U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians
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I too get a little upset when one looks at the recent news wearing rose tinted glasses and conveniently forgets about Romeo Dalliare and his intransigence of playing spectator while Belgian peacekeepers were slaughtered "But I asked for more reinforcements and they weren't authorized so what could I do?" Sheesh! Not a shining moment for Canadian peacekeepers. His flirtation with alcoholism and suicide were simply the effects of a guilty conscience. JMHO!
Members of the much vaunted Van Doo's raping female inmates of an insane asylum in the ethnic cleansing debacle.
The practice of armed conflict brings out the very best in some and the very worst in others; there is no guarantee you're going to come out unscathed, with reputation intact.
For purposes of this forum let's just agree not to get into claiming the moral high ground because you will occupy it for a fleeting moment at best! If assigning guilt be the target of spectators, don't despair there will be plenty for all!
I disagree. When our military screws up, we are judged on how we react. We should not sweep atrocities under the rug and pretend they didn't happen. That would make us accomplices. We should try to uncover the truth, uphold the law and let the chips fall where they may.
Some Canadian soldiers did commit an atrocity in Somalia.
Canadian soldier Clayton Matchee poses during the deadly beating of Shidane Arone. Later Matchee attempted suicide, and ended up with severe brain damage. The affair led criminal charges against several to the disbanding of Canada's elite Canadian Airborne Regiment.
I disagree with the way the inquiry was handled in that all of Canada's military was blamed to some degree. We punished the guilty to the full extent of the law. But we should have exonerated the innocent or those soldiers who did their duty honorably. Instead it became a witch hunt which demoralized our entire military. I have a problem with that, since the inquiry's objective should have been limited to finding the truth and punishing only those who dishonored themselves and Canada by committing war crimes.
Some Canadian soldiers did commit an atrocity in Somalia.
Canadian soldier Clayton Matchee poses during the deadly beating of Shidane Arone. Later Matchee attempted suicide, and ended up with severe brain damage. The affair led criminal charges against several to the disbanding of Canada's elite Canadian Airborne Regiment.
I disagree with the way the inquiry was handled in that all of Canada's military was blamed to some degree. We punished the guilty to the full extent of the law. But we should have exonerated the innocent or those soldiers who did their duty honorably. Instead it became a witch hunt which demoralized our entire military. I have a problem with that, since the inquiry's objective should have been limited to finding the truth and punishing only those who dishonored themselves and Canada by committing war crimes.
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Hey he kept his boys safe! Can you imagine if the Yanks sent the Canucks to be slaughtered and completely without support?
That is all I am looking for. But it won't happen.
Tell you what ES, you tell me what is the appropriate consequences for gunning down 24 unarmed civilians including seven children, a toddler, three women, a 76-year-old man in a wheelchair and then pissing on their corpses? According to your criminal justice system, such crimes are not serious enough to warrant any jail time. Do you agree with your criminal justice system that killing unarmed civilians including women and children because they happen to live near a location where American soldiers were attacked isn't a serious crime. The American soldiers were attacked, but the civilians had nothing to do with it. That's the known facts in this case. The American soldiers were pissed at the villagers. They believed that at least some of them must have known about the road side bomb and said nothing. That's why they went to the nearest homes and killed everyone they encountered. How do you reconcile shooting a mother holding a baby and no one getting jail time? If that happened in your neighborhood, would most of the killers walking free and one person getting a suspended sentence satisfy you that justice was served, or would you believe justice was denied?
Also, if you have no problems with American soldiers gunning down innocent women and children, then I guess you wouldn't mind if these people move into your neighborhood. I recommend you take care not to make them angry.
You have a point regarding Libya. Our air force did exceed the UNSC mandate and we probably did bomb civilians. If the Libyans want to press the issue with us, they certainly have the right. I suspect the orders to exceed the UNSC mandate came right from the highest levels within the Canadian government and yes I would support holding those responsible for any war crimes or lines crossed. If necessary the PM himself.
