Big Explosion in Oslo

[Just the Facts]

In order to corrupt a democracy, you don't need to manipulate everyone. Just 51%. Even if the other 49% see through the BS, they can't do much about it.

bing bing bing bing bing!!!

We have a winner, and a succinct explanation as to why EAO is so fond of the "one state solution".

Now, back to our regular thread.....

 

[DaSleeper]

How these cartoon will be received by those who don't believe in free speech....hmmm?

A Nova Scotia newspaper says it stands behind its decision to run a cartoon commenting on the Oslo bombing that some of its readers called offensive.


The Cape Breton Post of Sydney, N.S., ran a cartoon on Tuesday depicting two men in turbans, long beards and tunics sitting on a pile of human skulls and reading a newspaper headlined "Oslo massacre." One of the men says, "Wow, they're blowing themselves up," while the other replies, "Perfect . . ."


Post managing editor Tom Ayers said he stands behind the cartoon, drawn by artist Sean Casey, because it is a fair comment on what Muslim terrorists might be thinking in reaction to the Norway attacks.


"It does not portray all Muslims as terrorists. It doesn't portray all terrorists as Muslims," he said. "It is a caricature of Muslim terrorists . . . There are, in fact, Muslim terrorists, so how you could object to that, I don't know."


In a letter to the newspaper, reader Toby Morris called it racial profiling. "The men are not labelled as members of any terrorist group, but by their beards, facial appearance and clothing it is clear that they represent a certain ethnic group. What is the link between them and the Norwegian attacks?"


Another reader called the cartoon offensive and called for an apology to the Muslim community. The reader added that the "overwhelming grief" of the people of Norway was "being trivialized for a cheap joke."


John Miller, a professor at Ryerson University and former editorial cartoonist, said the drawing can be seen to send the message that all Muslims, not only extremists, rejoiced at the terrible event.


"When you look at it, the people don't really look like terrorists," Miller said. Aside from the clue of the human skulls the characters look like ordinary people.


Miller added that the cartoon does not merit censorship and the paper was free to publish it, but the comment is not necessarily fair.


Ayers said he thinks readers were offended because the cartoon refers to a recent horrific event and so they missed the message.


"The cartoon isn't taking a stand on whether it's a horrific thing," he said. "(It's) saying the Norwegian homegrown terrorist's agenda seems to match up with what Islamic terrorists are trying to do."


The Post has had a total of five letters so far from readers, four of which were critical of the cartoon, Ayers said, and some comments (both positive and negative) were also made on the paper's website.


"I wouldn't call it a big controversy," Ayers said. "It's more of a dialogue or debate."


He added that Casey, the artist, "takes these things quite well. He doesn't mind provoking controversy. He's not afraid of it."


Read more: Muslim terrorist cartoon sparks debate after Oslo attack

I saw the cartoons on TV and I couldn't see them as being controversial since they were kinda making fun of us in the west...

 

[earth_as_one]

Different cultures have different hot spots. Look at us Canadians. We are polite and respectful until we strap on skates and pick up a hockey stick.

I personally am not offended by jokes about Islam. But then again I'm not Muslim.

Many people including myself would find jokes about the Holocaust to be offensive. I heard a few over the years, but I don't repeat them out of respect. For the same reason, I refrain from telling jokes which might offend Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Gays...

 

[DaSleeper]

The prison where the killer will probably be held.....Justice Bah!

The Super-Lux Super Max - An FP Slide Show | Foreign Policy

Keep clicking next for more pictures

 

[gopher]

... would be better if he was hung from a tree. Or better yet, sent to a Turkish prison.

 

[CDNBear]

The biggest danger of all is complacency. Brevicks views are not his alone. In fact, I distinctly recall seeing several postings in this very thread that spoke to the same ideologies. Of course that would be before it was revealed who this terrorist was.

You mean like this one?

Reports are that someone dressed as a policeman is randomly shooting people just outside of Oslo right now.

