Was WWII about what we were told it was about?

[Colpy]

The Brits, Canadians and the US among others refused to let the ship of fools land and take refuge of the Jews on board. The ship returned to Germany and the inevitable end ensued. This was done in full knowledge of the outcome because those countries did not want the Jews and would have had to, by association, agree with Hitler's intent. It is highly hypocritical of the west to condemn Hitler for what he did because we condoned it and/or refused to something about it. We did not fight the war to stop the slaughter of the Jews even though they knew it was going on. The war was fought for economic and political reasons, not humanitarian ones. Canada is just as guilty, as well as the Yanks and Brits, as Hitler was for what happened to the Jews, gays, Gypsies, etc. Fighting about the numbers of dead is just plain ridiculous. It is a vain attempt to deflect blame.

You were doing al right up to the mid-point....

We have much to be ashamed of in our refusal to deal with the persecution of the Jews in Germany.

But after that you blew it. We fought the war to prevent the political domination of hundreds of millions by a political philosophy that was the antithesis of western civilization....that replaced freedom with slavery, tolerance with hatred, justice with murder.

And that is the truth of it. To equate the free nations of earth with the Nazis is relativism taken past the limits of sanity.

Oh....and I'm calling you on a logic point: does our refusal to invade Syria make us responsible for the thousands murdered by the Assad regime?????

If so, to arms!!!

Rationalize and relativize THAT! lol

 

[WLDB]

The Brits, Canadians and the US among others refused to let the ship of fools land and take refuge of the Jews on board. The ship returned to Germany and the inevitable end ensued. This was done in full knowledge of the outcome because those countries did not want the Jews and would have had to, by association, agree with Hitler's intent. It is highly hypocritical of the west to condemn Hitler for what he did because we condoned it and/or refused to something about it. We did not fight the war to stop the slaughter of the Jews even though they knew it was going on. The war was fought for economic and political reasons, not humanitarian ones. Canada is just as guilty, as well as the Yanks and Brits, as Hitler was for what happened to the Jews, gays, Gypsies, etc. Fighting about the numbers of dead is just plain ridiculous. It is a vain attempt to deflect blame.

How do you know this given you weren't there? Have you actually decided to form an opinion about a historical event?

Progress!

 

[Cliffy]

How do you know this given you weren't there? Have you actually decided to form an opinion about a historical event?

Progress!

My opinion is about people who argue about what happened from a self righteous point of view when in fact the have no reason to be self righteous, not history.

 

[darkbeaver]

We fought the war to prevent the political domination of hundreds of millions by a political philosophy that was the antithesis of western civilization....that replaced freedom with slavery, tolerance with hatred, justice with murder.

And that is the truth of it. To equate the free nations of earth with the Nazis is relativism taken past the limits of sanity.

Oh....and I'm calling you on a logic point: does our refusal to invade Syria make us responsible for the thousands murdered by the Assad regime?????

It is a matter of no small record that no war has ever been fought for the idealistic nonsense like political philosophy or western civilization. It is also notable that you seem to maintain that slavery hatred and murder were solved by WW2. Nothing remotely like that happened in history, any history. The close of WW2 heralded this planets most massive economic and cultural rape instituted and managed with starvation and death, on a scale never before seen ,all of it warfare . War is fought for conquest and gold and there is no other reason. You don't know anything about the limits of sanity. Israeli fomenting of war with its neighbour Syria just like Libya, Tunisia, Eygypt and all the rest. Some want WW3 very badly, it's the only way to hide the crimes.

 

[Corduroy]

Watch a fictitious movie about Mohicans, Brits, French and Wendat, to learn about Mohawks and Algonquins?

Well, he says he thinks all history is BS. How does he even know any of those events occurred? Naturally any source is as good as the next. Want to learn about the collapse of the Roman empire? Read the back of a cereal box.

The last Roman emperor was Monosodium Glutamate.

Just trying to start a debate!

 

[WLDB]

The last Roman emperor was Monosodium Glutamate.

Lies! Everyone knows the last Roman Emperor was Glucose Fructose!

 

[Cliffy]

Well, he says he thinks all history is BS. How does he even know any of those events occurred? Naturally any source is as good as the next. Want to learn about the collapse of the Roman empire? Read the back of a cereal box.

The last Roman emperor was Monosodium Glutamate.

