If i could i would take your post and compost it. Manure is good for the soil.
Palestinian "Unilateral Declaration of Independence"
- Thread starter Colpy
- Start date
If i could i would take your post and compost it. Manure is good for the soil.
I already told you to stop lying, stop dismissing, stop ignoring, stop demonizing, and I would show you some respect.
Colpy's been harder on you than I lately. My guess is, you're running out of people to talk at around here, and he's you last hold out.
Except Israeli's.
But we'll hold Israeli ones to a different standard.
So is genocide, but you support Hamas, who has a written policy of genocide.
Tell that to Hamas.
Yet you support Hamas, you ignore Israel's human rights policies, you hold Israel to a higher standard than Muslims.
Why?
The single state solution is a final solution.
Is that what you want?
If Israel includes the West Bank and Gaza, how can they be an occupying force? How is Israel occupying Gaza? Or the West Bank for that matter?
Perhaps you'd like to share your opinions.
"Israeli's"?
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-2011
Did you miss the mall? The full markets? The olympic sized swimming pool?
There you go, rewriting international law again.
EAO: I made my position very clear in my post. I believe firmly in actual history and not revisionist tendancies to cherry-pick happenings.
Yes; there have been illegal happenings that border on atrocities that have happened on both sides of this on-going debacle, but to pick only those that serve to cast Israel as the aggressor is tantamount to ignoring facts easily garnered from the archives of any impartial news media and I have to ask; "why would you do that", unless you yourself are of a particular preconceived mindset.
There are a number of issues in the mix here that obfuscate things disproportionatly in favour of the israeli's and two of which are the historical treatment of the Palestinians by other Arabs and also the religious zealotry of Islam that precludes rational thought.
I would have an open mind on the issue of human rights and agreed-to accords being infinged or broken by either party if, on the one hand, we weren't faced with an avowed conviction to not recognize those rights by any believers of islam and on the other an avowed refusal to recognize the accords reached to create the state of Israel.
Until you have a major world change in the thinking by both of those entities I'm afraid I'm going to remain closed minded, biased, bigoted and any other 'ed'd you might wish to categorize me in support of a historicly oppressed people surrounded by a hoard of religious and racist zealots all bent on the complete erradication of all Jews ANYWHERE.
The U.N. created this boondoggle in the same sense that a playground supervisor informed both the nerds and the bullies that they had to share the playground with one being reasonably content to do so but the other continuing to simmer and taking every opportunity to throw a punch when the supervisor is out of sight. No sense in the nerds always screaming "he hit me again" but also no surprise when they find themselves in possession of a baseball bat and use it to remind the bullies they're not leaving the playground either.
Common sense has hitherto had no place in this exchange; either over there where it's being lived or here on this forum debating the relative moral credibility of their positions.
Yes; there have been illegal happenings that border on atrocities that have happened on both sides of this on-going debacle, but to pick only those that serve to cast Israel as the aggressor is tantamount to ignoring facts easily garnered from the archives of any impartial news media and I have to ask; "why would you do that", unless you yourself are of a particular preconceived mindset.
There are a number of issues in the mix here that obfuscate things disproportionatly in favour of the israeli's and two of which are the historical treatment of the Palestinians by other Arabs and also the religious zealotry of Islam that precludes rational thought.
I would have an open mind on the issue of human rights and agreed-to accords being infinged or broken by either party if, on the one hand, we weren't faced with an avowed conviction to not recognize those rights by any believers of islam and on the other an avowed refusal to recognize the accords reached to create the state of Israel.
Until you have a major world change in the thinking by both of those entities I'm afraid I'm going to remain closed minded, biased, bigoted and any other 'ed'd you might wish to categorize me in support of a historicly oppressed people surrounded by a hoard of religious and racist zealots all bent on the complete erradication of all Jews ANYWHERE.
The U.N. created this boondoggle in the same sense that a playground supervisor informed both the nerds and the bullies that they had to share the playground with one being reasonably content to do so but the other continuing to simmer and taking every opportunity to throw a punch when the supervisor is out of sight. No sense in the nerds always screaming "he hit me again" but also no surprise when they find themselves in possession of a baseball bat and use it to remind the bullies they're not leaving the playground either.
Common sense has hitherto had no place in this exchange; either over there where it's being lived or here on this forum debating the relative moral credibility of their positions.
Eloquently written.
But nothing that hasn't been said to EAO a hundred times, by myself and many others.
Soon you'll be called an Israeli apologist too.
Not all, many yes. How about the Jews that were forced out of countries they lived in for centuries. Enough blame to go around is my opinion.
