Krauthammer Tells Inconvenient Truth About Egypt

[earth_as_one]

Wars are always about gaining power through theft. People who start wars need some means to manipulate the masses. Religion has been exploited repeatedly over the centuries, but more recently the exploitation tool of choice has been irrational fear.

For example, the Bush regime deliberated created mass hysteria regarding Iraq's non-existent WMD stockpiles to manipulate the masses into supporting an unprovoked war which has killed hundreds of thousands of people (including thousands of Americans) and turned millions of people into refugees. Really the war was about seizing control of Iraq's oil wealth and creating a base of operations in the middle east for future wars. BTW, starting an unprovoked war is a war crime.

Its about time we the people in the west did something about our war criminals. Unfortunately far too many people belong to the manipulated masses. You can tell who they are. They are people who have the same opinions as those expressed in the MSM. They don't form opinions on their own. They get their opinions from cable news and idiots like Rush Limbaugh. These people can't think for themselves and buy all the lies their idiot box tells them, even though the lies defy critical thought. These people still think the Iraq war was just a minor misunderstanding based on faulty intel. They support the war anyway since it liberated the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator. But when the Egyptian people tried to liberate themselves from their brutal dictator, they supported stability (code for keeping the brutal dictator in power) and irrationally fear Egypt becoming a free democracy. These are the same people who condemn Iran's last elections as fraudulent, yet couldn't tell you what evidence supports that allegation. They believe Iraq and Afghanistan are now successful democracies, yet are ignorant that elections in those countries are blatantly fraudulent. They believe all 5 million Palestinians are terrorists and support Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The manipulated masses have always been the biggest obstacle to justice and peace throughout history.

 

[petros]

If you are a Christian Conservative or a Muzzie Conservative or Zionist Heeb you can all take a flying **** at a rolling donut.

 

[DaSleeper]

If you are a Christian Conservative or a Muzzie Conservative or Zionist Heeb you can all take a flying **** at a rolling donut.

Political correctness defines it as an aeronautical intercourse on a motivated pastry.;-)

 

[petros]

Political correctness defines it as an aeronautical intercourse on a motivated pastry.;-)

I know those two words, poiltical and correct but I never knew they could be used together in a sentence or phrase.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

CK is right here, time to ditch the autocrats all over the Mideast and support democracy because its a good thing to do.

"Our job is to strengthen the democrats, of which there are many in Egypt but who need help, organization and assistance so they can challenge the Brotherhood and create a democracy that is actually going to live and not be one man, one vote, one time."


Time for Harper and other Western leaders to support democracy in the Mideast. I mean, what are they waiting for? The future is uncertain in Egypt and if we don't give them encouragement we will have only ourselves to blame if the MB take over and start their ignorant "great satan" chants.
​

 

[Colpy]

CK is right here, time to ditch the autocrats all over the Mideast and support democracy because its a good thing to do.

"Our job is to strengthen the democrats, of which there are many in Egypt but who need help, organization and assistance so they can challenge the Brotherhood and create a democracy that is actually going to live and not be one man, one vote, one time."


Time for Harper and other Western leaders to support democracy in the Mideast. I mean, what are they waiting for? The future is uncertain in Egypt and if we don't give them encouragement we will have only ourselves to blame if the MB take over and start their ignorant "great satan" chants.
​

Harper and the United States do support democracy in the Middle East........they are both strong allies of Israel.

 

[TenPenny]

There are other countries in the middle east.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Harper and the United States do support democracy in the Middle East........they are both strong allies of Israel.

Sounds a bit like, "We support Israel, don't give us any more info thanks." We have our own perfection in the Jewish state. So like all "democracies" in Asia, it is a major work in progress. Israel like other countries and its neighbours, could use more democracy.

 

[darkbeaver]

Krauthammer is talking dung heap permanently spewing hate for Islam and anyone who does not support the Dung state of Israel. It's very heartening to to see and hear of the distress in Israel caused by the long downtrodden Egyptians expelling the puppets of Israel. I hope that Egyptians are wise to the staged colour revolutions scripted in Israeli think tanks. Whatever the imeadiate future holds it will not be peace. Peace would mean the effective end of the Rothchild Kingdom of Israel. How many millions have died to keep those filthy rich bastards dumping in gold toilets? Just add up all the dead mentioned in this thread. Everyone of them died at the hands of Mammon.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Yes it is kind of odd how Israel is able to prosper in a hostile neighbourhood while its neighbours stagnate. But even a religious democracy like Israel-the Jewish state, is better than being ruled by an autocrat that stifles an entire population. A nation needs politics to break out for porgress, even if they are surrounded by enemies. Long fixated on Israel, the people in Arab countries are going to start getting plenty of news on many subjects, that can only be good.