Norway is taking action against a radical Islamic cleric and is involved in the Afghan war. They also reprinted the infamous Mohammed cartoons. So its not a stretch that a radical Muslim extremist is behind the attacks. BTW, I was in Oslo on business just 2 months ago. I was working in the suburbs, but I did stroll around downtown and I recognize the street from the photos.

That and those that support Israel's treatment of the Palestinians like it was their god given right.

What treatment?

What's disturbing is that many on here have the same visceral hatred for Muslims.

Who? And provide quotes please.

Incorrect. From page 1307 of his manifesto:

"If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. That makes us Christian."

Sounds like he's using Christianity to justify his crimes, to me.

The right wing ideology seems to be similar to what Hitler wanted, and indeed even what the people in Israel want ... a pure race and culture. In Japan too.

Korea, both North and South. Veitnam, Laos, The list is lengthy, and not really a right wing ideology.

What was Islam up to during the "dark ages"? Sitting around eating figs and getting diarrhea or did they dive head first into sciences, building and music?

As I have said several times. They were at the hight of their renaissance.

So what happened?

Then why do you ride their unoriginal coat tails? Moi doesn't.

Let's hear something original.

Yes, lets. Have you got anything?

The bomb was a distraction, to keep the police busy and out of his way. Building a bomb takes careful planning to get the materials and assembly without being noticed by authorities. He went to all that trouble so that he could go on a 1.5 hour shooting spree without interference. Ya, there were a lot of logistics.

I can make a bomb strong enough to level a decent building, in less than an hour, with materials readily available within a 5 minute drive from my house.

It isn't hard.

The dirty little secret that isn't being heard in Western Media.....

I heard it on CFNY.

Neat office you have.

Post number 4 in this thread


Post number 5


My comment was in response to T's post and news reports at the time which speculated this incident might be related to al Qaeda or Islamic extremism. I was not jumping to a conclusion, agreeing with those reports, nor was I even remotely attempting to justify the attack. I used the phrase " its not a stretch that a radical Muslim extremist is behind the attacks". I admit my speculative and cryptic phrase might be difficult to decipher.

So I completely understand why hours later after more reports came in, with the benefit of hindsight, Macho and CB might have might have misinterpreted my posts:




For the benefit of M and C, I'd like to clarify my previous post just for them. I meant to say:

Machjo and CB can kiss my ass.

There I hope that clarifies the meaning of " its not a stretch that a radical Muslim extremist is behind the attacks". I apologize for not being clearer on my meaning.

Easy there EAO, that looks a lot like an insult. Not that it does any good to hide your apology for your assumed Islamic attack.

You can make up all the stories you want, they're as see through as your double standard. You were instantly making excuses for what you thought were an attack by extreme Islam.

This nutcase's ideology regarding Zionism, Israel, Palestinians and the use of violence to achieve objectives are more closely aligned with many Israeli apologists on this forum than with my ideology.

Got any quotes to back that up?

I consistently condemn all violence directed at civilians, regardless of the victims race, religion or nationality. I support non-violent resistance to oppression and injustice.

Except when you make excuses for Islamic violence.

I'm against all these violent crimes. How about you dS?

Like myself, he's against them. The difference is, we don't make up reasons to excuse them.

This really bothers you that this guy was christian and murdered all those kids in the name of Zionism and there is **** all you can say or do to change that.

No, I think it's more like he doesn't like Christianity being blamed enmass, like you don't like Islam being blamed enmass.

Neat how you two have something in common.

I have never expressed support for any act of violence directed innocent civilians. If you believe otherwise, please quote me.

I already did, you ignored the post filled with your own words, then reported it.

I noticed you have never condemned a single act of violence directed at innocent Palestinian civilians, regardless of how outrageous...

I have, but I don't believe everything the media tells me that Israel has done wrong, based on anecdotal evidence. While ignoring all claims of transgressions by the Palestinians, until all evidence is heard in a court of law.

That indicates that you might share many of the same anti-Palestinians hate ideologies as this nutcase in Oslo.

Your insult aside, it's actually a better example of your logic, than anyone elses.

That is because they don't show you the moderates who condemn the actions of the radical fundamentalists.

