US vetoes UN resolution condemning ethnic cleansing

[earth_as_one]

So your on the side of the so called Palestinians against the state of Israel, copy that.. ;-)

We should choose sides. This isn't just a choice between which war criminals we like better, or which atrocities we will condemn and which we support. I'm on the side of Canadians. Our selfish best interests are not served by supporting any war crimes or crimes against humanity.

I equally condemn all war criminals, Palestinian and their allies and well as Israeli and their allies. But war criminals make up tiny minority on both sides.

Recent events in ths conflict:
I condemn firing missiles in the general direction of a city in the hope of randomly killing civilians.
I condemn herding an extended family into a single home... the entire neighborhood really, pounding it with heavy artillery fire, killing mostly women and children and then blocking medics and ambulances for three days.

.. But Palestine not only has the right to exist, but also the right to perpetuate war crimes against Israel?

I wonder if the 2 mentally incapacitated women were informed of their inalienable rights before or after the Palestinian terrorists group strapped bombs to them and detonated them remotely.

Some people really aren't hearing my message. Why would you think that because I am against one side's war crimes, I must support the other side's war criminals.

Canadians have been manipulated into supporting war criminals. The flawed logic starts with coverage of one side's war crimes and one side's suffering. If you dig a little, you discover that both sides commit war crimes and both sides suffer. That's when you get to where you are. You believe a message that you only have a choice between two evils.

We have more than two choices. Choosing the side of civilians means not supporting war crimes or crimes against humanity.

Once you filter this conflict through that lense, its plain to see that the side with more money and bombs commits more war crimes than the other. I'm sure the other war criminals would do worse if they could. I am against both of these sides.

As recent events in Egypt demonstrated, the average person just wants freedom and justice. While Palestinians have neither, Israel won't have peace.

 

[Cliffy]

Anybody who straps bombs to their chest has to be mentally incapacitated. Duh!

And if someone has bombs strapped to their chest and they explode, what is left to determine if they were mentally incapacitated before they strapped them on? Someone is pulling big Macs out of their ass and eating them.

 

[petros]

It's been a long time, 5-6 years since there has been a suicide bomber in Israel.

 

[earth_as_one]

You have again made the point others have said about you. You are so blinded by your hatred of a small country that is trying to survive surrounded by terrorist nations who are using gullible people like yourself to further their causes. You speak one thing and act totally opposite. I am thankful that you are only a minority of people who have been duped by Hamas propaganda. ...

You are so blinded by hate, you don't even understand what I write. You still think is a choice between the lesser of two evils. Since I don't support your side's evil, I must support the other side's evil. As a result, you support evil.

I've decided not to support evil.

I'm all for defending Israel from attacks onto its internationally recognized territory. You won't hear any argument from me there. However, Israel's current boundaries extend beyond that to occupied territory. Certainly the Palestinian will fight to try to take that land back.

Now I agree to a degree that, especially seeing that Palestine is clearly weaker than Israel militarily, that it's wasting its time fighting for it in military terms. Personally, if I were the leadership of Palestine, I'd order a ceasefire and at least try to enforce it on the Palestinian people, and then take the case to the UN General Assembly again asking Israel to return to within its pre-1967 borders.

Some might argue that if Israel refuses to give that land up when Palestine is fighting tooth and nail for it, that it is even less likely to give it back merely on a principled respect for the rule of law. What they'd be forgetting though would be the political impact. As long as Palestine continues to fight for that territory, it makes it easier to paint them as terrorists. Should they lay down their arm, Israel would certainly have no choice but to do the same under diplomatic pressure. Once the fighting ceases, heads would be a little more level, with possibly Zionist interests defending Israeli occupation of its post-1967 acquisitions, but with most countries siding with Palestine owing to clear international laws stipulating Israel's legitimate boundaries. That way, Palestine might be able to push some kind of limited embargo on Israel until it does cede its post-1967 acquisitions back to Palestine.

Palestine would also have the advantage of being able to make friends across the Arab world, but again, to avoid demonization based on prejudices, it could still encourage them not to take action against Israel except via UN resolutions against Israel and to push Israel to give its post1967 acquisitions back.

I realize this would likely require extremely cool heads seeing that it's quite understandable that Palestinians are outraged and so respond on emotion, which of course feeds the anti-Arab sentiment, ignoring that they are in fact fighting to take back land that international law itself recognizes and has always recognized as Palestinian land. Now sure some Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the map, but my guess is if israel gave them their legitimate land back, cooler heads would then prevail, not to mention that then we'd all be defending Israel's right to defend itself within its pre-1967 bounrdary.

The reason we're so divided on Israel in the first place is precisely because it's hard to morally defend a country that is occupying illegally conquered lands.