Just trying to start a debate!

I realized that you were trying to start a debate. That is why I deflected to a fictitious movie. I see no point in debating opinions.

Yes we have some idea about some things that happened in the past but most of what has come down is tainted by bias. We know the Mohawk and Algonquin lived in the past because they still live in the present as do the Brits and French. None of us, however, has a clear picture or understanding of what really happened back then because none of us was there to witness it. As has been pointed out many times, if there are 10 people who witness an event, not one story told by those 10 people will agree as to the details relating to their memory of what happened. Memory is selective. So we may have a crude idea of some of the events and people involved in historical events but we do not have a clear idea of any of the details.

 

[WLDB]

I realized that you were trying to start a debate. That is why I deflected to a fictitious movie. I see no point in debating opinions.

Yes we have some idea about some things that happened in the past but most of what has come down is tainted by bias. We know the Mohawk and Algonquin lived in the past because they still live in the present as do the Brits and French. None of us, however, has a clear picture or understanding of what really happened back then because none of us was there to witness it. As has been pointed out many times, if there are 10 people who witness an event, not one story told by those 10 people will agree as to the details relating to their memory of what happened. Memory is selective. So we may have a crude idea of some of the events and people involved in historical events but we do not have a clear idea of any of the details.

History isn't an exact science. Any historian would tell you that. Are you trying to suggest we shouldnt even attempt to find out what happened because we'll never know anything 100%?

 

[JLM]

History isn't an exact science. Any historian would tell you that. Are you trying to suggest we shouldnt even attempt to find out what happened because we'll never know anything 100%?

History is definitely exact, the recording of it may be in error.

 

[Goober]

Noone knows the exact number of deaths in WW2, just as the exact numbers of casualties in subsequent wars are unknown.

The Nazi`s had excellent records in particular for the Death Camps.

 

[bluebyrd35]

"Fighting for Freedom is the belief, most personnel entering services hope is the truth. Canadians (during war II, supposedly the war to end all wars, for the second time) believed this to be so...both volunteers and the conscripted.

With the revolution in access to information, it is no longer possible to hide underlying motives. ie Weapons of Mass Destruction, Water-boarding and those who feel torture of fellow humans is necessary. It is sooo odd that wars occurring for human rights, are most often in the countries of the oil rich!!. Even the slowly emerging countries are no long naive. Even very young children in the west recognize blatant propaganda.

Most historians believe the Treat of Versailles was the root cause of WWII. The treat laid the fault of WWI totally on Germany, and was an act of revenge rather than anything else.

World War II actually started with a Serbian shooting an Austrian. So nothing is really how it seems. It is like several witnesses to an automobile accident. No two will match up.

Ooops sorry, I knew that. Tired from shopping all day.

 

[Spade]

Not Australian. Austro-Hungarian

 

[Cliffy]

History isn't an exact science. Any historian would tell you that. Are you trying to suggest we shouldnt even attempt to find out what happened because we'll never know anything 100%?

Well, it has been said that we must know our history so that we don't repeat it. We have libraries full ofhistory and we haven't learned a gawd damn thing. So tell me again why we need to know our biased history and what it is good for.

Not Australian. Austro-Hungarian

They all look alike.

 

[SLM]

Not Australian. Austro-Hungarian

Potato, tomato.

 

[Spade]

Brit, Schmidt

 

[JLM]

"
World War II actually started with a Serbian shooting an Australian. So nothing is really how it seems. It is like several witnesses to an automobile accident. No two will match up.

THAT sounds more like W.W. 1......................an Arch duke was the way I heard it. W.W.2 started when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, methinks.

 

[Spade]

THAT sounds more like W.W. 1......................an Arch duke was the way I heard it. W.W.2 started when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, methinks.

Yep, WWI; nope, Poland

 

[darkbeaver]

"History is fables agreed upon." -- Francois Voltaire, French philosopher and author, 1694--1778

 

[JLM]

Yep, WWI; nope, Poland

Yep, Poland. My memory is good but it's short! :smile:

 

[bluebyrd35]

THAT sounds more like W.W. 1......................an Arch duke was the way I heard it. W.W.2 started when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, methinks.

Sorry again, damn, I'm going for a nap. Yes it was WWI where a Serb killed an Austrian and WWII was Hitler invading Poland with Russia following 15 days after.