Canadian Democracy - Takes another hit under Harper

[JLM]

Last time I checked democracy was alive and well in Canada. You are still allowed to vote, voice your opinion and live where you want. Just because you do not agree with the current party in power does not mean democracy is in trouble. The cons have a majority government so they can do pretty much as they please for the next three years. If enough people don't like what they see there will be a change of government. So far there is little to excite most people in the other parties, both of which are about the best vote getters the cons have at the moment. This may change after the Libs have their election or it might not. Time will tell.
It is entirely possible that Harper will be the catalyst that gets whiners off their fat lazy asses and go and vote. You gotta admit that the voting numbers are pathetic.

Yep, for all the whiners, if they were to check on the number of people trying to get into the country, they might change their minds. Barring a few exceptions, if you obey the laws, mind your own business and work hard in this country you can do quite well. It's just when people get too greedy (Conrad Black) they meet with grief.

 

[taxslave]

As Harper said to Peter Mansbridge in an interview nor long ago. "When I have finished, Canada will be unrecognisable."

You sound like that is a bad thing.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

You sound like that is a bad thing.

Whether it is a good or bad thing could be debated if it were not for Teddy and the acolytes.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Last time I checked democracy was alive and well in Canada. You are still allowed to vote, voice your opinion and live where you want. Just because you do not agree with the current party in power does not mean democracy is in trouble. The cons have a majority government so they can do pretty much as they please for the next three years. If enough people don't like what they see there will be a change of government. So far there is little to excite most people in the other parties, both of which are about the best vote getters the cons have at the moment. This may change after the Libs have their election or it might not. Time will tell.
It is entirely possible that Harper will be the catalyst that gets whiners off their fat lazy asses and go and vote. You gotta admit that the voting numbers are pathetic.

Democracy is about far more than just showing up to vote.

To have an effective democracy you need a well informed electorate, it's not a coincidence that one of the first things the Harper government did after taking power was restrict access to information in ever increasing degrees. We are far less well informed now than we were under the Liberals and that says a lot.

There's also been chronic complaints about the Conservatives abuse of the system to stiffle debate on the Hill and find unfair advantage during election. Right now Elections Canada is investigating a scheme that saw a private and protected list created by the Conservative party to identify non-supporters, being used to misdirect many of those same voters to non-existant polling stations on election day. A Conservative campaign worker Andrew Prescott has had his computer linked to the election fraud:

Robocalls Linked To Guelph Tory Campaign Worker's Computer

Some people misdirected claim that the same conservative workers who called them to determine their party affiliation later called to misdirect them to polling stations that didn't exist. How is this still an open and fair democracy?

 

[CDNBear]

Whether it is a good or bad thing could be debated if it were not for Teddy and the acolytes.

You aren't here for debate. You have made that perfectly clear.

A key component of debate, is the ability to concede to fact/evidence you can't refute. You've proven time and time again, you are unable to do so.

Thus, you are here to preach from your ideological pulpit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Who is this Teddy you speak of?

Who is your acolyte? I'd hazard a guess, it's another ideologue like yourself.

Democracy is about far more than just showing up to vote.

To have an effective democracy you need a well informed electorate, it's not a coincidence that one of the first things the Harper government did after taking power was restrict access to information in ever increasing degrees. We are far less well informed now than we were under the Liberals and that says a lot.

Are you forgetting when Layton and company threatened to sue the Sun, because they did the unthinkable, ie; reporting news.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Are you forgetting when Layton and company threatened to sue the Sun, because they did the unthinkable, ie; reporting news.

Elaborate please.

And suing for libel, if that what it was, is a little different from using the power of the state to stiffle debate and access to crucial information. From what I've seen the Conservatives are far more concerned with driving us in the direction they want us to go than leading us in the direction that's best for us. It's dishonest and disrespectful.

 

[Goober]

Elaborate please.

And suing for libel, if that what it was, is a little different from using the power of the state to stiffle debate and access to crucial information. From what I've seen the Conservatives are far more concerned with driving us in the direction they want us to go than leading us in the direction that's best for us. It's dishonest and disrespectful.

Hit the wrong biutton

Do you recall Chretien using the RCMP as his Banana republics personal Police force to harass the CEO of the Canadian Business Development Bank of Canada


Tory ministers crash budget hearing, leaving little time for questions - The Globe and Mail

 

[CDNBear]

Elaborate please.

