World War II: The Holocaust

[lone wolf]

For me to answer that honestly, you'll have to expand on that for me?

You didn't recognize the mean-spirited mud-slinging?

 

[SLM]

We as a people never participated in the Holocaust as willing partners - Check the history of how many countries distanced themselves by stating - Not us - it was the Nazi's - Austria is just a recent addition to a long list acknowledging their active participation in the Holocaust. The Nazi's had lots of help in this. Check the history.

That changes peoples of those countries opinion - They I understand consider denial of the Holocaust a Hate Crime.

Still lots of free speech - demonstrations etc in Europe.

I don't deny the existence of the holocaust.

I don't deny the sordid history of the Nazi's or of other countries that were essentially complicit in the atrocities by either actively participating or passive disregarding what went on.

I don't deny that there are many countries that have a law on their books which states Holocaust denial is a Hate Crime.

But from the bottom of my heart I do not believe you root out evil by shunning it and allowing it fester in the dark. You drag it out into the harsh light of day and confront it head on. That's how you work to make the world a better place.

 

[CDNBear]

You didn't recognize the mean-spirited mud-slinging?

Where? In the recent federal and provincial elections?

 

[gerryh]

.

Likely many.

Not many that I have met. They may be anti abortion, but damn near everyone I know justifies war the same as people in here do. The majority have no problem with the idea of putting to death the likes of Bernardo and Olson. They can justify the killing of another human being under, what they call, the right circumstances.

 

[lone wolf]

Where? In the recent federal and provincial elections?

Any one of them where the ads play bully so the really dumb will swallow and sway their way.

 

[CDNBear]

Not many that I have met. They may be anti abortion, but damn near everyone I know justifies war the same as people in here do. The majority have no problem with the idea of putting to death the likes of Bernardo and Olson. They can justify the killing of another human being under, what they call, the right circumstances.

Sorry Gh, I was giving Christians in general, the benfit of the doubt.

My bad.

Any one of them where the ads play bully so the really dumb will swallow and sway their way.

Gotchya.

 

[Goober]

Not many that I have met. They may be anti abortion, but damn near everyone I know justifies war the same as people in here do. The majority have no problem with the idea of putting to death the likes of Bernardo and Olson. They can justify the killing of another human being under, what they call, the right circumstances.

I do not believe in the death penalty in our justice system

I do believe in targeting terrorists that plan to kill people -

I do not support abortion in about 98 % - rape, incest etc.

i do believe it is the sole right of the woman to choose - It is her sole decision to make. Not yours -

 

[CDNBear]

I believe I'll have another drink...






















If only I drank.

 

[gerryh]

ya, not drinking can be a bitch sometimes.

 

[CDNBear]

ya, not drinking can be a bitch sometimes.

Meh. I like me better without copious amounts of alcohol. Free, that is, lol.

 

[JLM]

Holocaust denial isn't hate speech. It's denying something took place.

I suppose if a person wants to look like a total moron he should have that right. When most people get a report from someone who's been there they tend to believe it and there's still a few people alive who were there.

Not many that I have met. They may be anti abortion, but damn near everyone I know justifies war the same as people in here do. The majority have no problem with the idea of putting to death the likes of Bernardo and Olson. They can justify the killing of another human being under, what they call, the right circumstances.

I don't think that is a bad thing Gerry. If you look at any aspect of life over a long enough period of time, you will generally find that a single rule doesn't apply to every situation. I prefer to examine each case on it's owns merits. We keep humans alive under conditions that would be considered cruel if we did it to a horse or a dog.

 

[gerryh]

The point is JLM, you can't dismiss it by using the "religion" argument.

 

[JLM]

i do believe it is the sole right of the woman to choose - It is her sole decision to make. Not yours -

The problem is the subject doesn't have a say.

ya, not drinking can be a bitch sometimes.

Twenty- five years ago I would have agreed whole heartedly, now I don't think any of the sh*t is what it's cracked up to be. I still have friends who are drinkers and that doesn't bother me, at least until they get yapping in my ear repetitively.

The point is JLM, you can't dismiss it by using the "religion" argument.