Feel free to show us than Cliffy.

Those are not news, only the nut jobs are. EAO is right, the media manipulates public opinion.

I agree, EAO's ideology being an excellent example.

A pity for the extreme right who will suffer a huge blow to their cult because of the ongoing investigation.

Who knew unchecked multiculturalism would create blowback, akin to what the west has faced from extreme Islam.

...But when a Muslim commits these crimes he's perfectly sane and was told by his book to commit these crimes.

Partly correct. They're insane, and they use their book to justify it.

Why is it when extreme Islam attacks the west, it's because the west has opressed them. But when some nutter attacks Islam, he's just a Christian right winger, with no justification?

You might like this short interview on Fox which twists this into a story about Islamic terrorism.

There you go, confusing Op/Ed for news again.

The comments were pretty good:

To an extremist perhaps.

Every once and a while, the few loose control of the message. Now is one of those times and you can see them squirm to try to get it back.

What message? Who's squirming?

Likely they will succeed, because in general, people have short attention spans and don't care about how many people die somewhere else, even if our leaders are responsible.

Like yourself? Your focus on Israel, for a combined death toll just under 200,000. Is put in perspective, by the energy you put into demonizing Israel. While you pay mere lip service to Islamic nations causing death tolls in the millions.

This event is one example of where demonizing propaganda leads.

Quite, you're doing a fantastic job.

Newsflash for Colpy,
Muslims are always blamed when a Muslim nutcase commits an atrocity.

Like you blame Israel for anything you can remotely stick to them.

Blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few Muslim nutjobs is a mainstream viewpoint promoted by FoxNews pundits:

Blaming the whole of Israel, for the acts of a few Soldiers, is a viewpoint promoted by Jew haters.

When news of this atrocity broke, Muslims were initially blamed by many American news sources:

And you, right before you went on to make excuses for it.

Also, you should think carefully about your personal perceptions and ideology regarding Muslims and how close your views are to this nutjob in Oslo...

I agree, it exposes so much about you.

I agree that we should not blame groups of people for the actions of individuals, without exceptions... even Muslim exceptions.

Just not "Israeli" exceptions.
​

As for your comparison of my ideology and that of the monster, I suggest you go **** yourself. No other comment is possible to that particular insult.

That wasn't an insult Colpy. EAO never insults people. Or so he's claimed, ad nauseum.

Ezra, McCondell and praise for the Sun all on the same page.. Hey we might as well make this a Palestine vs. Israel thread since we're already there.

Thanx to the usual suspects.

I think I just vomitted a bit in my mouth.

Stop reading your posts if you don't like it.

Yes, it's an extension of a false dilemma. Canada has all three, with lower rates of terrorism than countries that have only two of the three.

Why is that?

I'm also not a fan of Bernie Farber, but I agree with his statement as quoted by Haroon Siddiqui

You agree with a Zionist?

 

[DaSleeper]

When some nutjob shoots up a schoolyard in North America, you can expect that the left's knee jerk reaction is to pass new gun laws....they seem to be on the edge of their seat just waiting for something like that to happen to give themselves “raison d'aître.”

Now in the wake of this latest nut job's rampage, why am not surprised, since he seems to be a right wing extemist nut, To have all the leftards of the world salivating,, nay, having a multiple orgasms, at the prospect of being able to crow over conservatives, or Christians and claim victory on everything, including the answer to every ill in the world???

So...let them gloat...it won't take long for another nutcase or islamic extremist to upstage this last one... and they will be left in the dark, backstage, wringning their little hands hoping for another chance at the limelight........

 

[SLM]

You mean like this one?

Fair enough. I'll admit to reacting to a reaction. Hey, I'm human.

I don't like extremists attitudes. Any extremist attitude, irrespective of the which side of the ideological debate they come from. A differing POV I can respect but when it denegrates into hatred, it troubles me.

Maybe my own anger at another's anger is my own hubris?

 

[CDNBear]

Fair enough. I'll admit to reacting to a reaction. Hey, I'm human. ... Maybe my own anger at another's anger is my own hubris?

