! I don't know.
Well, it seems from your POV, even looking at something that works for other countries seems to be a dumb idea and sticking with the status quo seems to be the right thing to do.
The Swiss are as gullible as any and money almost invariably has the right side of referendums. Just as with certain propositions in the USA.
I'd bet a lot more Swiss (proportionately) are a lot more happy with their country than we are with ours.
Not sure why you even brought up the States in this discussion because it has nothing to do with Canada or Switzerland, but whatever.

That it works, to a point, in Switzerland, is more of a geographical thing in my opinion.
So? In my opinion, I'd rather have more of a say in what affects me than having some politician say what she/he thinks affects me.

You need to be able to crawl before you walk let alone run, we have a tough enough time getting our indirect democracy to work, can you imagine how chaotic Canada would become if we had this here.
Examples?
 

B00Mer

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Should Alberta and B.C. separate from Canada?

I think Alberta, B.C., and Yukon should separate to form a new country independent of Canada. The old Canada can worry about oil, money, taxes, and all the other crap.

We "West Canadians" can focus on what matters to us. We can keep our money right here at home. And we won't have to put up with those FRENCH people imposing their language all the way down here.

We can keep close ties with East Canada... with freedom of movement and trade agreements. But we won't be giving East Canada free money to waste on whining poor provinces like Nova Scotia and Quebec.

With our oil wealth, we can get rid of the GST and reduce corporate/personal income taxes. We also have less border to protect, so we can spend the same on our military and still be able to modernize them.

People coming from East Canada to work in West Canada will pay taxes to West Canada, and won't be sending their tax money back to their own provinces.

What do you think? Should we become independent and be more prosperous?

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What does an NDP win mean for Canada... I think the above speeks volumes.. The new Western Attitude.

SOURCE OF ABOVE POST: Should Alberta and B.C. separate from Canada? - Yahoo! Answers

Why Alberta Should Separate From Canada

Canadian Nationalism is dead.

Oh yeah.. and Ron in Regina: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/80017-western-block-party.html

Duceppe to Newfoundland: Why not separate? | CTV News
 

Cabbagesandking

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That might not be easy. THe only part of Canada that can make a legal case for separation is Newfoundland. We might have to send a few Boy Scout troops to put you back in line.
 

Cabbagesandking

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And that case would be?
That it entered Confederation voluntarily. That it was an independent colony of Britain and chose to become part of Canada. It had territorial integrity and a distinct nationality.

No other province has any of that.

Those are the prerequisites of self determination as agreed in the Helsinki agreements. The world adheres to that.
 

Goober

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That it entered Confederation voluntarily. That it was an independent colony of Britain and chose to become part of Canada. It had territorial integrity and a distinct nationality.

No other province has any of that.

Those are the prerequisites of self determination as agreed in the Helsinki agreements. The world adheres to that.

What Provinces were forced to join? Please enlighten us.
 

taxslave

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That it entered Confederation voluntarily. That it was an independent colony of Britain and chose to become part of Canada. It had territorial integrity and a distinct nationality.

No other province has any of that.

Those are the prerequisites of self determination as agreed in the Helsinki agreements. The world adheres to that.

Hate to disillusion you but BC was a colony before joining Canada. AND we have a nifty ocean to ship oil across to countries that are willing to PAY for it.
 

B00Mer

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Boomer, your post is farking ridiculous.

Well it's not my opinion that the west separate.. however, if you follow the links below and read what I said.. I found this online, this seems to be the Western mentality..

If you can't get what you want, separate from Canada.. Canadian Nationalism seems to be conveniently tossed aside.

Please note the very bottom link returns back to CC and the thread was started by Ron in Regina.. ;-)

I hope my post is farking ridiculous, because if Canada splits up, I'm moving to Australia.
 

lone wolf

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That it entered Confederation voluntarily. That it was an independent colony of Britain and chose to become part of Canada. It had territorial integrity and a distinct nationality.

No other province has any of that.

Those are the prerequisites of self determination as agreed in the Helsinki agreements. The world adheres to that.
Entered voluntarily? I'll bet you could still find some oldtimers that would argue that point. My great grandfather would still claim Joey Smallwood was the devil's spawn and Britain cut a deal with Canada - 22 North Stars for the Rock.
 

Cabbagesandking

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Entered voluntarily? I'll bet you could still find some oldtimers that would argue that point. My great grandfather would still claim Joey Smallwood was the devil's spawn and Britain cut a deal with Canada - 22 North Stars for the Rock.
Newfoundland held a referendum with three choices. The winner was to join Canada. Many still think that the wrong choice but that does not matter now.