I tend to agree. A lot of "religion" gets tweaked to suit the beholder. :smile:

 

[Colpy]

Yes, Israel exists today, in large part as a salve to the guilt of Western Allies and in part because of the anti-semitism that still existed after the war but that was an afterthought. During the war, Israel wasn't on the radar. I just wonder sometimes if the West didn't trade X million European Jews for 2X, 3X or 10X other Eastern Europeans by choosing the Soviets over the Nazis. Would the Holocaust have happened to the degree it did, if von Stauffenberg's group or one of the others had had more support from the OSI? The plot featured in Tom Cruise's movie didn't culiminate until July 1944 but there were earlier ones, and the Final Solution wasn't fully implemented until July 1942 (its believed 1 million Jews had died at that point but thats still better than 6).

In the end, we can't change what happened or who died but I always wonder was there a better choice available? Will there be a better choice next time? Its sad but I believe, as a species, we don't learn lessons like this, we forget and repeat them on a larger scale.

There were a number of assassination attempts, but only Von Stauffenberg's attempt actually was carried out. An armed volunteer soldier in a staff meeting with many other officers and Hitler lost his nerve. A military man that modeled new uniforms for Hitler was fitted with an explosive belt in an attempted suicide attack.......but Hitler kept cancelling the showing, and the model lost his nerve.........most exasperatingly, two bombs in the form of magnums of Champagne were put on his private plane with him......two, as double jeopardy, in case one failed to explode. BOTH failed to explode.

Anyway, it is a common error to consider Israel balm for Nazi atrocities.....instead, Israel was the only sane solution to 1,000 years of never-ceasing Jew persecution and murder in Europe, of which the holocaust was only the climax.

 

[JLM]

There were a number of assassination attempts, but only Von Stauffenberg's attempt actually was carried out. An armed volunteer soldier in a staff meeting with many other officers and Hitler lost his nerve. A military man that modeled new uniforms for Hitler was fitted with an explosive belt in an attempted suicide attack.......but Hitler kept cancelling the showing, and the model lost his nerve.........most exasperatingly, two bombs in the form of magnums of Champagne were put on his private plane with him......two, as double jeopardy, in case one failed to explode. BOTH failed to explode.

Anyway, it is a common error to consider Israel balm for Nazi atrocities.....instead, Israel was the only sane solution to 1,000 years of never-ceasing Jew persecution and murder in Europe, of which the holocaust was only the climax.

I heard one story where a grenade was hurled into a room that Hitler occupied but a table leg got in the way. Anyway he was able to identify the perpetrator and got even by annihilating his entire village. I'd like to find a link to that.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Especially if they're better than you at it.... ;-)

Makes sense if you want to shut down discussion.

IBut it is one of petros' favourite tactics.

Clearly

You spoke to soon.

Yes I guess I did.

 

[darkbeaver]

The images from the link in the OP were horrific. However as usual with this type of article, the Warsaw Ghetto is portrayed incorrectly. It was not just established "only a few years ago [before the war]". Wikipedia says that it was established in 1940, but that is simply not true. A 'ghetto' is a community of non-natives inside a country, usually within a city-centre. That area in Warsaw has existed, as a ghetto, for centuries.

I wonder about Wikedpedia. Israel is a ghetto.

It's impossible to deny the holocaust of course because it still functions. Holocaust is a fact of life in the twenty first century.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I wonder about Wikedpedia. Israel is a ghetto.

It's impossible to deny the holocaust of course because it still functions. Holocaust is a fact of life in the twenty first century.

That didn't take too long.

 

[CDNBear]

That didn't take too long.

DB always tips his cards. Patience pays off.

Not that anyone was unaware of his genocidal tendencies.

 

[darkbeaver]

There were a number of assassination attempts, but only Von Stauffenberg's attempt actually was carried out. An armed volunteer soldier in a staff meeting with many other officers and Hitler lost his nerve. A military man that modeled new uniforms for Hitler was fitted with an explosive belt in an attempted suicide attack.......but Hitler kept cancelling the showing, and the model lost his nerve.........most exasperatingly, two bombs in the form of magnums of Champagne were put on his private plane with him......two, as double jeopardy, in case one failed to explode. BOTH failed to explode.

Anyway, it is a common error to consider Israel balm for Nazi atrocities.....instead, Israel was the only sane solution to 1,000 years of never-ceasing Jew persecution and murder in Europe, of which the holocaust was only the climax.

Only one thousand years eh. You really do know nothing about history Colpy.