 

[darkbeaver]

It is odd, they say it's because they are democratic, they also say that they are the most moral aspirants for peace in the region.The wealthy elitist installed Rabbinical rule in Israel clothed in the facade of democracy may fool the ordinary long propagandized man on the street in the west but it fools nobody who's had the Israeli barbarians for neighbours.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Democracy is a very effective system of governance. You utilize the talents of your people, which can allow you to be stronger than your neighbours and take liberties with them.

There's a great thaw in the world and no one knows how things will look with the break up. Once you lack enemies, systems can collapse. If everyone isn't calling your enemy a bad person any more, then doubts arise, a shift can occur as the old certainites melt away. What seemed impossible in the past suddenly becomes ordinary stuff. Israel now has new issues to deal with. Like the USA, it can longer steer and determine issues like it once did.

The good news for Israel right now is that Egyptians want more goodies from life, and that hardly includes Israel at all. Bankers are striking for better pay. Who would have thought of that a month ago? Arabs are becoming economic agitators, When we thought all they thought about was politics, Israel, USA, Bush, Hamas, and Mossad.

 

[darkbeaver]

"Democracy is a very effective system of governance" Like Ghandi said "western democracy was a good idea and it might happen some day. Those at the top of the chunk called Canada don't particularly care who gets elected cuz in the end they all got to shop at the company store. I remember years of instruction about the marvelous democracy practiced in the enlightened west particularly that great shining beacon of justice and freedom the USA, well that was all bull**** so we could feel good about ourselves while we help rape the poor of the world with the big dogs. Just like you say dumpthemonarchy we have taken great liberties with our neighbours and we continue to.
"There's a great thaw in the world and no one knows how things will look with the break up."
I think it depends on how well and quickly the loyal protest leaders can identify and eliminate the external elements in their various organizations. Everyday there are calls in the mainstream media for the west to lend a hand in institution building within Egypt. What a surprise,it's exactly what they wanted, a steerable global revolution to democracy, which they/we own. IMHO

 

[petros]

Harper and the United States do support democracy in the Middle East........they are both strong allies of Israel.

And the Bases are loaded in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Praxius]

Krauthammer is talking dung heap permanently spewing hate for Islam and anyone who does not support the Dung state of Israel. It's very heartening to to see and hear of the distress in Israel caused by the long downtrodden Egyptians expelling the puppets of Israel. I hope that Egyptians are wise to the staged colour revolutions scripted in Israeli think tanks. Whatever the imeadiate future holds it will not be peace. Peace would mean the effective end of the Rothchild Kingdom of Israel. How many millions have died to keep those filthy rich bastards dumping in gold toilets? Just add up all the dead mentioned in this thread. Everyone of them died at the hands of Mammon.

What's more, from the very first day of protests in Egypt, if you peered into Israel's media, they were covering 24/7 and constantly spinning it to being a very bad & horrible thing to be happening...... very little coverage of why it was all happening, in fact, most of the coverage within Israel was all about what it means to Israel and those who live in Israel.

They were basically spinning the whole situation as a fearmongering nightmare which would spell the end of their nation and their people......

Israelis view the street protests in Egypt with both fear and indifference

In Israel, media coverage of the Egyptian uprising has been superficial at best. Most Israelis know little about the Arab world and are indifferent to the issues that brought Egyptians to the streets; instead, they focus on their fear that the Muslim Brotherhood, which is perceived as hostile to Israel, would fill a power vacuum left by the Mubarak regime.

Most Israelis didn’t see the protests in Egypt coming. The protests rocking Egypt for the past three days have left many Israeli spectators and analysts confused. If the downfall of Mubarak was supposed to mean a takeover of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, why don’t they have a prominent role in the unrest? If the only demands Arabs can articulate are about jobs and food prices, why are protesters demanding the removal of the regime? But the question that hung above it all was “what does this mean for Israel?”...........