This is what separates you from the usual suspects. You understand the intricacies of man, recognize your own failings and admit them openly. Which is why I may not always agree with you, but I will always show you respect.

I don't like extremists attitudes. Any extremist attitude, irrespective of the which side of the ideological debate they come from. A differing POV I can respect but when it denegrates into hatred, it troubles me.

Ditto. Which is why people should counter the hatred posted by the likes of the usual suspects.

 

[SLM]

This is what separates you from the usual suspects. You understand the intricacies of man, recognize your own failings and admit them openly. Which is why I may not always agree with you, but I will always show you respect.

Ditto. Which is why people should counter the hatred posted by the likes of the usual suspects.

Cool. Thank you, that respect is reciprocated on my part as well.

Many of the posters that I respect the most are the ones that I have agreed the least with (as far as individual postings go, and not overall attitudes I mean). It's easy to have a discussion with someone who thinks exactly the way you do. It's also kind of boring. I learn a hell of a lot more about others, and about myself, by reading differing points of view to my own.

 

[earth_as_one]

When some nutjob shoots up a schoolyard in North America, you can expect that the left's knee jerk reaction is to pass new gun laws....they seem to be on the edge of their seat just waiting for something like that to happen to give themselves “raison d'aître.”

Now in the wake of this latest nut job's rampage, why am not surprised, since he seems to be a right wing extemist nut, To have all the leftards of the world salivating,, nay, having a multiple orgasms, at the prospect of being able to crow over conservatives, or Christians and claim victory on everything, including the answer to every ill in the world???

So...let them gloat...it won't take long for another nutcase or islamic extremist to upstage this last one... and they will be left in the dark, backstage, wringning their little hands hoping for another chance at the limelight........

Right wing is an imprecise description.

His main influences are:

People
Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Aluma Dankowitz, Bat Ye'or, Pamela Geller, Bernard Lewis, Daniel Pipes...

Website:
AmericanThinker.com, jihadwatch.org, memri.org, faithfreedom.org, theReligionOfPeace.com, LittleGreenFootballs.com...

His right wing bent is an extreme form of neoconservativism.

Every person and website above is neoconservative. I can't claim to know much about these people or websites beyond that they are all neoconservative and are referenced by neoconservatives on this forum and others. I've read alot of what people here have quoted and referenced from these sources to know they promote an extremely intolerant anti-Muslim ideology which drove the Oslo killer to commit the Oslo massacre. Some sources may have incited violence.

After reading his manifest and from what I know in the news, this is what happened:

A Norwegian obsessed with an extreme neocon ideology came to the conclusion that Muslim immigration is a mortal threat to western culture. He concluded that Muslims will continue to immigrate and breed until they outnumber Norwegians. Once Muslims outnumber the Norwegians, they will use democratic means to impose Sharia law on the good citizens of Norway, eventually causing Norwegians to become enslaved into Dhimmitude. He concludes the west must protect itself from this Muslim cultural threat through forced assimilation, banning Muslim immigration and cultural isolation. The real enemy he concluded aren't Muslims who can't help being what they are. The real threat is Norwegian political leaders who embrace multiculturalism and are blind to the threat posed by Western Islamization.

In order to save Norway from cultural extinction, he planned to kill as many Norwegian politicians and members of their families as possible. He became a farmer in order to legally get his hands on fertilizers which could be used to make explosives. He trained to use firearms and became an expert marksmen. Just over a week ago he put his plan into action. He parked a car bomb outside the Prime Minister's office. Dressed as a police officer, he caught a ferry to an island where political leaders and their families vacationed. The diversionary car bomb blew up killing dozens of people and injuring scores of others, as he began slaughtering trapped men, women and children who had no means to leave the island. Some people survived by pretending to be dead. He spared a child's life when he begged that he was too young to die. The killing spree lasted at least 90 minutes before the police realized what was happening and got to the island. He was captured unharmed and sits in isolation awaiting trial. He killed about 80 people in all, mostly young people in their late teens and early twenties. His atrocity appears to be the result of years of careful planning and thought.