The Toronto Sun ran an article that was fact checked to the source. Layton was caught in a Toronto rub-n-tug, by Toronto Police.

Layton and the NDP threatened to sue the Sun.

Oddly enough, nothing ever came of it. It went cold even before he fell ill again.

And suing for libel, if that what it was, is a little different from using the power of the state to stiffle debate and access to crucial information.

Vexatious litigation, by any party, to subvert Freedom of the Press, is abhorrent at best.

And you should note what Goober posted above.

From what I've seen the Conservatives are far more concerned with driving us in the direction they want us to go than leading us in the direction that's best for us. It's dishonest and disrespectful.

I'm sure you see it that way. I admit, I completely disagree with much of the CPC platform, and much of the actions since they acquired a majority. But I'm not blind enough to say they are the only party to have acted this way. Nor am I naive or stupid enough to believe that any party is any better.

 

[AyameTaylor]

You sound like that is a bad thing.

That is a matter that could be up for discussion, The question would then be. HOW could canada be improved (during the time he made the statement) and HOW has he ****ed it up? (Presently) Further more; Is there anything that he has done that HAS improved Canada.

So it's one of those statements that has to be taken with a grain of salt, after all you can't be fearful or excited because a politician says that "THE COUNTRY WILL BE DIFFERENT WHEN WE'RE THROUGH!" <- because that is usually their job, Change the policies that are holding the country back and bettering the lives of the citizens they represent (at least in theory)

Whether it is a good or bad thing could be debated if it were not for Teddy and the acolytes.

Seriously, I have read this entire thread, and so far all i have seen is your fundamental obsession with calling people out for facts and when you get them Preach about how those facts are wrong or completely ignore them.

Debate: de·bate [dih-beyt]noun, verb, de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing.
Noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3.deliberation; consideration.
4.Archaic . strife; contention.

Verb (used without object)
5.to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating.
6.to participate in a formal debate.
7.to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not.
8.Obsolete . to fight; quarrel.

Thus far all you have done is option 8. Why don't we try for some ACTUAL debating or Discussing going on before you start treading in to the territory of personal attacks because it's getting ridiculous, Unless of course you don't have anything further to bring to this topic then your more then welcome to bow out.

You aren't here for debate. You have made that perfectly clear.

A key component of debate, is the ability to concede to fact/evidence you can't refute. You've proven time and time again, you are unable to do so.

Thus, you are here to preach from your ideological pulpit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Who is your acolyte? I'd hazard a guess, it's another ideologue like yourself.

I couldn't have said that better myself bravo

The Toronto Sun ran an article that was fact checked to the source. Layton was caught in a Toronto rub-n-tug, by Toronto Police.

Layton and the NDP threatened to sue the Sun.

Oddly enough, nothing ever came of it. It went cold even before he fell ill again.

Vexatious litigation, by any party, to subvert Freedom of the Press, is abhorrent at best.

And you should note what Goober posted above.

I'm sure you see it that way. I admit, I completely disagree with much of the CPC platform, and much of the actions since they acquired a majority. But I'm not blind enough to say they are the only party to have acted this way. Nor am I naive or stupid enough to believe that any party is any better.

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about that Huh, there again i am not all too surprised considering the fact that this is politics we're talking about, 90% of it is blowing smoke out their asses and hoping that they get away with it. Show boating and the like.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

I am not interested in getting into a fight with you, Ayame. I do suggest that you read a little more comprehensively and make your comments when you have read threads not, as you have said, when you have seen a little of them.

 

[B00Mer]

Cabbagepatch, even the American had a better exit strategy out of IRAQ than you from a debate.. lol

 

[Cabbagesandking]

Cabbagepatch, even the American had a better exit strategy out of IRAQ than you from a debate.. lol

I have no exit strategy from any debate other than winning it. Or do you not know what debate is> Discussion is a different matter. However, this is not debate and it is not discussion. It has degenerated into a vehicle for the cowardly, bullying styyle of Teddy and I am not at all interested in what he has to say.

If it gets back to discussion, then we can proceed. But, I have little af that. Once he starts, some of his minions join in and the discussion is over.

 

[Cliffy]

How can we debate that which does not exist - Canadian democracy? You start off with a false assumption and discuss it ad nausium and where does it get you?

 

[JLM]

How can we debate that which does not exist - Canadian democracy? You start off with a false assumption and discuss it ad nausium and where does it get you?