You don't know what you are talking about. Dallaire was not responsible for the 10 Belgium peacekeeper's deaths. Dallaire was put in an impossible situation and he tried to resolve the situation as best he could. I would not describe his actions as being a spectator. He did what he could, which wasn't enough and hundreds of thousands of people died as a result including those Belgium peacekeepers. No doubt that mission led to many personal problems and despair. But Dallaire never dishonored Canada or the uniform. He never gunned down innocent civilians or mothers with babies in their arms. In fact, many people are alive today as a direct result of Dallaire's actions.
When a soldier guns down innocent civilians, they should be held accountable for their actions. If we cover up crimes, that would make us accessories after the fact. Victims have a right to justice. How we react to war crimes and our ability to hold those responsible accountable for their actions determines our reputation. Instead you want to pretend the crimes didn't happen. Nothing to see here folks, move along, move along...
I can claim the moral high ground because I don't ignore war crimes or defend the actions of war criminals.
Were the guilty punished - BulShxt - The only person convicted was a Private - he did digger time - I met him a few years ago.
Chretien canceled the Inquiry for one reason - They were getting very close to Senior Officers in the Canadian Military -
Best review your history bucky.
Like in this thread where the OP was not addressed by the usual suspects....http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/104876-135-rockets-fired-gaza-strip.html
Dallaire did no such thing.
Can you reference a link supporting your belief that a Canadian General sent Belgium soldiers to be slaughtered without support? Here's what Wikipedia says:
In January 2004, Dallaire appeared at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda to testify against Colonel Théoneste Bagosora. (The testimony was critical to the outcome of the trial and in December 2008 Bagosora was convicted of genocide and for the command responsibility of the murders of the 10 Belgian Peacekeepers. The trial chamber held that: "it is clear that the killing of the peacekeepers formed part of the widespread and systematic attack",[8] while at the same time holding that: "the evidence suggests that these killings were not necessarily part of a highly coordinated plan."[9])
Roméo Dallaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sounds to me like Bagosora gave the order to kill the Belgium soldiers, not Dallaire.
Really? Are you purposely reading what ES said wrong, or is there a cognitive issue that we aren't aware of.
Forgetit, ES says it better, lol.
So can you answer the question about how much blood is on your hands - Appears the Bucky Twins have problems with simply worded but clear and concise question.
If you have trouble with the way it is phrased, please ask and I will clarify it for you.
Ya know we can all use some help at times. I am always willing to help. Just the way I am.
LOADED.
Ya think? Setting up a No Fly Zone then bombing their brains in. Ah yeah... I think so too.
Probably? LOL.
Don't hold you breath.
Oh yes I dooooo!
Dallaire was the Commander of UN Forces in Rwanda. He personally sent in the Belgian soldiers unsupported.
Do you know the reason why he sent Belgians instead of his own?
CBC News Indepth: Romeo Dallaire
"On the first night of the war, Rwandan government forces were murdering Tutsi and Hutu moderate politicians. Dallaire dispatched one unit of 10 Belgian peacekeepers to secure the home of Rwanda's prime minister. The Belgians were by far the most experienced of his soldiers. But they were ambushed, taken prisoner and later tortured, mutilated and murdered."
Many are alive due to his actions? Are you serious? 800,000 were killed!
BLOODY HANDS FOR EVERYONE!
As you well know, I've condemned militant rocket attacks against Israeli civilians as war crimes on this forum repeatedly. Your claim that unless I specifically and repeatedly post condemnations of Palestinians war crimes on every thread involving Israel, I must support Palestinian war crimes? What a load.
How about you proving that you've condemned a single Israel war crime once on any thread once. Can you post a reference to one time you've condemned an Israeli war crime.
How about IDF soldiers abducting an 11 year girl at gun point and forcing her to enter buildings where they suspect armed militants are hiding to draw enemy gun fire and set off booby traps. I think that's a cowardly war crime. How about you?
Dude, that was harsh.
I know what you're trying to convey, but you're stepping on someone that I hold in high esteem. When you negate what he tried to do, with what he had, and what he was up against.
Why is it a load?