He wrote a manifest clearly explaining how he came to irrationally hate Muslims and why he committed this atrocity. He posted the manifest online and emailed it to about 1800 facebook friends and associates. The manifest also includes a call to arms for other right thinking defenders of Western Culture, bomb making recipes, strategies and tactics for carrying out similar missions. The manifest has gone viral on the internet. Copy cat violence is a virtual certainty.

His manifest references names of people and websites that "inspired" him to hate and kill. Some people on this forum are influenced by the same sources. Most neocons on this forum are moderates or liberal lefties compared to this monster.

...just sayin'...

...Many of the posters that I respect the most are the ones that I have agreed the least with (as far as individual postings go, and not overall attitudes I mean). It's easy to have a discussion with someone who thinks exactly the way you do. It's also kind of boring. I learn a hell of a lot more about others, and about myself, by reading differing points of view to my own.

Consider your influences.

If you are neoconservative than you have more in common with the people and websites listed above than you do with me.

Peace and Love to everyone!
No exceptions..

 

[CDNBear]

Every person and website above is neoconservative. I can't claim to know much about these people or websites beyond that they are all neoconservative and are used frequently by neoconservatives on this forum and others. I've read alot of what people quoted and referenced to know they promote an extremely intolerant anti-Muslim ideology which drove the Oslo killer to commit the Oslo massacre.

So now it's the fault of the webpages you admittedly know little about?

Some sources may have incited violence.

Or shed light on an issue. Since in the bulk of the times that these sites have been used to counter your hatred, you simply dismiss the site, without ever actually showing where the material was false.

After reading his manifest and from what I know in the news, this is what happened...

You differ from in action alone.

If you follow cable news then you have more in common with the people and websites listed above than you do with me.

Actually, SLM has nothing in common with you. She uses commonsense, logic and critical thought to filter the fact from the fiction.

Peace and Love to everyone!
No exceptions..

Except Jews.

 

[DaSleeper]

All I see is more deflection and goal post moving...

Let's not forget the definition of Dhimwit (not a reportable hate site:lol

 

[SLM]

Consider your influences.

If you follow cable news then you have more in common with the people and websites listed above than you do with me.

Doesn't that pre-suppose that there are only two sides to an issue? That I can only agree entirely with them or entirely with your point of view?

What if I don't particularly agree with either, at least not entirely? What then?

Often times I find I can see some merit in both sides of a debate, it's the act of completely negating one point of view over another that I find the most troublesome. It's an act that I myself have been guilty of many times in the past and will likely be many times in the future. It's just a hell of a lot easier to see it when other people do it. But I am as introspective on many of these issues as I may at times be on vocalizing my thoughts on other peoples views.

Mostly I'm just trying to muddle through and figure it all out.

It's the only me I know how to be.

 

[CDNBear]

Doesn't that pre-suppose that there are only two sides to an issue? That I can only agree entirely with them or entirely with your point of view?

What if I don't particularly agree with either, at least not entirely? What then?

Often times I find I can see some merit in both sides of a debate, it's the act of completely negating one point of view over another that I find the most troublesome. It's an act that I myself have been guilty of many times in the past and will likely be many times in the future. It's just a hell of a lot easier to see it when other people do it. But I am as introspective on many of these issues as I may at times be on vocalizing my thoughts on other peoples views.

Mostly I'm just trying to muddle through and figure it all out.

It's the only me I know how to be.

It also helps that you have one standard.

 

[SLM]

It also helps that you have one standard.

I try Bear, I really do try.

I'm not perfect, don't claim to be, never will. But I do try to be honest, with myself and with others.

Hopefully I hit that nail on the head more often than I miss.

 

[DaSleeper]

Merge????

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I would say a merger would be a best.

 

[CDNBear]

I agree.

Especially since EAO blamed Muslims within minutes of the thread being posted, and then went on to make excuses for them.

 

[spaminator]

Norwegian mass murderer Breivik makes Nazi salute at court | World | News | Toro