Which is why passing this resolution at the UNSC condemning Israeli settlement building (aka ethnic cleansing) was so important. If the vote passed, Palestinians would be able to pursue freedom and justice by legal non-violent means. Yes Israel would likely have ended up facing sanctions eventually. I'm sure the Brits, French and other Israeli allies who voted in favor would have dragged the consequences out for years. But the pressure would have been on to squeeze Israel into complying with international law.

Now that's pressure is completely off because of US domestic policy reasons. I blame manipulated Americans.

What other choices do Palestinians have left? The US blocks them at the UN. 40 Years of the US and Israeli pretending to negotiate peace while they steal their land. Either these people are going to have to liberate themselves the old fashioned way or they need a Gandhi like figure to lead them and attempt to non-violently overthrow their oppressors. Either way, many Palestinians will die.

 

[BaalsTears]

It's been a long time, 5-6 years since there has been a suicide bomber in Israel.

It's not for lack of trying.

 

[petros]

It's not for lack of trying.

Last trial was 4 years ago.

 

[captain morgan]

Last trial was 4 years ago.

Israeli security probably have much to do with this.

 

[petros]

Nope. Change in tactics.

 

[Machjo]

You are so blinded by hate, you don't even understand what I write. You still think is a choice between the lesser of two evils. Since I don't support your side's evil, I must support the other side's evil. As a result, you support evil.

I've decided not to support evil.



Which is why passing this resolution at the UNSC condemning Israeli settlement building (aka ethnic cleansing) was so important. If the vote passed, Palestinians would be able to pursue freedom and justice by legal non-violent means. Yes Israel would likely have ended up facing sanctions eventually. I'm sure the Brits, French and other Israeli allies who voted in favor would have dragged the consequences out for years. But the pressure would have been on to squeeze Israel into complying with international law.

Now that's pressure is completely off because of US domestic policy reasons. I blame manipulated Americans.

What other choices do Palestinians have left? The US blocks them at the UN. 40 Years of the US and Israeli pretending to negotiate peace while they steal their land. Either these people are going to have to liberate themselves the old fashioned way or they need a Gandhi like figure to lead them and attempt to non-violently overthrow their oppressors. Either way, many Palestinians will die.

Though it may be a set back, it's not a bad as you think. There are already plenty of UN Resolutions condemning the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. Heck, even without a single resolution, Israel's legal boundaries had already been established at its inception, so with that alone Palestine could fight a legal case. Right now the more Palestinians fight for their land through force, the more we ignore the legal basis for it and turn to Zionist rhetoric based mainly on anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudices. Should they stop fighting violently for it, it would make it more difficult to defend Israel, and make it easier to bring the legal case to the fore.

 

[petros]

The Holy land was Christian at one time....What ever happened to that?

 

[Corduroy]

Less than 5-6 years ago

Hamas claims Dimona attack - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

 

[earth_as_one]

It's not for lack of trying.

What difference does it make? If the suicide attack was directed at civilians, its a war crime. If the attack was directed at soldiers, its a tactic.

Its no different than the missiles and mortars militants fire at Israel on nearly a daily basis. If it lands near civilians, its a war crime. If it lands near soldiers its a tactic.

When a smart bomb takes out part of a university killing professors and students, its a war crime. When a it blows up a bunker full of arms, its a tactic.

The war criminals on both sides know when they are killing soldiers and when they are killing civilians.

The worst war criminals are the cowards who give the orders to commit war crimes. People on the front line know when their orders violate international law and they face a choice to commit or not commit war crimes.

I have nothing against soldiers who do their duty. I only condemn those who commit war crimes.

 

[taxslave]

We should choose sides. This isn't just a choice between which war criminals we like better, or which atrocities we will condemn and which we support. I'm on the side of Canadians. Our selfish best interests are not served by supporting any war crimes or crimes against humanity.

I equally condemn all war criminals, Palestinian and their allies and well as Israeli and their allies. But war criminals make up tiny minority on both sides.

Recent events in ths conflict:
I condemn firing missiles in the general direction of a city in the hope of randomly killing civilians.
I condemn herding an extended family into a single home... the entire neighborhood really, pounding it with heavy artillery fire, killing mostly women and children and then blocking medics and ambulances for three days.




Some people really aren't hearing my message. Why would you think that because I am against one side's war crimes, I must support the other side's war criminals.

Canadians have been manipulated into supporting war criminals. The flawed logic starts with coverage of one side's war crimes and one side's suffering. If you dig a little, you discover that both sides commit war crimes and both sides suffer. That's when you get to where you are. You believe a message that you only have a choice between two evils.

We have more than two choices. Choosing the side of civilians means not supporting war crimes or crimes against humanity.

Once you filter this conflict through that lense, its plain to see that the side with more money and bombs commits more war crimes than the other. I'm sure the other war criminals would do worse if they could. I am against both of these sides.