........ In discussions I’ve had with people since the beginning of protests in Egypt, several points became clear. The most obvious one is that the majority of Israelis don’t really care about what is happening in the countries neighboring them, at least not until events become significant enough to potentially affect Israel. Another important phenomenon is that the Israeli media managed to cover the protests without addressing the core of the issue, which are the demands of the Egyptian people that have brought them out into the streets and made them willing to face harsh treatment from the police. Instead, the Israeli media either discussed how this affects Israel and how violent all the images flashing on TV seem.

Israel’s lack of understanding of the Arab world is significant and is a result of numerous factors, including the protracted Arab-Israeli conflict though which the Arab world is viewed in Israel, extreme focus on how outside events affect Israel and not on what’s actually going on mixed with paranoia, and good old racism. The reason Israelis didn’t see these protests coming (as well as the fall of Ben Ali in Tunisia) is a result of this lack of understanding. In the Israeli mind, the so-called “Arab street” is connected to violence, anti-Israeli and anti-US sentiment (which are kept at bay by the rulers), poverty, conservatism and Islamism. What never enters into the Israeli discussions about the “Arab street” is the yearning of Arabs for freedom and a dignified living of which they’ve been deprived for decades. Israelis cannot imagine that Arabs, just like them, would like to have freedom of expression and assembly and that they would be willing to fight and die to achieve those rights.........

...... What many Israelis don’t seem to think is that while Israel benefits from cooperation with Egypt, especially in the counter-terrorism efforts, there is a moral problem with favoring our interests over the interests of millions of Arabs who are being silenced, tortured and murdered so that the mirage of stability can be maintained for a little longer. But even if one thinks that morals have no place in politics, even if we are only to consider Israel’s interests, it is clear by now that relying on unpopular leaders who repress their people will not contribute to stability. Those concerned with the Muslim Brotherhood tend to ignore the fact that the relative appeal of the movement is a result of the decades of repression and the corruption of the Mubarak regime. The threat of the Muslim Brotherhood is also overstated - many so-called “moderate” regimes in the Middle East are trumping up the Islamist threat to justify the lack of freedom in their countries and in order to present themselves as the safe alternative. As the events in Tunisia and Egypt have proven, the Islamists aren’t the only alternative to a repressive secular regime.........

And it's because of such media coverage mentioned above that Egyptians started shutting down and/or attacking reporters during protests, because they felt they were being bias and not telling the truth of what was really going on....... I heard Anderson Cooper got the crap beaten out of him over there. I wonder how he was trying to spin it.

[VIDEO] Anderson Cooper -- Attacked in Egypt | TMZ.com

Anderson Cooper and his CNN news crew claim they were punched, kicked and shoved by a violent mob of pro-Mubarak supporters in Cairo early this morning.

Cooper claims he and his team were trying to get to a spot in between the two sides of protesters in Tahrir Square -- when they were attacked.

Cooper claims the mob tried to break his team's camera -- because they didn't want to be on film -- when the violence escalated and men began to punch members of the news crew in the head.

Anderson explained, "The instinct is try to punch back ... but in a situation like that you really can't because that just inflames the crowd all the more ... so all we could do is just try to walk as quickly as possible, stay together and seek a safe location which is where we are now."

By Cooper's own words, he said they were trying to get in the centre area of the protests called the "No-Mans Land" or something like that when they were attacked. This area was designated in order to keep both sides of the protests separated to a degree...... it was called a no-man's land for a reason and he and his crew decided to saunter into that area.

WTF did he expect was going to happen, or did he just think that because he was American, the rules didn't apply to him as well?

 

[Johnny Utah]

YouTube - Walk Like An Egyptian Video Original
According to the MSM we're all Egyptians now..

 

[Praxius]

YouTube - Walk Like An Egyptian Video Original
According to the MSM we're all Egyptians now..

Mmmmm, 80's Catsuits and tight skirts.... say what you will about their dated fashions, but I wouldn't mind a VIP backstage pass to see them....... They can walk like Egyptians all they want...... and I'll show them my Canadian Totem Pole.

Though not now..... back then..... right now, they're almost as old as my mom

*sideshow bob shudders*

 

[Colpy]

And 78 Million -/+ people died in the span of just 6 years during WWII..... 100 Million dead in the span of 100 years is a drop in the pale by comparison, as that number was almost reached in less then a decade.



And add up all those killed in the name of the Christian God over the last 2000+ years. People claimed as witches and wizards, those who wouldn't accept Christianity and were tortured and killed because they were possessed by the devil, the Crusades, Homosexuals & other minorities, couples who married outside of their own race, couples who cheated on their spouses, couples who had sex and refused to marry, Women who wouldn't accept their role in society, the list goes on and on......