Who is cherry picking???? This is your first post in this thread which admits "illegal happenings" "on both sides". You never described the Israeli ones, but you did describe the Palestinian ones in detail.
Your spin isn't that different from our news which seldom reports Israeli atrocities but does report in great detail every Palestinian one, creating a common simplification of this conflict as Palestinians terrorizing Israeli victims. Our news never criticizes Israel for ethnic cleansing, colonizing occupied land and blocking international food and medical humanitarian aid. Few Canadians know that most of the West Bank and Jerusalem as defined by 1967 border is off limits to most Palestinians, let alone aware land confiscated from the occupied people by the occupying people violates international law.
I referenced AI's most recent annual report in a recent post. Based on your response, I doubt you read it, so I'll post the summary/background and people can judge which side suffers oppression and injustice and which side causes oppression and injustice.
AI Regarding the Palestinian Authorities:
Summary
In the West Bank, the security forces of the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority (PA) arbitrarily detained people connected with Hamas, while in the Gaza Strip the Hamas de facto administration arbitrarily detained people connected with Fatah. In both areas, detainees were tortured and otherwise ill-treated with virtual impunity. Both the PA and Hamas restricted freedom of expression and association. In Gaza, at least 11 people were sentenced to death and five executions were carried out, the first since 2005. The humanitarian crisis for the Gaza Strip’s 1.5 million residents deepened as Israel’s military blockade of the territory, as well as sanctions on the de facto Hamas authorities imposed by other states, were maintained.
Background The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip remained under Israeli occupation, although two separate non-state Palestinian authorities operated with limited powers – the Fatah-led caretaker PA government in the West Bank headed by Prime Minister Salam Fayyad; and the Hamas de facto administration in Gaza headed by former PA Prime Minister Isma’il Haniyeh. Tension between Fatah and Hamas remained high.
Hamas and its affiliated armed groups largely maintained the unofficial ceasefire with Israel in force since January 2009, but other Palestinian armed groups sporadically fired indiscriminate rockets and mortars from Gaza into southern Israel...
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
AI Regarding Israel:
Summary
A ceasefire between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups agreed in January 2009 was generally respected. The Israeli army maintained draconian controls on the movement of Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), including a blockade on the Gaza Strip that deepened hardship and virtually imprisoned the entire population of 1.5 million. The Israeli authorities rejected or delayed applications for permits to leave Gaza submitted by hundreds of Palestinians requiring specialist medical treatment; a few died as a result. Most of Gaza’s inhabitants depended on international aid, which was severely hampered by the blockade. In May, Israeli forces killed nine men aboard an aid flotilla in international waters that was aiming to breach the blockade. In the West Bank, the movement of Palestinians was severely curtailed by hundreds of Israeli checkpoints and barriers, and by the 700km fence/wall that Israel continued to build mostly inside the West Bank. There was a substantial increase in the number of demolitions by Israeli authorities of Palestinian homes, water cisterns and other structures in the West Bank, affecting thousands of people. Israeli authorities also destroyed homes in Bedouin villages in the south of Israel. The expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on seized Palestinian land, partially frozen until 26 September, resumed. Israel still did not conduct adequate investigations into alleged war crimes and other serious violations of international law by its forces during Operation “Cast Lead”, the 22-day offensive in Gaza in December 2008/January 2009, during which nearly 1,400 Palestinians, including more than 300 children, were killed. Israeli soldiers and settlers who committed serious abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, assaults and attacks against property, were generally not held to account for their crimes. Israeli military forces killed 33 Palestinian civilians in the OPT, including eight children. Hundreds of Palestinians were arrested and detained by Israeli forces; at least 264 were held without charge or trial under administrative detention orders, some had been held for over two years. Reports of torture and other ill-treatment were frequent, but investigations were rare. Around 6,000 Palestinians remained in Israeli prisons, many after unfair military trials. Israeli conscientious objectors to military service continued to be imprisoned.
Background
The border area between Israel and Lebanon remained tense. On 3 August, an exchange of fire between Israeli and Lebanese soldiers resulted in the deaths of at least three soldiers and a Lebanese journalist.
While the ceasefire between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups was largely maintained, the latter periodically fired indiscriminate rockets and mortars into southern Israel (see Palestinian Authority entry), although at a lower rate than in previous years, and Israeli forces attacked and killed Palestinians they said were responsible. On 31 August, four Israeli settlers were shot dead in the West Bank; the attack was claimed by the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, the Palestinian group that won elections in 2006 and administers Gaza.
Negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), but excluding Hamas, were convened by the US government in September. However, they were soon suspended when Israel’s 10-month partial moratorium on new settlement-building in the OPT ended on 26 September, prompting the PA’s withdrawal from direct talks. The moratorium had excluded East Jerusalem and its surrounding area, and in the West Bank construction for “security needs” and of public buildings had continued unabated...