As recent events in Egypt demonstrated, the average person just wants freedom and justice. While Palestinians have neither, Israel won't have peace.

OK we will chose sides. I choose Israel since it is the only democracy in the region. Our best interests are supported by backing democracy rather than a bunch of feudal theocracies that murder anyone that dares to challenge their sick and twisted laws.

 

[petros]

Less than 5-6 years ago

Hamas claims Dimona attack - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Last Modified: 06 Feb 2008. 3 years...still a long time.

Dimona....isn't that were 300 nuke weapons are stored and Israel refuses to allow international inspectors to inventory and refuses to sign the anti-proliferation treaty?​

They sound like a nuclear rogue state.

 

[earth_as_one]

Less than 5-6 years ago

Hamas claims Dimona attack - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

More on Dimona, Israel

The Negev Nuclear Research Center is an Israeli nuclear installation located in the Negev desert, about thirteen kilometers to the south-east of the city of Dimona. The purpose of Dimona is widely assumed to be the manufacturing of nuclear weapons, and the majority of defense experts have concluded that it does in fact do so. It is also reported to manufacture depleted uranium for armor-piercing shells.

Negev Nuclear Research Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The locations could be a coincidence, but likely some people who live in Dimona, also work at the nuclear weapons lab.

 

[Colpy]

Rawanda wasn't genocide? Sudan? Kosovo? That's just the past 20 ****ig years ****head.

Scratch you head when you think instead of your ass.

Ah...oh brain dead one........I was sticking to the topic of genocide in the ME against the Palestinians by the Israelis.

As anyone with a fully attached brain stem would know from reading through the thread.

 

[petros]

Ah...oh brain dead one........I was sticking to the topic of genocide in the ME against the Palestinians by the Israelis.

As anyone with a fully attached brain stem would know from reading through the thread.

I wasn't. Still want to keep your vote for pro-genocide or have you re-thought your mistake?

 

[earth_as_one]

OK we will chose sides. I choose Israel since it is the only democracy in the region. Our best interests are supported by backing democracy rather than a bunch of feudal theocracies that murder anyone that dares to challenge their sick and twisted laws.

Hamas won the last Palestinian election in a land slide. International observers declared the elections free and fair.

The delegation concludes that, with the exception of limits placed on the number of voters whowere allowed to cast ballots in East Jerusalem, none of the shortcomings cited above had a material impact on the results. Consequently, the outcome should be considered to reflect the will of the people. Palestinians and the international community now look to the newly-elected leaders to put in place genuinely democratic institutions...

http://www.accessdemocracy.org/files/2068_ps_elect_012506.pdf

Hamas were denied their democratic mandate when the US and Israel armed the election losers triggering a civil war:

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever...

The Gaza Bombshell | Politics | Vanity Fair
Most of the arms shipped to Fatah in Gaza were intercepted by Hamas, and they managed to win in Gaza, but they lost in the West Bank where Palestinians are ruled by a corrupt oppressive pro-Israeli dictator Abbas, who has been exposed as a traitor by the Palestinian papers. He is guarded by at least 700 US trained and funded mercenaries.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-to-allow-abbas-security-forces-to-deploy-in-jenin-1.242592

When the US/Israel coup attempt failed in Gaza, Israel and their puppet in Egypt began the their crime against humanity, humanitarian food and medical aid blockade.

When Hamas and Israel agreed to a ceasefire, Hamas respected the ceasefire and arrested anyone who violated it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/10/idUSL103182282

Israel never observed the terms of the ceasefire. Instead they increased the severity of the blockade and launched a commando raid in Gaza the same day Barack Obama was elected US President killing several members of Hamas,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians-egypt

Setting off a series of reprisals and counter reprisals leading to what Israel called Operation Cast Lead just in time for Israeli elections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_legislative_election,_2009

So much for Palestinian democracy...

It looks like Egypt will soon become a free democracy despite Israel's attempts to support the dictator, leaving a pro-Israel dictatorship in Jordan and an anti-Israel dictatorship in Syria. Lebanon, Israel's neighbor to the north is also a democracy.

 

[darkbeaver]

the bargains would be those historys that the likes of darkbeaver spout........ just remember, you get what you pay for.

No gerry we don't get what we pay for, we pay for security we have none, we pay for honest politicians we have none, we pay for God , where is she,we pay for food that isn't and we pay for science that's fiction so your vulgar assertion that " you get what you pay for" is nothing but a worn out artifact of the western vernacular.

 

[petros]

Hamas won the last Palestinian election in a land slide. International observers declared the elections free and fair. They were denied their democratic mandate when the US and Israel armed the election losers triggering a civil war:
The Gaza Bombshell | Politics | Vanity Fair

How well do you think the Mossad created and backed Hamas will fair in the upcoming Palestine elections in September?

After all it is in Israel's best interests to keep the violence ongoing.