You accused me of supporting the use on an 11yo girl, because I haven't made my opinion known.
Ya that one...
Obviously your hypocrisy, isn't only focused on Israel v. Palestine.
Well lets see...
Dellaire send Belgium soldiers on a mission...
Rwandan soldiers return the mutilated bodies of Belgian soldiers.
"Lt. Lotin called for support and extraction and was advised by radio by his commander that he should turn over his unit’s arms and place themselves under the Hutu custody.
The ten Belgians were disarmed and taken to the Rwandan barracks in Kigali where they were observed from a distance by Major General Dallaire who was largely powerless to rescue them."
I got that from the link you pulled off your posts real quick. lol. I guess you have to read them through before you post them eh? They may not say what you want them to say.
Where was the support?
Honestly Bear... he's just getting a taste of his own medicine. Sorry if there was collateral damage here.
You do it adnauseum concerning Israel, but have to be goaded into a half-a ss admission when it comes to pallestine....
"But they were ambushed, taken prisoner and later tortured, mutilated and murdered."
How is Dallaire responsible for an enemy ambush? Did Dallaire conspire with the enemy to kill those Belgium peacekeepers or did Dallaire underestimate the threat and risk? No doubt your hindsight is much better than Dallaire's foresight. Looking back, I guess Dallaire should have sent more than 10 Belgiums to the PM's house. Maybe he should have sent a battalion. Unfortunately he didn't have a battalion. All he had for that mission was 10 Belgium peacekeepers. Lots of people were dying that night and Dallaire lacked the forces to deal with every threat. If I recall, Dallaire asked for re-enforcements repeatedly for months during the run up to the Rwandan genocide and now you blame him for not having enough soldiers???? Also if he didn't sent the Belgium peacekeepers the PM would have been killed for certain. If he moved reinforcements to assist the Belgium contingent, then another slaughter would have happened somewhere else.
If Dallaire was a selfish prick, he would have pulled out of Rwanda along with the UN and let the slaughter happen. A good chance far more than 800,000 people would have perished. Instead he stayed and did the best that he could with the limited resources at his disposal.
There were early signs that something was amiss when, on January 22, 1994, a French DC-8 aircraft landed in Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, loaded with ammunition and weapons for the Rwandan Armed Forces (FAR). (FAR was the Hutu army under Habyarimana's control.) Through an informant, Dallaire learned that these weapons were to be used for an attack on Tutsis after the Belgians would have been forced to withdraw by violence orchestrated by the Interahamwe.[citation needed] Despite his telegram to the UN, Dallaire was not permitted to seize the weapons, as this was deemed to be an action beyond his UN mandate. The Chief of Staff of the Rwandan Army told Dallaire that since the munitions were ordered before Arusha, the UN was not allowed to detain the shipment, and displayed paperwork showing that the weapons had been sent by Belgium, Israel, France, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Egypt. In addition to the arms deliveries, troops from the Rwandan government began checking identity cards which identified individuals as Hutus or Tutsis. These cards would later allow Hutu militias to identify their victims with accuracy.[citation needed]
Following the withdrawal of Belgian forces, whom Dallaire considered his best-trained[5] and best-equipped, Dallaire consolidated his contingent of Pakistani, Canadian, Ghanaian, Tunisian, and Bangladeshi soldiers in urban areas and focused on providing areas of "safe control" in and around Kigali. Most of Dallaire's efforts were to defend specific areas where he knew Tutsis to be hiding. Dallaire's staff — including the U.N.'s unarmed observers — often relied on its U.N. credentials to save Tutsis, heading off Interahamwe attacks even while being outnumbered and outgunned. Dallaire's actions are credited with directly saving the lives of 32,000 persons of different races.[6]
Roméo Dallaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How many lives have you Dallaire critics saved?
I have no problems condemning Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks against Israeli civilians as war crimes. I've done so repeatedly, and without goading. I have no problem with the Canadian government's stand regarding Palestinian militant groups, so why would write about it?