"Democracy" or not, Canadians have it as good as it's going to get. We are born into an opportunity for education and can proceed from there at any legal enterprise we wish. People who work hard can get grants and scholarships. What do you have in mind that could be better than that? I'll grant you the political situation is far from perfect, but we helped make it what it is and still have the option of changing it.

 

[mentalfloss]

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about that Huh, there again i am not all too surprised considering the fact that this is politics we're talking about, 90% of it is blowing smoke out their asses and hoping that they get away with it. Show boating and the like.

Is he still going on about the rub n tug thing?

He's got a pretty awkward obsession about that. Maybe he needs a time out at the sexhibition.

 

[lone wolf]

I have no exit strategy from any debate other than winning it. Or do you not know what debate is> Discussion is a different matter. However, this is not debate and it is not discussion. It has degenerated into a vehicle for the cowardly, bullying styyle of Teddy and I am not at all interested in what he has to say.

If it gets back to discussion, then we can proceed. But, I have little af that. Once he starts, some of his minions join in and the discussion is over.

How great thou art isn't the topic of discussion. The type first think later approach isn't working well for you.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Hit the wrong biutton

Do you recall Chretien using the RCMP as his Banana republics personal Police force to harass the CEO of the Canadian Business Development Bank of Canada


Tory ministers crash budget hearing, leaving little time for questions - The Globe and Mail

What does Chretien have to do with it?

If that's the standard of behaviour in our political leaders then we're screwed, how about electing people who try and live up to the best standards and not down to the worst. I see little difference between what the Conservatives are doing and what the Liberals did.

 

[Goober]

What does Chretien have to do with it?

If that's the standard of behaviour in our political leaders then we're screwed, how about electing people who try and live up to the best standards and not down to the worst. I see little difference between what the Conservatives are doing and what the Liberals did.

Chretien has everything to do with it- Liberals will slam Harper but defend Chretien - This was posted for Liberals that think their party and Leaders are so different. The corruption and scandals under Chretien so far outweigh Harpers time in office.

Now the bulk bill are an atrocious abuse of Parliament- Chretien did it- Martin the same - All harper did was expand upon it - but in a way that I find reprehensible.

 

[PoliticalNick]

How can we debate that which does not exist - Canadian democracy? You start off with a false assumption and discuss it ad nausium and where does it get you?

There is a democracy in Canada Cliffy but it is not a true democracy. We have a "representative democracy" which means that we all get to vote on who the corporations and rich & powerful want to represent them in parliament.

A true democracy would be where we all get a vote on all legislation.

 

[CDNBear]

I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about that Huh, there again i am not all too surprised considering the fact that this is politics we're talking about, 90% of it is blowing smoke out their asses and hoping that they get away with it. Show boating and the like.

It was all the rage around here. The Dipper shills got their collective panties twisted, and condemned the Sun, backed Layton and company, when they threatened the Freedom of the Press, with vexatious litigation.

You should have see how hard it was to get them to, even with great insincerity, support Racknine's defamation law suit against Pat Martin. That's how they roll, hypocritically.

I am not interested in getting into a fight with you, Ayame. I do suggest that you read a little more comprehensively and make your comments when you have read threads not, as you have said, when you have seen a little of them.

Seems only you and your sycophant see it your way.

Usually when a multitude of people point out your failings, they're your failings.

But you can keep trying to project them, it's funny to watch.

I have no exit strategy from any debate other than winning it.

Ahhh, so many things you fail at.

Or do you not know what debate is> Discussion is a different matter. However, this is not debate and it is not discussion.

We already know that. I pointed it out, you're here to preach.

It has degenerated into a vehicle for the cowardly, bullying styyle of Teddy and I am not at all interested in what he has to say.

I don't know who this Teddy guy is, but if he's just proving you wrong, like I have, he isn't being a coward or a bully. That's just how you see it, because your argument is weak and your ego silly.

If it gets back to discussion, then we can proceed. But, I have little af that. Once he starts, some of his minions join in and the discussion is over.

Teddy has minions? How come I don't have minions?

I'll have to talk to Andem about that.

Ayame, remember what I was saying about the Dipper shills, and how they got their panties twisted, and how they roll...

Is he still going on about the rub n tug thing?

He's got a pretty awkward obsession about that. Maybe he needs a time out at the sexhibition.

That's as good an example of the Dipper shills getting their panties in a twist as you can get Ayame.

A true democracy would be where we all get a vote on all legislation.

And quite expensive.