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
You mention historical Arab treatment of Palestinians, like Palestinians have always been treated poorly. Its a fact that Muslim, Jewish and Christian Palestinians lived together in relative peace under the protection of the Ottoman empire. Religious minorities in the Ottoman empire tended to be well tolerated as long as they paid their taxes. Occasionally Muslim majority countries including the Ottomans treated their religious minorities poorly, but I see no evidence that Muslim countries treated Jews worse than Christians or that Arab Muslims treated Jews as harshly as European Christians treated Jews.
I am agnostic, and tend to see all religions the same way. I respect other people's belief systems up to the point where it leads to violence or criminal behavior. You mentioned religious zealotry, yet you completely ignore the zealots who believe they are God's chosen people and as a result have a religious based entitlement to other people's property and the right to violently cleanse the holy lands of people they believe God didn't chose. They believe the people without land, (themselves) have a right to the land without people (not counting the 1.5 million or so people already living on that land). Do people who believe these things meet your definition of religious zealotry, or is your definition of religious zealotry restricted angry bitter nationless refugee angrily making empty threats against the people they believe are responsible for their suffering.
Jews do not face an eradication threat today, nor are they likely to face such a threat in the near future. I am well aware of how badly Europeans treated Jews over 60 years ago. But its a fact that Jews can live safely in Canada, the US, most of Europe, all of south and Central America and the far east, Australia....
Zionists (religious zealots) came to this land with the intent of redeeming it. (cleansing the holy lands of non-Jews). We can see the results. Millions of violently displaced people who have no nationality or fundamental human rights. Your portrayal of mostly unarmed peasants who ended up in refugee camps as bullies armed with baseball bats picking on an unarmed nerd lacks credibility when you consider a few facts. Israel is undeniably the most powerful nation in the middle east. Israel is only middle east state armed with nuclear weapons. Every time the Palestinians seek to freedom or justice before the UNSC, the US crushes it with a veto.
About 6 months ago, the US vetoed a UNSC resolution regarding Israel's blatant colonization of ethnically cleansed occupied land. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis (Jews only) illegally live in the West Bank. Not only does Israel allow this crime, they encourage and subsidize it. Palestinians are powerless to stop this crime and yet they are the bullies armed with baseball bats???
Regarding bullies with baseball bats, I don't have to make stuff up. I can post links to videos.
Israeli Human Rights Group B'Tselem:
On 8 June ‘08, two settlers tried unsuccessfully to drive shepherds off Palestinian land near Khirbet Susiya. After they left, the shepherds called relatives for reinforcement, fearing an attack. Among those who came was Muna a-Nawaj’ah, with a video camera she received from B'Tselem. Ten minutes later, she filmed four masked men armed with clubs approaching the family and attacking one of the shepherds. They then severely beat other members of the family.
Settlers attack shepherds in Southern Hebron Hills | B'Tselem
I noticed your never expressed any empathy for people crushed by a wall of human excrement. Instead you attempted to obfuscate their suffering by a lame redirection regarding arms smuggling... so I don't expect you to feel any empathy for the people beaten by thugs with baseball bats either. You are probably on the side of the people with baseball bats. I'm making everyone aware of this so when they read your responses they'll notice your lack of empathy for Palestinian suffering.
BTW, I am on the side of civilians on both sides who just want to live in peace.
Also you completely ignored these two questions:
Do Israelis have any responsibility for the suffering described in detail by AI's 2010 report?
Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights
Should Arabs and Jews be allowed to intermarry? Please describe your honest reaction to the thought of an Arab man marrying a Jewish woman.
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O so true. Underlining this reality....the proposed Palestinian state that Abbas is petitioning for would have the same policy. Can you believe that? Palestinians NOT WELCOME in Palestine. Even if this state becomes a reality, the "refugees" in Lebanon, Jordan, etc. would NOT be repatriated.
What a joke.
edit: I don't expect to see a lot of emigration of Arabs from Israel either!
I am serious. I just happen to think Christians being displaced is a really really ****ty thing to have happen to them whether Arab or not.
Are they? Can you tell the difference between a Semite Jew a Semite Christian and Semite Muzzie just by looking at them or all they are just people living ****ty lives?
If you want somebody to blame start hacking at the Saudi Whabiism and Darbyists.
Darbyists, Wahabis and Zionists are nut jobs and will all perish due to their stupidity.
If you want somebody to blame start hacking at the Saudi Whabiism and Darbyists.
Darbyists, Wahabis and Zionists are nut jobs and will all perish due to their stupidity.