I noticed that EagleSmack, DaSleeper and CNDBear can't write a critical thing about Israel even when it involves IDF soldiers using an 11 year old girl as a human shield. EagleSmack can't even say that slaughtering 24 unarmed civilians including seven children, a toddler, three women, a 76-year-old man in a wheelchair and then pissing on their corpses crosses any lines for him.
And you guys have the balls to criticize General Romeo Dallaire for only saving 32,000 lives, even though he asked for and never got re-inforcements or permission to stop weapons shipments from Belgium, Israel, France, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands and Egypt.
You guys really have double standards....
How is Dallaire responsible for an enemy ambush? Did Dallaire conspire with the enemy to kill those Belgium peacekeepers or did Dallaire underestimate the threat and risk? No doubt your hindsight is much better than Dallaire's foresight. Looking back, I guess Dallaire should have sent more than 10 Belgiums to the PM's house. Maybe he should have sent a battalion. Unfortunately he didn't have a battalion. All he had for that mission was 10 Belgium peacekeepers. Lots of people were dying that night and Dallaire lacked the forces to deal with every threat. If I recall, Dallaire asked for re-enforcements repeatedly for months during the run up to the Rwandan genocide and now you blame him for not having enough soldiers???? Also if he didn't sent the Belgium peacekeepers the PM would have been killed for certain. If he moved reinforcements to assist the Belgium contingent, then another slaughter would have happened somewhere else.
If Dallaire was a selfish prick, he would have pulled out of Rwanda along with the UN and let the slaughter happen. A good chance far more than 800,000 people would have perished. Instead he stayed and did the best that he could with the limited resources at his disposal.
There were early signs that something was amiss when, on January 22, 1994, a French DC-8 aircraft landed in Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, loaded with ammunition and weapons for the Rwandan Armed Forces (FAR). (FAR was the Hutu army under Habyarimana's control.) Through an informant, Dallaire learned that these weapons were to be used for an attack on Tutsis after the Belgians would have been forced to withdraw by violence orchestrated by the Interahamwe.[citation needed] Despite his telegram to the UN, Dallaire was not permitted to seize the weapons, as this was deemed to be an action beyond his UN mandate. The Chief of Staff of the Rwandan Army told Dallaire that since the munitions were ordered before Arusha, the UN was not allowed to detain the shipment, and displayed paperwork showing that the weapons had been sent by Belgium, Israel, France, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Egypt. In addition to the arms deliveries, troops from the Rwandan government began checking identity cards which identified individuals as Hutus or Tutsis. These cards would later allow Hutu militias to identify their victims with accuracy.[citation needed]
Following the withdrawal of Belgian forces, whom Dallaire considered his best-trained[5] and best-equipped, Dallaire consolidated his contingent of Pakistani, Canadian, Ghanaian, Tunisian, and Bangladeshi soldiers in urban areas and focused on providing areas of "safe control" in and around Kigali. Most of Dallaire's efforts were to defend specific areas where he knew Tutsis to be hiding. Dallaire's staff — including the U.N.'s unarmed observers — often relied on its U.N. credentials to save Tutsis, heading off Interahamwe attacks even while being outnumbered and outgunned. Dallaire's actions are credited with directly saving the lives of 32,000 persons of different races.[6]
Roméo Dallaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How many lives have you Dallaire critics saved?
I have no problems condemning Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks against Israeli civilians as war crimes. I've done so repeatedly, and without goading. I have no problem with the Canadian government's stand regarding Palestinian militant groups, so why would write about it?
I noticed that EagleSmack, DaSleeper and CNDBear can't write a critical thing about Israel even when it involves IDF soldiers using an 11 year old girl as a human shield. EagleSmack can't even say that slaughtering 24 unarmed civilians including seven children, a toddler, three women, a 76-year-old man in a wheelchair and then pissing on their corpses crosses any lines for him.
And you guys have the balls to criticize General Romeo Dallaire for only saving 32,000 lives, even though he asked for and never got re-inforcements or permission to stop weapons shipments from Belgium, Israel, France, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands and Egypt.
You guys really have double standards....