Oh but if I remember correctly, the counter-argument for all of that is "Oh well Christianity hasn't done any of that for a long time, so those don't count anymore."

Sorry, but if you're going to try and tally up all of what Islam did for the last 1300 years, you have to do the same for Christianity for the last 2000+ years, and when they're put side by side, the picture doesn't look so pretty does it?

That says a lot about a so-called peaceful religion....... so please, don't give me that crap about how horrible Muslims are compared to Christians, because they ain't got sh*t on Christianity's brutality.

Hell, Christians invented most of the methods of torture we know of today and throughout history.



That works both ways, m'dear.

Ya need to polish up on your history a bit...

First of all, the maximum estimate of the death toll in the Second World War was 60 million. In other words, the humanist religion of communism managed to murder tens of millions more that the worst conflict in the history of mankind. Quite an accomplishment.

Secondly, the witch trials may have seen as many as 100,000 executed.........in 300 years. And most of those had very little to do with the Church. It was usually a case of secular authorities using the excuse to remove unwanteds.

The Christian church executed people for sexual deviance? Got a link? Maybe you have Islam and Christianity confused.......or haven't you heard of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Kinda a little different than Islam, huh????

The essential difference between Islam and Christianity:

The Christian that murders in the name of his religion does so in defiance of his religion and his God.

The Muslim that murders in the name of his religion does so at the implicit instruction of his religion and his God.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

"Democracy is a very effective system of governance" Like Ghandi said "western democracy was a good idea and it might happen some day. Those at the top of the chunk called Canada don't particularly care who gets elected cuz in the end they all got to shop at the company store. I remember years of instruction about the marvelous democracy practiced in the enlightened west particularly that great shining beacon of justice and freedom the USA, well that was all bull**** so we could feel good about ourselves while we help rape the poor of the world with the big dogs. Just like you say dumpthemonarchy we have taken great liberties with our neighbours and we continue to.
"There's a great thaw in the world and no one knows how things will look with the break up."
I think it depends on how well and quickly the loyal protest leaders can identify and eliminate the external elements in their various organizations. Everyday there are calls in the mainstream media for the west to lend a hand in institution building within Egypt. What a surprise,it's exactly what they wanted, a steerable global revolution to democracy, which they/we own. IMHO

Democracies do rotten things to weaker non-democratic countries because they can. So, that means non-democratic countries should become democratic to stop the abuse. In international relations it's all about power, still.

NGOs seem to spend the time and money building institutions in 3rd world counties while our govts continue to back repressive regimes. With Egypt this strategy is looking like a loser due to problems such as

1) the people not wanting to be geopolitical pawns
2) it appears hypocritical, talk of democracy but do little to support it (consider NGOs to be like legal aid, political leaders highly paid lawyers)
3) your own sonofabitch suddenly vanishes

"Democracy is a very effective system of governance" Like Ghandi said "western democracy was a good idea and it might happen some day. Those at the top of the chunk called Canada don't particularly care who gets elected cuz in the end they all got to shop at the company store. I remember years of instruction about the marvelous democracy practiced in the enlightened west particularly that great shining beacon of justice and freedom the USA, well that was all bull**** so we could feel good about ourselves while we help rape the poor of the world with the big dogs. Just like you say dumpthemonarchy we have taken great liberties with our neighbours and we continue to.
"There's a great thaw in the world and no one knows how things will look with the break up."
I think it depends on how well and quickly the loyal protest leaders can identify and eliminate the external elements in their various organizations. Everyday there are calls in the mainstream media for the west to lend a hand in institution building within Egypt. What a surprise,it's exactly what they wanted, a steerable global revolution to democracy, which they/we own. IMHO

Democracies do rotten things to weaker non-democratic countries because they can. So, that means non-democratic countries should become democratic to stop the abuse. In international relations it's all about power, still.

NGOs seem to spend the time and money building institutions in 3rd world counties while our govts continue to back repressive regimes. With Egypt this strategy is looking like a loser due to problems such as

1) the people not wanting to be geopolitical pawns
2) it appears hypocritical, talk of democracy but do little to support it (consider NGOs to be like legal aid, political leaders highly paid lawyers)
3) your own sonofabitch suddenly vanishes

 

[Praxius]

Ya need to polish up on your history a bit...

First of all, the maximum estimate of the death toll in the Second World War was 60 million.

That's a pretty bold statement to be making since the majority of experts on the subject are not 100% sure on the actual total.....

Based on what records you go by, it's between 50 - 78 million, which is why I added the "-/+" after it, ie: give or take. Besides running around online to figure out who or what has it right, just by wiki's recorded listings of known deaths during WWII, they estimate it to be around 62-78 million by merely adding up the deaths from the records noted:

"World War II casualty statistics vary greatly. Estimates of total dead range from 50 million to over 70 million.[1] The sources cited on this page document an estimated death toll in World War II of 62 to 78 million, making it the deadliest war ever. When scholarly sources differ on the number of deaths in a country, a range of war losses is given, in order to inform readers that the death toll is disputed. Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war."

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not about to make this into a debate about how many actually died in WWII, the point being is that based on % and being only in the span of 6 years, even if it was only 50 million, it's still a lot more in a short time compared to 100 million killed by Communisim in the span of a century.

In other words, the humanist religion of communism managed to murder tens of millions more that the worst conflict in the history of mankind. Quite an accomplishment.

Nice skewed perspective, because if WWII lasted for 100 years as well and continued to kill people as the same rate, a hell of a lot more people would have died...... which is why your argument about Communism is a tad moot.

Secondly, the witch trials may have seen as many as 100,000 executed.........in 300 years. And most of those had very little to do with the Church. It was usually a case of secular authorities using the excuse to remove unwanteds.

..... By using God as their excuse...... spin it anyway you wish, whenever someone uses their religion or faith to kill someone, regardless of their underlying reasons, it's another notch against Christianity.

Which is exactly what you're trying to attempt by using every death at the hands of an extremist Muslim against Islam as a whole and painting them with the same brush. Don't like it when people do it towards Christianity? Then don't do it against other religions.

The Christian church executed people for sexual deviance? Got a link? Maybe you have Islam and Christianity confused.......or haven't you heard of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Oh I've heard of it...... too bad nobody ever put it into practice except in fairy tales. Whether the Church itself executed or tortured homosexuals (which they did) or it was at the hands of the church's followers based on their skewed beliefs of Christianity and what their God wants, it's all the same.

Link?

Sure, here's what is said in both Jewish and Christian Books/Church:
Murder in the Bible

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

And it goes on...... Now before you even attempt to claim this is all Jewish mumbo jumbo and has nothing to do with Christianity, keep in mind that #1 - Christianity is descendant from the Jewish faith and #2 - Roman Catholics, Protestants and Eastern Orthodox follow many of these teachings still today, including Leviticus and Exodus.

Books of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The point being is that if these were the original teachings over the centuries, even if most current churches don't cover the above often in their teachings, these were the words of God and for all followers to abide by..... which means there were probably countless, undocumented tortured and murders of homosexuals, minorities, women, men, children, people claimed or accused of being witches or wizards, and many more...... I say undocumented because of how far back Christianity goes and the quality of documentation and record keeping that didn't exist that far back.

But I suppose to you it's "See no evil, hear no evil", AKA: if you don't know about it, it never happened.

Kinda a little different than Islam, huh????

You tell me...... Just because I say to everyone "Don't shoot people, but rather, treat then with kindness" and then I go and shoot someone, what I previously said doesn't excuse my actions or somehow prove myself to being a kind and gentle person who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Simply put, I don't give two craps about words and old quotes, I care about actions..... and Christianity has had plenty of action over the centuries.

The essential difference between Islam and Christianity:

The Christian that murders in the name of his religion does so in defiance of his religion and his God.

The Muslim that murders in the name of his religion does so at the implicit instruction of his religion and his God.

Obviously that depends on who you ask and what books you read.

The reality of it is, Christianity has revised and re-worded their books and teachings so many times in order to try and cover up their bloody history and ignorance, to me, it makes them worse then Muslims....... Christians will just murder you in the name of their God while smiling and then tell you that it was for a totally different reason.

..... now how about bringing this debate back to the original topic, which was Egypt and their quest for Democracy? How about debating the very very slim and remote chance of the M-Brotherhood gaining power in Egypt, when in fact, they have very little to do with the protests in the first place and most Egyptians want democracy........ which many probably know that an Islamic run State won't provide them with much more freedom then what they just had.

However, if we decide to meddle in their personal affairs, chances are we'll be responsible for them changing their minds and going for a party that hates our guts like they'll end up doing because of our meddling...... ie: creating what some in here are worrying and fearmongering about.